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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 23:40:24 GMT -5
I'm not a comics guy; I collected SSoC back in the day mainly for the REH adaptations. I've never read the classic CtB, and did not pick up the new version. I really prefer the old style SSoC, in b&w, with much finer art than the new version. I wish they'd bring that back. That said, the prose story in SSoC was *awesome*, amirite? Yeah, the old SSOC issues were kinda special. It'd be great to see a Marvel comic adaptation of The Shadow of Vengeance. An Original Graphic Novel in hardback, of course.
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Post by arcadian on Feb 2, 2020 19:20:55 GMT -5
I was always hoping Dark Horse would put it back together after a phenomenal 75 issue run highlighted by Busiek / Truman and Nord / Giorello. And whatever Marvel's talents, it was not going to go in that direction. So I think my assessment is what I thought all along, Conan would shift towards superhero, a little more all-ages, some effort at cross-overs to the Marvel Universe, and lack a steady team to create a vision. (Some here want Marvel to recreate the Thomas / Smith / Buscema era, and I never thought that would happen. I think someone here expressed it as different time, different place, different people).
For me, the best Conan was Conan the Barbarian, with great misgivings about the use of Crom and a realization that this approach was a bit too strung out. I didn't read any of the superhero crossovers, but the worst Conan I read was Serpent War; not because of Moon Knight, I found it poorly paced, confusing and a big letdown.
Biggest surprise for me was the number of Conan titles Marvel put out the first year, including the extent Conan became part of the Marvel Universe. I think having a title that tells Conan Tales from different creative teams was a great idea. But it seemed redundant with the approach Aaron was taking with the main title.
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Post by darklordbob on Feb 3, 2020 2:25:27 GMT -5
I think that might have been me.
Much as I would have liked to hope for a return of that magic je ne sais quoi, it was never going to happen. It's not just the writers or the artists, it's the company itself that's completely different. The House of Ideas isn't what it used to be,for good and for ill. Although I will say those two Thomas penned issues of NuSSoC had something that came close writing wise. Even after all this time the man's still got it.
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Post by kemp on Feb 3, 2020 7:29:05 GMT -5
I was hoping for something akin to the Thomas/Buscema era when I heard that Marvel was taking Conan back, but thinking it would probably be some woke thing. It was neither, not that bad, but certainly not that good.
The new CtB and SSOC has been a bit of a hit and miss, some of the art and storytelling was good, SSOC issues 10 where Roy Thomas was involved, some not so hot, and I felt the whole crimson witch and evil twins thing dragged on for far too long in CtB, although initially looked promising
Like many here I was disappointed that we didn’t get the old b&w SSOC mag that stood outside the normal comics code fare, with the associated cussing, violence and some female nudity. Didn’t care much for the Serpent War, dropped it after the first issue.
I think Marvel has been clever in bringing in the omnibus editions that contained the classic CtB and SSOC stories, as well as some of the reprints.
I like Savage Avengers, but more as a retro twentieth century style Marvel heroes team up spectacle than as a Conan comic.
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Post by jbruel0 on Feb 3, 2020 10:22:44 GMT -5
The coming back of Conan in Marvel 2019 is definitively not a success, being so far from fans' expectations. Far from some Dark Horse hits. The only think they did well is the restoration of the old issues. The new series are poor. Poor stories, poor design, poor scenarii. Except the Savage Avengers series, at last something original, but not the Conan we like.
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 3, 2020 10:37:18 GMT -5
That's part of the problem with the current era in general (I'd say from around House of M for Marvel and Infinite Crisis for DC). Things are so structured around events so that individual series aren't really all that interesting. When you get a character like Conan where he has a life and career for the most part separate from any of these stories, they're not sure what to do. I don't think most of us here would be extremely interested in any kind of crossover issues where CTB gets directly tied into Savage Avengers or something like that. So then they have to come up with something new and that's been sorely lacking.
I'm getting more and more convinced Marvel is getting back whatever old licenses it once had for reprint purposes more than doing anything new with them. Conan and MOKF have been very good to great sellers in omnibus form, so that's why we're getting Kull and Solomon Kane that way. If they do something new, they'll try to get it so tied into their other characters, it may not be worth another company's while to someday try to get a hold of it. Plus would the next holder have the ability to use Cory's work or would they have to do something on their own?
