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Post by zarono on Sept 27, 2019 21:37:15 GMT -5
Interesting article. There are some sections, certain scientists such as the Swedish behavioural scientist Magnus Soderland ( from the link that you provided ) who are open to the idea. ‘As global temperatures continue to rise, Söderlund said in a talk at the Gastro Summit in Stockholm, the consequences for agriculture could cause food to become more scarce, which might force humans to consider alternative forms of nourishment. Those sources might include insects like grasshoppers or worms, but they could also include corpses, Söderlund said. By gradually getting accustomed to the taste of our own flesh, he added, humans might come to view cannibalism as less taboo.’ Richard Dawkins also threw around the idea of growing meat from harvested human cells. Some hold that Neanderthals were driven to cannibalism in western Europe after a dramatic spike in global temperatures wiped out large numbers of mammoths, bison and reindeer. ‘But of course, the suggestion of cannibalism is rife with problems. Genevieve Guenther, director of End Climate Silence, a nonprofit that advocates for more representation of climate change in the media, told Business Insider that “to suggest that cannibalism is a solution to climate change is about as bad as climate denial itself.” She added: “I don’t think that it should be even entertained in any seriousness, but exposed as a kind of propaganda that only makes it harder for us to transform the world in the ways that we need to.”’ Myself, I have to concur with Guenther on that one, finding the idea of cannibalism repugnant on a few levels. The real horror of Soylent Green is that the people were never given the choice of cannibalism or starvation, it was made for them by their leaders and corporations out of desperation to keep the masses fed. 99% of normal people are going to reject cannibalism in any form but if you tell them it's made from plankton and process it into a convenient cracker form, if it tastes ok they are going to scarf it up. Who knows, after a generation or so of eating it they might not even care it's made from people.
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Post by kemp on Sept 28, 2019 9:47:19 GMT -5
It is true that cannibalism seems to have been practised in the most desperate of situations, certain famines, times of exteme deprivations such as when cities are cut off from supplies due to war, but cannibalism was never sanctioned by nation states.
There have been some cases of certain New Guinean and Melanesian tribes practising cannibalism for cultural reasons, and the Japanese soldiers of WW2 were notorious for taking part in a form of ritual cannibalism which even included keeping prisoners alive for a few days, amputating limbs as needed.
However, I seriously doubt that in the face of extinction where most of the ‘edible’ species have been wiped out, that the human population will keep growing exponentially, people courting and mating in the normal way just to produce ‘human fodder’ for the kitchen table, in whatever way you package it, at least not as a general global practise, although it might be ‘entertained’ in very localised areas fallen to depravity.
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Post by zarono on Sept 29, 2019 8:05:22 GMT -5
It is true that cannibalism seems to have been practised in the most desperate of situations, certain famines, times of exteme deprivations such as when cities are cut off from supplies due to war, but cannibalism was never sanctioned by nation states. There have been some cases of certain New Guinean and Melanesian tribes practising cannibalism for cultural reasons, and the Japanese soldiers of WW2 were notorious for taking part in a form of ritual cannibalism which even included keeping prisoners alive for a few days, amputating limbs as needed. However, I seriously doubt that in the face of extinction where most of the ‘edible’ species have been wiped out, that the human population will keep growing exponentially, people courting and mating in the normal way just to produce ‘human fodder’ for the kitchen table, in whatever way you package it, at least not as a general global practise, although it might be ‘entertained’ in very localised areas fallen to depravity. I don't think the cannibalistic situation in Soylent Green was created to continue population growth, population had likely reached it max and food production was nearly exhausted (almost all resources were apparently depleted, poor old Edward G. Robinson had to peddle a generator to make a bit of electricity). Population had likely begun to decline to rapidly from old age, violence, and disease (we also don't know what state the rest of the world was, maybe already collapsed), food riots were common in the city. Euthanasia centers were provided as a convenience to the sick and elderly ("going home") and somewhere along the line somebody in the corporation crunched the numbers and said "Hey were can process the dead into protein and use it to supplement the food supply until population comes back into balance with food production", the population was completely unaware of what Soylent Green was and likely never became aware since it was only the nearly dead Heston ranting at the end to a small group of people in the church. A interesting book about the collapse of human civilization due to ecological fanaticism (the opposite of Soylent Green which all about consumption) and the strange form it takes rising again is Keith Mano's "The Bridge" (1973) worth a read if you can find it.
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Post by sorcerer on Sept 29, 2019 9:16:14 GMT -5
A interesting book about the collapse of human civilization due to ecological fanaticism (the opposite of Soylent Green which all about consumption) and the strange form it takes rising again is Keith Mano's "The Bridge" (1973) worth a read if you can find it. Where would one find it? And, would you be interested in providing a bit more information? The idea of civilization collapsing due to ecological fanaticism is both counterintuitive and intriguing.
