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Post by deuce on Aug 18, 2016 21:12:51 GMT -5
James Churchward basically invented the "Mu concept" as REH, HPL, CAS and others used it. Here's a link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_ChurchwardFor those playing along at home, the historian/archaeologist de Bourbourg came up with the word (supposedly from a Mayan codex) and then le Plongeon applied it to Atlantis. It was Churchward, in his book, The Lost Continent of Mu (published in 1925), who first came up with the concept of a vast, now-sunken continent (named "Mu" AND far larger than Australia) located in the central Pacific. Churchward never implies any link between Mu and the (small) continent of Australia (nor "Indonesia"). Robert E. Howard doesn't seem to have had any time for the "Australia = Mu" thing, either. In the "Isle of the Eons" fragment (which REH worked on and rewrote over a period of four years), we learn the vast majority of what REH had to say about Mu. Every indication is that Mu (in Howard's mind) occupied the central/southeast Pacific at a very distant date and then sank (very possibly before the Lemurian Isles and Atlantis). While there is a mention of warriors "of Mu" in The Shadow Kingdom, no mention of the actual continent is ever made, nor is there any mention of it in the Hyborian Age essay. This could very easily be analogous to the way REH calls long-time emigrants from Atlantis (and their descendants) "Atlanteans", despite the fact that the continent of Atlantis had sunk below the waves long before. It would also be analogous to the practice of referring to "Jews" long after the Roman province Judaea had disappeared. HP Lovecraft wrote a tale about Mu called Out of the Aeons. In it, he locates one portion of Mu as lying somewhere between New Zealand and Chile. Once again, the south (-east) Pacific. This tale cites REH's Von Junzt and the Unaussprechlichen Kulten as THE major source on Mu. A link to HPL's tale: www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/oa.aspx(Note: the "Black Book/UK" also, apparently, is the source for modern info about the Hyborian Age, according to REH.) REH was quite proud of this inclusion in a story crafted by an author that he highly respected. Nor does he seem to have had a problem with HPL's placement of Mu (and why should he, since that is basically where Churchward placed it?).
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Post by deuce on Feb 1, 2017 12:36:38 GMT -5
From REH's essay, "The Hyborian Age", which is essentially his last word on Lemuria: ...the Lemurians, who inhabited a chain of large islands in the eastern hemisphere. (...) On the far eastern shores of the Continent there lived another race, human, but mysterious and non-Thurian, with which the Lemurians from time to time came in contact. They [the non-Thurians] apparently came from a shadowy and nameless continent lying somewhere east of the Lemurian Islands.
Then the Cataclysm rocked the world. Atlantis and Lemuria sank, and the Pictish Islands were heaved up to form the mountain peaks of a new continent. Many Lemurians escaped to the eastern coast of the Thurian Continent, which was comparatively untouched. There they were enslaved by the ancient race which already dwelt there, and their history, for thousands of years, is a history of brutal servitude.Without even looking at other tales/sources from REH, it becomes fairly clear that "Lemuria" was a large archipelago/"chain of large islands" off the east coast of Asia, and thus very likely north of the equator. A probable supposition would be to start the eastern end of the archipelago at the Hawaiian Islands and extend it westward somewhere in the neighbourhood of Ponape/Pohnpei and the Caroline Islands. infogalactic.com/info/Pohnpeiinfogalactic.com/info/Caroline_Islands
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Post by deuce on Mar 15, 2017 10:26:34 GMT -5
