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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 7:50:18 GMT -5
Mastered by desire impulsive,
By a mighty inward urging,
I am ready now for singing,
Ready to begin the chanting
Of our nation's ancient folk-song
Handed down from by-gone ages.
~The beginning lines of Kalevala, the finnish epic tale. Translated by John Martin Crawford, 1888
On this thread I wish to bring some highlighted points of finnish mythology, folk-lore and tale. I will also grant you flashes of history and points of interest which I find fachinating from a romantic sword-and sworcerist's point of view. There will be some links and cuts from movies, music, and literature on the subject.
I hope to bring inspiration to the forums, and I welcome you all to comment, speculate, to weave connections to tales and history world-wide, and link all together in the point of view of today's world.
I'd like to thank Bux for encouraging me to creating this thread.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 8:07:14 GMT -5
Talking about Kalevala... I just acquired a TV-series somewhat based on Kalevala, called Rauta-aika (Age of Iron) made in 1982. It is available with English subtitles, in various online stores.
The story follows the story of Kalevala, with a much more down-to-earth flavor. It is slow-paced, somewhat artistic and at times cofusing, but beautifully made, with some very strong acting and lovely visuals with interesting detail and atmospheric tricks.
I already posted this sample on another thread, but I'll post it again here. Here is the forging of Sampo in question.
On this link are some more clips from the movies as samples. I couldn't figure out how to directly embed them to the thread. >.< yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2007/12/13/rauta-aika
The series ends with an episode where the characters of Kalevala speak with today's poets and researchers, and with eachother about philosophy and whatnot. I highly recommend this to anyone who is feeling full of modern blockbuster historical fiction. This is way different, and good ground for creating conversation. Not good for light entertainment or high-on action hunger.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 10:47:16 GMT -5
Point of interest: KIERIKKI - a stone-age city-
findings from 5000 bc. to 2000 bc.
It may not be much in comparison to the Mediterranean glamour, but Kierikki, and other stone-age findings of the Ii-joki-river offer much to be curious about.
- For a city to grow as early as in the stone-age is one thing. For a city to grow at any time, without any signs of agriculture, is unique in the world.
- Developement of social policies in the north.
- The archeological findings have shows signs of different crafts being performed by different families, which suggests that the people practiced vocations.
- The widely spread trade supports the theory. Many exotic items from faraway places have been found.
- The world's first (known) terrace houses!
- The world's first (known) chewing gum!
- The world's first (known) red-soil grave! (using of red paint in burial rituals)
Here is what the English Wikipedia has to say: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kierikki
Here is some short details in English from Kierikki center and museum's home page. www.ouka.fi/oulu/kierikki/research-history
The Outlines of a "Giant's Churches" can be seen in the landscape.
The "Central" of Kierikki consists of stone-age 66 homesteads that were used year-round. The nearby surrounding area and the riverside connected to Kierikki increase the number to hundreds.
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Post by buxom9sorceress on May 10, 2016 2:56:44 GMT -5
Mastered by desire impulsive,
By a mighty inward urging,
I am ready now for singing,
Ready to begin the chanting
Of our nation's ancient folk-song
Handed down from by-gone ages.
~The beginning lines of Kalevala, the finnish epic tale. Translated by John Martin Crawford, 1888
On this thread I wish to bring some highlighted points of finnish mythology, folk-lore and tale. I will also grant you flashes of history and points of interest which I find fachinating from a romantic sword-and sworcerist's point of view. There will be some links and cuts from movies, music, and literature on the subject.
I hope to bring inspiration to the forums, and I welcome you all to comment, speculate, to weave connections to tales and history world-wide, and link all together in the point of view of today's world.
I'd like to thank Bux for encouraging me to creating this thread. Thanks very much for this new Finland topic. And the stone age city info is fascinating, and a powerful new find. ==== you are inspiring me greatly about my ponderings about the histories of the far north. Please continue? -- Any folklore about powerful witches [ or sorcerers ], monsters, from Finland area [ or nearby? ], please? [ you know a sorceress pines for such supernatural ancient tales ] == Best wishes from Bux. ==== [[ i have to use a special spell to keep me warm when i fly like the wailing wind over the forests and lakes of Finland...]]  ==== |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 7:43:21 GMT -5
Any folklore about powerful witches [ or sorcerers ], monsters, from Finland area [ or nearby? ], please? [ you know a sorceress pines for such supernatural ancient tales ] == Best wishes from Bux. ==== [[ i have to use a special spell to keep me warm when i fly like the wailing wind over the forests and lakes of Finland...]] ====
Oh boy! Is there folklore about powerful witches! Surely there is to an extend that I don't know where to begin! Thus I only give the vaguest response to the root of your inquiry.