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Post by kemp on Sept 29, 2019 9:16:23 GMT -5
It is true that cannibalism seems to have been practised in the most desperate of situations, certain famines, times of exteme deprivations such as when cities are cut off from supplies due to war, but cannibalism was never sanctioned by nation states. There have been some cases of certain New Guinean and Melanesian tribes practising cannibalism for cultural reasons, and the Japanese soldiers of WW2 were notorious for taking part in a form of ritual cannibalism which even included keeping prisoners alive for a few days, amputating limbs as needed. However, I seriously doubt that in the face of extinction where most of the ‘edible’ species have been wiped out, that the human population will keep growing exponentially, people courting and mating in the normal way just to produce ‘human fodder’ for the kitchen table, in whatever way you package it, at least not as a general global practise, although it might be ‘entertained’ in very localised areas fallen to depravity. I don't think the cannibalistic situation in Soylent Green was created to continue population growth, population had likely reached it max and food production was nearly exhausted (almost all resources were apparently depleted, poor old Edward G. Robinson had to peddle a generator to make a bit of electricity). Population had likely begun to decline to rapidly from old age, violence, and disease (we also don't know what state the rest of the world was, maybe already collapsed), food riots were common in the city. Euthanasia centers were provided as a convenience to the sick and elderly ("going home") and somewhere along the line somebody in the corporation crunched the numbers and said "Hey were can process the dead into protein and use it to supplement the food supply until population comes back into balance with food production", the population was completely unaware of what Soylent Green was and likely never became aware since it was only the nearly dead Heston ranting at the end to a small group of people in the church. A interesting book about the collapse of human civilization due to ecological fanaticism (the opposite of Soylent Green which all about consumption) and the strange form it takes rising again is Keith Mano's "The Bridge" (1973) worth a read if you can find it. I suppose the cannibalistic situation enforced upon the populace depicted in Soylent Green can be seen as another facet in the road to total civilisation collapse. The fact that the population is unaware is more realistic than if that was not the case. I enjoyed the movie. Following your recommendation I have tried to find ( online search ) The Bridge in my local library and pop culture stores in the CBD, but to no avail. I think I will need to do a bit of my usual old fashioned searches in the second hand book stores, plenty of good ones in Melbourne. Read a synopsis on this one, basically set in a future time where the government wants people to eliminate themselves for the good of the natural world around them, and a guy who wants to bring back the old world again. With all the eco debates going on these days the premise of the story is probably not so farfetched, although there has been a conservative back lash of sorts.
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Post by zarono on Sept 29, 2019 10:30:51 GMT -5
I don't think the cannibalistic situation in Soylent Green was created to continue population growth, population had likely reached it max and food production was nearly exhausted (almost all resources were apparently depleted, poor old Edward G. Robinson had to peddle a generator to make a bit of electricity). Population had likely begun to decline to rapidly from old age, violence, and disease (we also don't know what state the rest of the world was, maybe already collapsed), food riots were common in the city. Euthanasia centers were provided as a convenience to the sick and elderly ("going home") and somewhere along the line somebody in the corporation crunched the numbers and said "Hey were can process the dead into protein and use it to supplement the food supply until population comes back into balance with food production", the population was completely unaware of what Soylent Green was and likely never became aware since it was only the nearly dead Heston ranting at the end to a small group of people in the church. A interesting book about the collapse of human civilization due to ecological fanaticism (the opposite of Soylent Green which all about consumption) and the strange form it takes rising again is Keith Mano's "The Bridge" (1973) worth a read if you can find it. I suppose the cannibalistic situation enforced upon the populace depicted in Soylent Green can be seen as another facet in the road to total civilisation collapse. The fact that the population is unaware is more realistic than if that was not the case. I enjoyed the movie. Following your recommendation I have tried to find ( online search ) The Bridge in my local library and pop culture stores in the CBD, but to no avail. I think I will need to do a bit of my usual old fashioned searches in the second hand book stores, plenty of good ones in Melbourne. Read a synopsis on this one, basically set in a future time where the government wants people to eliminate themselves for the good of the natural world around them, and a guy who wants to bring back the old world again. With all the eco debates going on these days the premise of the story is probably not so farfetched, although there has been a conservative back lash of sorts. You are lucky, brick and mortar used bookstores are becoming scarce in my corner of the world, even a lot of the thrift stores have stopped selling used books. I gave away my copy of The Bridge years ago and haven't run across it since. Here's another potential catalyst for the collapse of civilization that ties in with the whole fragile power grid/food production doom scenario: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859The cascade effect of a severely damaged power/digital communications grid interfering with just in time food delivery leads to food riots and widespread chaos.