From "A Song of the Race", part of the works related to Bran Mak Morn: “First and the last of the race are we, Gone is the old world’s gilt and pride, Mu is a myth of the western sea, Through halls of Atlantis the white sharks glide.” Men of the Shadows is a very early Howard tale that was never published in his lifetime. As was sometimes the case with unpublished works -- though almost never in the case of published work -- REH deviated from it later. Here we have Gonar relating the ancient epic of the Picts, passed down and garbled over the course of a thousand centuries... “Far to the west, across the roaming waves, lay the vast, dim land of Lemuria. And anon came fleets of canoes bearing strange raiders, the half-human Men of the Sea. Perhaps from some strange seamonster had those sprang, for they were scaly like unto a shark, and they could swim for hours under the water. Ever the tribe beat them back, but often they came, for renegades of the tribe fled to Lemuria. To the east and the south great forests stretched away to the horizons, peopled by ferocious beasts and ape-men." “So the centuries glided by on the wings of Time. Stronger and stronger grew the Nameless Tribe, more skillful in craftsmanship; less skilled in war and the chase. And slowly the Lemurians fared on the upward climb." “Then, upon a day, a mighty earthquake rocked the world. Sky mingled with sea and the land reeled between. With the thunder of gods at war, the islands of the west plunged upward and lifted from the sea. And lo, there were mountains upon the new formed western coast of the northern continent. And lo, the land of Lemuria sank beneath the waves, leaving only a great mountainous island, surrounded by many isles which had been her highest peaks." “Then the Lemurians, the Second Race, came into the northern land. Far up the scale of life had they made their way, and they were a swart, strange race; short, broad men were they, with strange eyes like unto unknown seas. Little they knew of cultivation or of craft, but they possessed strange knowledge of curious architecture and from the Nameless Tribe had they learned to make implements of polished obsidian and jade and argillite." "Silence broods over Lemuria; a curse haunts Atlantis. Red-skinned savages roam the western lands, wandering o’er the valley of the Western River, befouling the entempled ramparts which the men of Lemuria reared in worship of the God of the Sea. And to the south, the empire of the Toltecs of Lemuria is crumbling. So the First Races are passing." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keep in mind that when Howard wrote MotS, Churchward hadn't even published The Lost Continent of Mu, so there was no way for REH to know about the "legends" of Mu. All he had was what the Theosophists were spouting about the supposed lost continent of "Lemuria". As soon as REH knew about Mu, he began working it into his tales of Kull, Bran Mak Morn and Solomon Kane; that's when Lemuria became an archipelago to the north of Mu. Why get rid of one when you can have both?
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Post by bobbyderie on Mar 15, 2017 17:55:20 GMT -5
This reminds me, I had some quotes to share regarding REH, HPL, and CAS and Theosophy from their letters:
I’ve also been digesting something of vast interest as background or source material—which has belatedly introduced me to a cycle of myth with which I have reason to believe you are particularly familiar—i.e., the Atlantis-Lemuria tales, as developed by modern occultists & the sophical charlatans. Really, some of these hints about the lost “City of the of the Golden Gates” & the shapeless monsters of archaic Lemuria are ineffably pregnant with fantastic suggestion; & I only wish I could get hold of more of the stuff. What I have read is The Story of Atlantis & the Lost Lemuria, by W. Scott-Elliot. — HPL to CAS, 17 Jun 1926, SL2.58
As to Frederick Bligh Bond, Esq.—I thought I sub-lent you that book (lent me by Æmilius Paullus Culinarious Atholicus) when you were here—together with another crazy mess about Atlantis & Lemuria—asking you to pass it on to Little Belknap. — HPL to Alfred Galpin, 1 Apr 1927, LAG 132 (Re: The Story of Atlantis and the Lost Lemuria)
I think you asked about a book on Atlantis by one Lewis Spence. Of this I must confess that I have never heard. — CAS to HPL, 27 May 1928, LHPL 2 (Re: The History of Atlantis (1927)? Cf. SLCAS 237, 247)
About Atlantis — I believe something of the sort existed, though I do not especially hold any theory about a high type of civilization existing there — in fact, I doubt that. But some continent was submerged away back, or some large body of land, for practically all peoples have legends about a flood. And the Cro Magnons appeared suddenly in Europe, developed to a high stage of primitive culture; there is no trace to show that they came up the ladder of utter barbarism in Europe. Suddenly their remains are found supplanting the Neanderthal Men, to whom they have no ties of kinship whatever. Where did they originate? Nowhere in the known world, evidently. They must have originated and developed through the different