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Post by jbruel0 on Feb 9, 2020 12:58:14 GMT -5
Savage Avengers #0: they (Marvel) even lost Conan….lol
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Post by boboldman on Feb 9, 2020 16:09:57 GMT -5
What continuity are they following? Are they going back to the old Marvel continuity? It doesn’t really seem to fit that very well, nor does it fit in with Dark Horse’s timeline.
It seems to me that Marvel is just telling random Conan stories and not really caring if they go together.
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 9, 2020 20:27:39 GMT -5
That’s about it. They’ll reference another story if they feel like it. But don’t try to get the square SSOC pegs in the round CTB holes. you might get hurt :-)
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Post by robp on Feb 10, 2020 4:03:21 GMT -5
What continuity are they following? Are they going back to the old Marvel continuity? It doesn’t really seem to fit that very well, nor does it fit in with Dark Horse’s timeline. It seems to me that Marvel is just telling random Conan stories and not really caring if they go together. That's my feeling. I've totally lost track of Conan Avengers, Snake people, was he in space at some point, or was that Kull? Just seems to be a mess, no cohesion and too many titles out at the same time.
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Post by theironshadow on Feb 10, 2020 12:38:14 GMT -5
Guys, i hold the Dark Horse adaptations in such high esteem i am specifically avoiding any retread's of DH's Howard tales unless they are somehow improved upon (Black Coast excepted...)I don't want to be into a particular story arc with Conan The Barbarian and then suddenly they throw an adaptation of Rogues In The House or Black Colossus. There is plenty of room to follow on from DH without upsetting the continuity, unless they feel they would end up with a small creative area to explore.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Feb 14, 2020 21:37:28 GMT -5
It took me a few days, but I managed to catch up on Conan: The Barbarian and finished off Age of Conan: Valeria. I'll list my thoughts for these titles as well as Age of Conan: “Belit” and the Conan 2099 one-shot.
Conan: The Barbarian
This is worthy of being the flagship book as it was the most consistent over the first year, there weren't any issues that really stood out, but I have to admit enjoying Zaffino's artwork on the fill-in issue with King Conan being a vigilante. Asrar's artwork was very ill-suited to the character, setting, and genre early on, but by the end of issue #12 I think he evolved and finally grasped the feel of what makes a good sword-and-sorcery comic artist.
As for the writing... I remember Jason Aaron posted a picture of all the Lin Carter and DeCamp paperbacks when he got the job (he also posted images of the REH originals after, but I'm skeptical of how much of those he read) and the storyline shows. This wasn't very REH, it was more along the lines of pastiche, a pastiche of a pastiche if you will. It wasn't a bad idea for a story, but spanning it over 12 issues was a horrible idea. The character and story itself wasn't suited to the format the same way Thor was during Aaron's initial Thor run where he used a similar mechanic/method of storytelling. Aaron should have picked an era of Conan's life and told a great story, not tell an above average story through all of them.
As for the future of this title overall, Marvel needs to decide what the hell they are doing about continuity. Are they writing all new canon or are they going to treat the classic Marvel run as canon, too? The appearance of Conn really threw me. I personally hope they are focused on telling new stories and not worrying about the classic Marvel canon, but they seem to be picking and choosing between Conn and the Savage Sword issue that was a sequel to Night of the Dark God.
Conan: The Barbarian #1-12 rating: 6/10
Age of Conan: “Belit”
There's no dressing up this shit show. This was horrible and makes Brian Wood's Queen of the Black Coast series at Dark Horse look like Truman and Giorello's work by comparison. Everything about this book was just wrong. The wrong creative team, the wrong characterization of Belit, the wrong setting, the wrong tone, I could go on and on. This was a disgrace and I can't believe I bought all the issues. This mini series all but incinerated the already damaged Age of Conan brand. No diehard fans I know wanted or asked for prequel mini series of either Belit or Valeria and the general comic reading public could care less about them, if they even know who they are.
Age of Conan Belit #1-5 rating: 1/10
Age of Conan: “Valeria”
Compared to the Belit mini this was actually readable. The characterization of Valeria isn't good, but it's not as horrible as in Belit. Meredith Finch is a competent writer and I had higher expectations for her after her Savage Sword of Conan story, but I was disappointed with this. The dialogue wasn't Howardian, nor was the plot that interesting. Again, this was the wrong showcase for her, a one-shot maybe, but a five issue mini for a character that mainstream people only know from the Arnold movie was a horrible idea. The art was decent, though, despite that blacksmith's apprentice looking too much like Conan in the first issue. But, yeah, between this and Belit I think the Age of Conan brand/line is dead, and we're probably better for it.