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Post by zarono on Sept 29, 2019 10:35:55 GMT -5
A interesting book about the collapse of human civilization due to ecological fanaticism (the opposite of Soylent Green which all about consumption) and the strange form it takes rising again is Keith Mano's "The Bridge" (1973) worth a read if you can find it. Where would one find it? And, would you be interested in providing a bit more information? The idea of civilization collapsing due to ecological fanaticism is both counterintuitive and intriguing. It's hard to find, but I'm sure turns up on ebay or amazon. Here's a pretty good synopsis: hadleyblog.blogspot.com/2007/09/crossing-bridge.htmlFor something more recent in a similar vein you might find this interesting, not about the collapse of civilization but still a good story by a gentleman who calls himself Zerohplovecraft: zerohplovecraft.wordpress.com/2019/09/28/the-green-new-deal/
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Post by kemp on Sept 30, 2019 6:44:00 GMT -5
You are lucky, brick and mortar used bookstores are becoming scarce in my corner of the world, even a lot of the thrift stores have stopped selling used books. I gave away my copy of The Bridge years ago and haven't run across it since. Here's another potential catalyst for the collapse of civilization that ties in with the whole fragile power grid/food production doom scenario: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859The cascade effect of a severely damaged power/digital communications grid interfering with just in time food delivery leads to food riots and widespread chaos. I posted something about the Carrington Event on the catastrophism thread. The 1859 solar storm created an electromagnetic storm for two days that played havoc with the infant communication network of the time. There were reports of telegraph wires bursting into flames, telegraph machines with scorched printouts and compasses that went haywire. Deuce had posted a link to an article on a solar flare event of the same magnitude that missed the Earth by over a week in 2012. nypost.com/2014/07/24/solar-flare-nearly-destroyed-earth-two-years-ago-nasa/Dependent as we are on communication technology these days I would imagine that a massive solar flare would be catastrophic to the modern infrastructure of our times. What we would get would be massive power outages and disruption of communication services, damage to electronics, damage to computer devices and the net going down. Modern digital technology is highly susceptible to disruption by super solar storms, perhaps even a magnetic pole shift due to shifting ice caps would do the same damage. It would cripple a civilisation of our magnitude which is costly to run as it is, and has all sorts of dependent complexity, a civilisation already under all sorts of pressure to maintain this level of progress.
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Post by sorcerer on Sept 30, 2019 16:33:22 GMT -5
Indeed; I keep my files backed up on a hard drive wrapped in aluminum foil.
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Post by charleshelm on Sept 30, 2019 19:24:51 GMT -5
I don't think ice caps or polar caps affect the magnetic filed orientation, but the fossil record shows it swaps form time to time and there are those concerned about the effects. It's hard to say how our modern electronics woudl react to a major solar storm compared to the 1800s but there is massive potential for trouble.
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Post by kemp on Oct 1, 2019 5:45:32 GMT -5
I suppose there is no way of really knowing until it happens.
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Post by kemp on Oct 1, 2019 6:19:02 GMT -5
Then again, ‘On March 13, 1989 the entire province of Quebec, Canada suffered an electrical power blackout.’ On Friday March 10, 1989 astronomers witnessed a powerful explosion on the sun. Within minutes, tangled magnetic forces on the sun had released a billion-ton cloud of gas. It was like the energy of thousands of nuclear bombs exploding at the same time. The storm cloud rushed out from the sun, straight towards Earth, at a million miles an hour. The solar flare that accompanied the outburst immediately caused short-wave radio interference, including the jamming of radio signals from Radio Free Europe into Russia. It was thought that the signals had been jammed by the Kremlin, but it was only the sun acting up!’ On the evening of Monday, March 12 the vast cloud of solar plasma (a gas of electrically charged particles) finally struck Earth's magnetic field. The violence of this 'geomagnetic storm' caused spectacular 'northern lights' that could be seen as far south as Florida and Cuba. The magnetic disturbance was incredibly intense. It actually created electrical currents in the ground beneath much of North America. Just after 2:44 a.m. on March 13, the currents found a weakness in the electrical power grid of Quebec. In less than 2 minutes, the entire Quebec power grid lost power. During the 12-hour blackout that followed, millions of people suddenly found themselves in dark office buildings and underground pedestrian tunnels, and installed elevators. Most people woke up to cold homes for breakfast. The blackout also closed schools and businesses, kept the Montreal Metro shut during the morning rush hour, and closed Dorval Airport. The Quebec Blackout was by no means a local event. Some of the U.S. electrical