basic stages of evolution in some land which is not now known to us. The occultists say that we are the fifth — I believe — great sub-race. Two unknown and unnamed races came, then the Lemurians, then the Atlanteans, then we. They say the Atlanteans were highly developed. I doubt it. I think they were simply the ancestors of the Cro Magnon men, who by some chance, escaped the fate which overtook the rest of the tribes. All my views on the matter I included in a long letter to the editor to whom I sold a tale entitled “The Shadow Kingdom,” which I expect will be published as a foreword to that story — if ever. This tale I wove about a mythical antediluvian empire, a contemporary of Atlantis. — REH to Harold Preece, 20 Oct 1928, CL1.237 Re: Oriental Library Critic ? (journal with theosophical items) cf. CLIMH 3
It is very doubtful whether an inhabited Atlantis ever existed, although vast areas in the Atlantic have undoubtedly sunk at one time or another. It seems likely that the classic Atlantis of Plato was in North Africa, on the shores of a lagoon now dried up. The fabled Poseidonis was in all probability somewhere near the later Tunis. But a sunken land is a great theme for fiction, & I always liked to read Atlantean tales. — HPL to Elizabeth Toldridge, 25 Oct 1929, SL3.39, LETAR 113
It is good to know that you liked this last story. As to that problem of transmission—well, it seems to me that the author has to be omniscient or nothing: though one might get the story out of the “astral records” (preserved somewhere in the ether, and accessible to adepts) which are mentioned in the literature of esoteric Buddhism! The tradition of Hyperborea, Mu and Atlantis were supposedly preserved in these records! [...] I have never seen The Riddle of the Pacific, nor the book by Scott-Elliot either, and must find out if they are locally procurable. — CAS to HPL, 16 Nov 1930, SLCAS 135, 136 (re: “The Letter of Mohaun Los” ?)
Lumley is naturally in touch with all sorts of freak cults from Rosicrucians to Theosophists. — HPL to REH, 8 Jun 1932, AMtF 1.307
What you say of your new tale, and of the Pushkara-Plaksha-Kusha-Shâlmali-Mt. Wern-Senzar-Dzyan-Shamballah myth-cycle which you have dug up, interests me to fever heat; and I am tempted to overwhelm you with questions as to the source, provenance, general bearings, and bibliography of all this unknown legendry. Where did you find it? How can one get hold of it? What nation or region developed it? Why isn’t it mentioned in ordinary works on comparative folklore? What—if any—special cult (like the theosophist, who have concocted a picturesque tradition of Atlanteo-Lemurian elder world tuff, well summarised in a book by W. Scott-Elliott) cherishes it? For gawd’s sake, yes—send along those notes, and I’m sure that Klarkash-Ton, High-Priest of Tsathoggua, would (unless he knows about the cycle in question, appreciate them as keenly as I. Incidentally—Klarkash-TOn tells me that his Semitic oracle de Casseres never heard of Zemargad. Tough luck! But the hint so strongly appeals to HIgh-Priest Klarkash that he is going to use the name Zemargad—in conjunction with more synthetic nomenclature—in his new and hellish conception, The Infernal Star. Meanwhile, as I said before, I’m quite on edge about that Dzyan-Shamballah stuff. The cosmic scope of it—Lords of Venus, and all that—sounds so especially and emphatically in my line! — HPL to E. Hoffmann Price, 15 Feb 1933, SL4.153
Please return the epistle, since I want to save those references to the Dzyan-Shamballah myth-cycle which Price has just uncovered. As you’ll see, this stuff looks decidedly interesting! — HPL to August Derleth, 16 Feb 1933, ES2.546
Price has lately come upon some genuine folklore closely resembling my pre-terrestrial Yog-Sothoth stuff—he promises particulars later. — HPL to Donald Wandrei, 17 Feb 1933, MTS 318
Price has dug up another cycle of actual folklore involving an allegedly primordial thing called The Book of Dzyan, which is supposed to contain all sorts of secrets of the Elder World before the sinking of Kusha (Atlantis) and Shâlmali (Lemuria). It is kept at the Holy City of Shamballah, and is regarded as the oldest book in the world—its language being Senzar (ancestor of Sanscrit), which was brought to earth 18,000,000 years ago by the Lords of Venus. I don’t know where E. Hoffmann got hold of this stuff, but it sounds damn good... — HPL to CAS, 18 Feb 1933, SL4.155