Age of Conan: “Valeria” rating: 3/10
Conan 2099 #1
It's sad that this was the best Conan comic we got this past year, but it pretty much was. Conan in this setting isn't ideal, but at least he was portrayed correctly from a characterization standpoint and the art was phenomenal. This actually felt and read like quality pastiche.
Conan 2099 #1 rating: 8/10
I'll put my thoughts down on the Savage Sword of Conan, Savage Avengers, and Conan: Serpent War once I catch up on those.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 1:37:40 GMT -5
Conan 2099 #1 It's sad that this was the best Conan comic we got this past year, but it pretty much was. Conan in this setting isn't ideal, but at least he was portrayed correctly from a characterization standpoint and the art was phenomenal. This actually felt and read like quality pastiche. Conan 2099 #1 rating: 8/10 I agree, wholeheartedly. Surprisingly, the best Conan book last year. The only time Duggan actually got Conan right.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Feb 15, 2020 10:21:49 GMT -5
Here's what I think of Conan the Barbarian: The Life & Death of Conan. I have read all the issues and initially, was really intrigued by the story of Conan’s final adventure, after all Conan’s no god or superhero that can return from the grave every couple of years. We know from REH that Conan will probably abdicate after a relatively peaceful period in his reign, the neighbouring Kingdoms will no longer represent a threat thanks to the Cimmerian. Conan will eventually abdicate the throne of with no heir, he will not allow one of his kids to inherit the throne either - if you’re gonna use Conn, he’s gotta get out there in the real world and get a real job or earn the right to rule with his own hands, somehow! Conan’s death will occur after this abdication, will he die on one of these adventures in far away lands? Or will he return to save Aquilonia in their darkest hour? I dunno. Getting back to the 12 issue run by Jason Aaron he should have broken up the story into two 6 issues story-arcs that when read together relate the tale of Conan’s eventual death. For this very reason the first trade Paperback is pointless and seems to be going nowhere, with no resolution, or incentive to pick up the next trade. Yeah two six issue independent stories would have been better. I'm really scratching my head over Conn, here. I know he's from the classic Marvel run, but I really had hoped they wouldn't bring in Conan's family from Marvel's King Conan. They seem just so out of place and comic booky. I was also hoping for this to be Conan's death, but Aaron cucked out and didn't even give us Conan's final adventure since he brought him back. Yeah that was just a pure comic book mechanic that I wasn't a fan of. Not a big fan of Conn. He's a pastiche version of Korak. The son is always inferior to the father when it comes to pulp heroes like this. They usually just end up being watered down versions of them. Yeah, Asrar finnaly got it and Zaffino is my new favorite artist. Yeah I'm hoping their King Conan is only 6 issues and has a more focused story.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Feb 15, 2020 10:29:11 GMT -5
In short, while I understand the point about not wanting the new issues tied too closely to the past, not having a sense of chronology hasn’t served the current efforts we’ll. Jason did try to tie things in a couple of times (#2 being the most direct), but until the end, we didn’t get a sense of how it fit into his life. His story got better towards the end so if I could give him advice on King Conan, it’s go for shorter stories. Agreed, sword-and-sorcery is best served in short bursts, not novels or 12 issue epics like this. He also needs to focus more on the canon in the REH yarns and not Marvel's canon. Okay, he brought in Conn, that's fine, but he doesn't needs to bring in all of Marvel's King Conan canon. If he wants to tell a story with both of them (and judging by the teaser image released, that's exactly what he wants) he can go for it, but do it in a Howardian way, not a comic book way. Yeah that was a bad move, that story went on 3 issues, too long. Marvel should have made Savage Sword a series of 2 issue arcs by different creative teams if they were adamant in using the Savage Sword title. But given the quality of most of the ones I've read so far, they shouldn't have resurrected a legendary title like this only to fill it with average stories and below average artwork. I hope so, but sadly it doesn't appear Marvel seems to be focused on Conan in the Hyborian Age as much as in the Marvel Age. I can't say I really blame them because Roy Thomas and others were able to tell better tales than any of the modern Marvel writers ever could in that era...perhaps they figure Conan in the Marvel Age is uncharted territory and worth exploring, but I have my doubts on how long they can keep that up. Conan Year Two at Marvel seems to be Conan: The Barbarian, Serpent Crown stuff, King Conan, and Conan with the Savage Avengers fighting some aliens. We'll have to see how all of this works out.
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