What comes to mind when talking about withes flying with the wind, is that some mighty witches could turn into wind themselves OR turn into birds! Birds are not much bothered by the breeze and cold. The witches who could turn into wind or birds were called kirdi noadi , and they were from the most powerful end of the line of witches.
The Hostess of Pohjola , epic witch, who plays the part of the villain in the story of Kalevala, transformed herself into a giant monster-bird and took a small army on her back to claim back the stolen Sampo. 
"Defence of Sampo" - Gallen-Kallela, 1898
The sorcerers of Lapland were surprisingly famous with magic concerning wind. The more so, the further north you got, to the frozen tundras. It is told that people all the way from France have come to Lapland to meet a sorcerer according the matter.
A medieval chronicle-writer, Olaus Magnus Gothus, describes the magic of finns on a wider scale. By his telling, the finnish sorcerers sold wind to merchants, who could not set out to the sea due to bad wind. ”After receiving their payment, they (the witches) gave them (the merchants) three bewitched knots on one leather string, with instructions such as, that if they open the first knot they would have gentle winds, if the second one they would have hard winds. If they opened the last knot they would get such winds that they would not see ahead of them, not stand on the deck long enough to lower the sails, or at the back of the boat to steer. Much hardship has come to those, who have in mockery denied, that there would be such power hidden in those knots.”
Sadly, I can't on top of my head think of any reference for just making yourself invulnerable against elements- which is what you likely hoped for. I will browse my little library and see if something comes up.
In the meantime, please shoot me with more questions! I am always happy to share.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 7:44:26 GMT -5
Coming up (at some soon time) MONSTERS and FIENDS!
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 9:58:31 GMT -5
MONSTERS & FIENDS!
Part 1. The Most Famous
IKU-TURSO
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iku-Turso
Iku = Ancient, Turso = Octopus
This primeval demonic monster comes up in the tales about the origin of the world, the origin of diseases, and various other similar references. In the stories about the ages beginning he rapes/otherwise breeds some other ethereal and primeval entities, who then give birth to some vital particles of the world. Yet he is not exactly a god, but still a monster.
The bearded one, thousand-headed, thousand-horned, you get the idea…
At the end of Kalevala, the Hostess of Pohjola spells Iku-Turso to destroy the people who stole Sampo from her. The great wizard Väinämöinen, who led that mission, grabs Iku-Turso by the ear and tells him to go back into the waves. Iku-Turso sinks into the sea and promises to never raise again.
----------------------------
SANTA CLAUS
It may not be suitable – today – to use this name that originates from St. Nicholas. The modern Santa has so little to do with the old pagan “Joulupukki” – the Yule goat.
Yet, they are related in the very…very deep origins of the same phenomenon. In Finland, we use the word “Joulupukki” for the modern Santa aswell, despite it’s original meaning to us.
And that meaning used to be a very good reason to be nice before Christmas– and NOT naughty!
Our ”Santa” wasn’t a very jolly person. When I was a child, he didn’t yet have the white beard and the red hat which today are his trademarks. He had an ugly mask, grey beard and brown clothes, and he visited every house asking “Are there any nice children here?” He still does that, but nowadays he is a lot softer a character.
The original “Joulupukki” lives under the Korvatunturi-hill in Lapland.
The modern one lives nearby in “Santa Park” – a kindly tourist attraction where everyone can enjoy the nicer flavor of Christmas magic and reindeer rides.
I recommend to those who haven’t seen it, this nice family Christmas movie that is rather silly, but explains the story of the original Santa-claus along the way. Found on Netflix and online stores with English subtitles!
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Post by deuce on May 10, 2016 18:17:21 GMT -5
Point of interest: KIERIKKI - a stone-age city-
findings from 5000 bc. to 2000 bc.
It may not be much in comparison to the Mediterranean glamour, but Kierikki, and other stone-age findings of the Ii-joki-river offer much to be curious about.
- For a city to grow as early as in the stone-age is one thing. For a city to grow at any time, without any signs of agriculture, is unique in the world.
- Developement of social policies in the north.
- The archeological findings have shows signs of different crafts being performed by different families, which suggests that the people practiced vocations.
- The widely spread trade supports the theory. Many exotic items from faraway places have been found.
- The world's first (known) terrace houses!
- The world's first (known) chewing gum!