By the way—it turns out that Price’s mystical legendry was, after all, only the stuff promulgated by the theosophists—Besant, Leadbeater, &c. I thought it sounded like that. Do you know anything of the origin of that stuff? It pretends to be real folklore—at least in part (of India, I suppose)—but I have a certain sneaking suspicion that the theosophists themselves have interpolated a lot of dope. There are things which suggest a knowledge of certain 19th century conceptions. — HPL to August Derleth, c.27 Feb 1933, ES 2.547-548
The Book of Dzyan is new to me—I haven’t read any great amount of theosophical literature. I’d be vastly interested in any dope you or Price can pass on to me. Theosophy,a s far as I can gather, is a version of esoteric Yoga prepared for western consumption, so I dare say its legendry must have some sort of basis in ancient Oriental records. One can disregard the theosophy, and make good use of the stuff about elder continents, etc. I got my own ideas about Hyperborea, Poseidonis, etc., from such sources, and then turned my imagination loose. — CAS to HPL, 1 Mar 1933, SLCAS 203
That Besant, Leadbeater stuff originates undoubtedly from Indian folklore, though as you suspect, the English have unquestionably interpolated much material. — HPL to August Derleth, 6 Mar 1933, ES 2.550
“Friend Trowbridge,” cried the victorious Frenchman, “this is almost uncanny. It is the spirit of a very evil being who lived on the continent of Shâlmali 900,000 years ago. Not for many years have I seen such a Thing. We must oppose it. But first, let us have some coffee prepared by your so-excellent Nora, after which we will enlist the aid of brave Sergeant Costello.” — HPL to E. Hoffmann Price, 24 Mar 1933, SL4.162-163 (note: Seabury Quinn/Jules de Grandin parody)
It is not likely that any continuous civilisation (granting that elder civilisations did exist) survived to influence the present chain of civilisations—except perhaps in vague, fragmentary, & largely discredited legends of forgotten elder worlds. Such legends float persistently around India & are taken up by the theosophists, & only the other day my New Orleans friend E. Hoffmann Price (who, by the way, is going to Soviet Russia as a technical expert in April) discovered an intensely picturesque myth-cycle dealing with the earth’s early aeons, the lost continents of Kusha (Atlantis) & Shâlmali (Lemuria), & the peopling of the earth from elder planets. There is talk of a secret book in some Eastern shrine, parts of which are older than the earth. All this sounds amusingly like the synthetic mythology I have concocted for my stories, but Price assures me it is actual folklore & promises to send further particulars. All of our group may use this myth-cycle as a background for future stories. As for sunken continents—the one real probability is that a great deal of land once existed in the Pacific which exists no longer [...] — HPL to Elizabeth Toldridge, 25 Mar 1933, SL4.165, LETAR 233
Here are some notes of Price’s which I am instructed to forward to you. They were sent by Price to Clark Ashton Smith, who sent them to me, requesting that I, in turn, forward them to you. I suppose Price will — or perhaps already has — let you know where they are to go next. — REH to R. H. Barlow, 2 Apr 1933, CL3.47 (re: Price’s notes on The Book of Dzyan)
Glad you duly received the Price notes with data on the theosophical myth-cycle. I copied a good deal of this, & took the names of the books from which Price dug up this dope. Beside the body of tradition, my own Cthulhu-Yog-Sothoth stuff sounds quite pallid & unconvincing! Much of this stuff undoubtedly represents actual beliefs current among the HIndoos, although a great deal has undoubtedly been added by the theosophists of the 19th century. Smith is following this research still further, & has unearthed a great deal of interesting data which Price does not include. It surely does form an admirable background for fantastic fiction. By the way—I think CAS is well out of the coastal earthquake zone. But when “Krauncha” begins to crumble he may some day find himself near the coast! — HPL to R. H. Barlow, 9 Apr 1933, OFF 60
Some day, if I ever get the time, I intend to look into the occult accounts of Atlantis and Lemuria. There must be some basis, of one kind or another, for the myriad myths of prehistoric civilizations. — REH to CAS, 21 May 1934, CL3.209
I know very little about The Rosicrucians, who, from your account, must be pretty closely allied to the theosophists. I do remember seeing some articles by Manly P. Hall in the Overland, but assumed him to be a theosophist. — CAS to Margaret and Ray St. Clair, 23 May 1933, SLCAS 207