utilities had their own cliffhanger problems to deal with. New York Power lost 150 megawatts the moment the Quebec power grid went down. The New England Power Pool lost 1,410 megawatts at about the same time. Service to 96 electrical utilities in New England was interrupted while other reserves of electrical power were brought online. Luckily, the U.S. had the power to spare at the time…but just barely. Across the United States from coast to coast, over 200 power grid problems erupted within minutes of the start of the March 13 storm. Fortunately none of these caused a blackout. In space, some satellites actually tumbled out of control for several hours. NASA's TDRS-1 communication satellite recorded over 250 anomalies as high-energy particles invaded the satellite's sensitive electronics. Even the Space Shuttle Discovery was having its own mysterious problems. A sensor on one of the tanks supplying hydrogen to a fuel cell was showing unusually high pressure readings on March 13. The problem went away just as mysteriously after the solar storm subsided.’ www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/sun_darkness.html
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Post by kemp on Oct 2, 2019 7:18:59 GMT -5
Charleton Heston appeared in a another movie with a post apocalypse setting, The Omega Man, set in a near desolate Los Angeles in a time when most of the world’s population has been wiped out by a plague. Heston plays a scientist who has rendered himself immune with a vaccine, trying to survive against a cult like band of nocturnal mutants. It was adapted from Richard Matheson’s novel ‘I Am Legend’ , and adapted again as a movie in 2007 starring Wil Smith. In this case it is a plague that virtually wipes out humanity and destroys human civilisation. Apart from the mutants, probably not that far fetched if you consider that the infamous Black Death or Great Plague wiped out 30 to 60% of Europe's population in the 1300's, reducing the world's population from 475 million to 350 - 375 million in the 14th century. It took 200 years for the world population to recover to its previous level. Small outbreaks of the bubonic plague appeared until the 19th century.
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Post by zarono on Oct 2, 2019 12:12:46 GMT -5
Charleton Heston appeared in a another movie with a post apocalypse setting, The Omega Man, set in a near desolate Los Angeles in a time when most of the world’s population has been wiped out by a plague. Heston plays a scientist who has rendered himself immune with a vaccine, trying to survive against a cult like band of nocturnal mutants. It was adapted from Richard Matheson’s novel ‘I Am Legend’ , and adapted again as a movie in 2007 starring Wil Smith. In this case it is a plague that virtually wipes out humanity and destroys human civilisation. Apart from the mutants, probably not that far fetched if you consider that the infamous Black Death or Great Plague wiped out 30 to 60% of Europe's population in the 1300's, reducing the world's population from 475 million to 350 - 375 million in the 14th century. It took 200 years for the world population to recover to its previous level. Small outbreaks of the bubonic plague appeared until the 19th century. Great movie! The Spanish Flu of 1918 killed somewhere between 50 to 100 million, if something like that got unleashed in modern times it could be "the end of the world as we know it". International travel would spread it like wildfire and the resultant panic would mean the system collapses as people "dig in" and stop going to work or participating in society. Richard Preston's "The Hot Zone" and Laurie Garrett's "The Coming Plague" are both must reads if you are interested in this subject.
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Post by Char-Vell on Oct 2, 2019 12:39:19 GMT -5
Charleton Heston appeared in a another movie with a post apocalypse setting, The Omega Man, set in a near desolate Los Angeles in a time when most of the world’s population has been wiped out by a plague. Heston plays a scientist who has rendered himself immune with a vaccine, trying to survive against a cult like band of nocturnal mutants. It was adapted from Richard Matheson’s novel ‘I Am Legend’ , and adapted again as a movie in 2007 starring Wil Smith. In this case it is a plague that virtually wipes out humanity and destroys human civilisation. Apart from the mutants, probably not that far fetched if you consider that the infamous Black Death or Great Plague wiped out 30 to 60% of Europe's population in the 1300's, reducing the world's population from 475 million to 350 - 375 million in the 14th century. It took 200 years for the world population to recover to its previous level. Small outbreaks of the bubonic plague appeared until the 19th century. Great movie! The Spanish Flu of 1918 killed somewhere between 50 to 100 million, if something like that got unleashed in modern times it could be "the end of the world as we know it". International travel would spread it like wildfire and the resultant panic would mean the system collapses as people "dig in" and stop going to work or participating in society. Richard Preston's "The Hot Zone" and Laurie Garrett's "The Coming Plague" are both must reads if you are interested in this subject. I will skip those books, they look like a global equivalent to looking up your symptoms on WebMD.
My paranoia level is quite high enough.
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