Another cycle of impressive-sounding folklore or pseudo-folklore is that sponsored by the modern theosophists. Some of this is undoubtedly genuine Hindoo myth, but I suspect that the cult of theosophists has mixed with it a great deal of synthetic fakery of 19th century origin. THe best books of this sort of thing to read are the following:
Besant, Annie—The Pedigree of Man Blavatsky, Helena—The Secret Doctrine Leadbeater—The Inner Life Scott-Elliot, W.—Atlantis & the Lost Lemuria Sinnett, A. P.—Esoteric Buddhism
More of this stuff can be found in the catalogues of the Occult Society, 604 Locust St., Philadelphia, Pa. Those theosophical mystifications involved vast gulfs of time & cycles of change—pre-human aeons & life coming from other planets—not found in other folklore. — HPL to Natalie H. Wooley, 18 Jul 1933, LRBO 190-191
The legend of the pre-human city of Shamballah, still surviving in the Gobi desert behind a veil of unknown force, occurs in the writings of the Theosophists. It may be an actual bit of Oriental folklore, though one can never be sure. It is hard telling what the theosophists have taken fro, Hindoo and Thibetan sources, and what they have made up themselves… — HPL to William Lumley, 6 Dec 1935, SL5.214
One may add that these European legends have nothing to do with the early Hindoo myths on which the theosophists draw. The identification of the lost world Kusha with “Atlantis” was a mere gesture of the 19th century mystagogues. According to eastern lore—as doctored by theosophist interpreters—”Kusha” included a great part of the world both existing and sunken. It embraced northern Asia—above the great sea now the Gobi desert, and extended eastward to include China and Japan; then occupying the North Pacific basin nearly as far as the present American West coast. In the south it coincided with India, Burma, and Malaysia, and westward it included Persia, Arabia, Syria, and the Red Sea, and Il Duce’s new Abyssinian province. It filled the present Mediterranean Sea and covered Italy and Spain—and, projecting out to sea from Ireland and Scotland, stretched westward over the present Atlantic to cover that area and much of North and South America besides. — HPL to Frederic Jay Pabody, 19 Jun 1936, SL5.268-269
The crap of the theosophists—which falls into the class of conscious fakery—is interesting in spots. It combines some genuine HIndoo & other Oriental myths with a subtle charlatanism obviously drawn from 19th century scientific concepts. Scott-Elliot’s “Atlantis & the Lost Lemuria” and Sinnett’s “Esoteric Buddhism” are rather fascinating. Clark Ashton Smith knows a lot of this stuff, & E. Hoffmann Price read up on it rather extensively some years ago. Pseudo-scientific or semi-charlatanic stuff forms a class by itself. Among this material (all of which is good fictional source-reading) is the “Atlantis” lore promulgated by Le PLongeon, Donnelly, & Lewis Spence, the “Mu” books of the late Col. Churchward, the miscellaneous effusions of Charles Fort, &c. &c. Some of these authors are plain fakers, while others are self-deluded “nuts”. But even this kind of thing can’t equal a really well-written story. —HPL to Willis Conover, 29 Jul 1936, LRBO 379
[...] (7) A. P. SINNETT, author of “Esoteric Buddhism”. —HPL to Willis Conover, 2 Aug 1936, LRBO 381
The nearest things in real life to books of the “Necronomicon” type are the scattered bits of magical incantation and description which have come down from the superstitious past in such forms as the HIndoo myths used (and added to) by the Theosophists, the Jewish Cabbala, the writings of Paracelsus, and the isolated rituals and other scraps collected by such indefatigable (and sometimes credulous) scholars as Alphonse-Louis Constant (Eliphas Levi), Arthur Edward Waite, the Rev. Montague Summers, and Lewis Spence. —HPL to Nils Frome, 15 Oct 1936, LFLB 347
Thanks, by the way, for the loan of the Blavatsky opus—which I shall read with the most intense interest. I’ve never read any of the classics of theosophy, though I’ve always been meaning to. I wonder if anybody has ever tried to isolate the real Oriental folklore in them from the 19th century fakery & interpolations? I may have fumbled the allusion to the Book of Dzyan, since all I know about it is something in a letter of Price’s which spoke of the early parts as having been brought from an older solar system than ours. Of course the text ridiculed in the Necronomicon is the merest imitation! — HPL to Henry Kuttner, 30 Nov 1936, LHK 27 (The Secret Doctrine ?)
[...] or trading overland with vanished peoples in the Gobi, & perchance for a moment glimpsing immemorial Shamballah behind its curtain of oblivion [...] — HPL to Fritz Leiber, 19 Dec 1936, WD 47
A whole department of mythology & folklore would be desirable—bringing in, among other things, all the pre-human, root-race, & lost continent stuff of the theosophists. Price & Klarkash-Ton could give you endless data in that line. — HPL to Willis Conover, 10 Jan 1937, LRBO 410
Re: some of the place-names, however: Price originally dug up the name and legend of Shamballah from theosophic writings, probably those of Blavatsky. My Hyperborea, too, is drawn as much from occult tradition as from the old classic legends. Thule, which Laney seems to think I originated, was merely the name given by the ancients to the extreme north. The Book of Dzyan, older than the world, is part of that Theosophic Shamballah legend. But of course this is rather meticulous, since these names, like Nodens and Dagon and other actual names, are now part of the Mythology anyway. — CAS to August Derleth, 30 Nov 1943, SLCAS 342
I imagine that Lovecraft derived his information about Shamballah from E. Hoffmann Price, who in turn probably drew the data from Blavatsky or some other theosophical authority. I have some notes that Price gave me, in which Shamballah is mentioned: “The word came from Shamballah, the Holy City, to destroy Atlantis 850,000 years ago, and overthrow the Lords of the Dark Face. The divine race of Aarab escaped the catastrophe, and in Al Yemen they reared the mighty Himyar palaces, with prodigious bulks, uncounted domes.” S. is supposed to exist, invisible, somewhere in the Gobi desert. It was, I seem to remember, built by the lords of the Flame who came down from Venus. In it is kept the Book of Dzyan, older than the world. — CAS to Donald Wandrei, 27 Oct 1948, SLCAS 354-355
Your forthcoming book sounds most interesting. As to the literary angle, my own impression is that much, if not most, of the modern fiction written about Atlantis, etc., has drawn its inception from Theosophic sources, and am wondering if you have come to the same conclusion. Incidentally, it should be noted that Zothique as I have conceived it belongs to the future rather than the past, and lies at the other end of the time-cycle from Hyperborea, Mu, etc. The peoples of Zothique, one might say, have rounded the circle and have returned to the conditions of what we of the present rea regard as antiquity. The idea of this last continent was suggested by the “occult” traditions regarding Pushkara, which will allegedly become the home of the 7th root-race, the last race of mankind. However, I doubt if Theosophists would care for my conception, since the Zontiqueans as I have depicted them are a rather sinful and iniquitous lot, showing little sign of the spiritual evolution promised for humanity in its final cycles. Rosicrucianism seems to have some similar traditions regarding the lost continents. But perhaps you have gone into all this. I don’t know how much claim to “ancient wisdom” any of it has, but have my apprehensions. — CAS to L. Sprague de Camp, 24 Oct 1950, SLCAS 367 (re: Lost Continents: The Atlantis Theme in History, Science and Literature)
Lovecraft correspondents interested in Theosophy include E. Hoffmann Price, William Lumley, Clark Ashton Smith, and James F. Morton (see Letters to James F. Morton 424).
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Post by deuce on Mar 17, 2017 14:53:49 GMT -5
Lovecraft and Clark Ashton Smith both admired The Moon Pool and HPL mentioned Ponape in his fiction. REH definitely read Merritt and it's quite likely he read The Moon Pool in some form. When he was developing his pseudo-history for the Pacific, Merritt's novel was one of the biggest pulp fantasy successes of the preceding 5-10 years. "Goodwin," he said, "do you know at all of the ruins on the Carolines; the cyclopean, megalithic cities and harbors of Ponape and Lele, of Kusaie, of Truk and Hogolu, and a score of other islets there? Particularly, do you know of the Nan-Matal and the Metalanim?"
"Of the Metalanim I have heard and seen photographs," I said. "They call it, don't they, the Lost Venice of the Pacific?"
-- A. Merritt, The Moon Pool (1918)Nan-Matal on Ponape.
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