- The world's first (known) red-soil grave! (using of red paint in burial rituals)
Here is what the English Wikipedia has to say: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kierikki
Here is some short details in English from Kierikki center and museum's home page. www.ouka.fi/oulu/kierikki/research-history
The Outlines of a "Giant's Churches" can be seen in the landscape.
The "Central" of Kierikki consists of stone-age 66 homesteads that were used year-round. The nearby surrounding area and the riverside connected to Kierikki increase the number to hundreds.
Very cool! Always something cool out of Finland. I'd heard of Kierikki about 15yrs ago (through my Finnish girlfriend, who knew I loved archaeology). I should've posted about this back when the forum started. Great thread.  |
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Post by buxom9sorceress on May 11, 2016 1:23:57 GMT -5
Hi Venaala. Thanks very much for all your info about witches + monsters. [ i had no idea that there was so much supernatural tales from Finland ] Any more examples or links will be most welcome, please? powerful spells, and powerful monsters interest me. ==== >>[ i found this bit with google ]... the story of a widow called Agata Pekantyär is very instructive. Agata worked a sizeable farm in Ulvila. Like most of those accused of witchcraft and vidskepelse [benevolent magic], but contrary to some modern popular beliefs, she was neihter old nor poor. She was linked to some of the cases already described. She appeared as a witness in the aforementioned case of defamation, for example, and the aunt of the man supposedly killed by Heikki Yrjönpoika Janckari and Risto Olavipoinka had previously accused Agata of vidskepelse. The web of accusations and counter-accusations at this period obviously trapped a significant portion of the parish. Agata found herself prosecuted for 'benevolent' magic in 1675 and 1676, and on both occasions she was merely sentenced to pay fines. >>>> Ten years later she was accused of flying to **Blåkulla**, a famous witches' meeting place where extraordinary sabbaths occurred, and also charged once again for benevolent magic. The jury considered the accusation concerning Agata's flight to Blåkulla less than reliable, and it was remarked that the witness who made the allegation was prone to drinking too much. Some of the other accusations took a little longer to refute, but refuted they were and she was finally acquitted. At the end of the 1690s a fourth accusation about her activities was aired but never came to court, although the rumour was mentioned in a separate trial to clear the reputation of another alleged witch. ==== >> i like the name **BLAKULLA**. [ sounds a bit like 'dracula', eh? ] -- have you heard of it ? |
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Post by buxom9sorceress on May 11, 2016 3:41:56 GMT -5
“Blåkulla” Island – Mythical Place With Dark Secrets Of Witches And Wizardry www.messagetoeagle.com/swedens-blue-maiden/[ + some photos ] ==== > [ the page was sluggish + slow in my browser so i copied all the text for easy reading [ see below ]... ==== “Blåkulla” Island – Mythical Place With Dark Secrets Of Witches And Wizardry The island of Blue Maiden or Blåkulla, a Swedish island situated in the Kalmar Strait, is a mythical place that for centuries both fascinated and discouraged. It is located 86 meters above sea level and 130 metres above the sea floor. As early as the 15th century, the island was imbued with magical notions of witches and wizardry. Stories of witches gathered annually to meet their master, the devil himself, goes far back in time. From the middle of 1500s, there are stories of the female supernatural beings, to which clothes and other objects were sacrificed and thus won her protection, the early ethnographer Olaus Magnus wrote in his ‘Historia’ wrote in 1555. Magnus pointed out the significance of the Blå Jungfrun and stated that “seafarers in the vicinity were not to call the island Blåkulla, because then a tremendous storm immediately would brew”. Apart from being the legendary meeting place of witches, it carries several taboo and noa names and is one of the most frequented sites of sailor´s baptism in the Baltic. Olaus Magnus testifies on offerings here in 1555. A large stone labyrinth is built on its massive undulating rocks. The sacred status of these sites is obvious, not only from testimonies of tradition. In 1741 Carl von Linné visited Blåkulla, another name given to the island even then. But the stay does not seem to have appealed to him, since he describes his visit as follows: “If any place in the world looks horrible, this certainly is one of the most atrocious”. Carl von Linné was also the first to mention the Trolleborg labyrinth on the mysterious island. Apart from evidence of Stone Age rituals the island has long been linked with tales of witchcraft, supernatural powers and curses. The island has long been an important landmark that also used to predict weather. It also has many ancient caves that have fascinated people from time immemorial. It was believed that they could have been entrances to the dwellings of trolls and other mythical creatures. “In two caves, distinct ritual features were identified.” caves contain diverse bone material. Blue Maiden seems to be a place”at all times” associated with various kinds of taboos and mythological beliefs. At the same time, surprisingly little is known about people’s relationship to and presence on the island in the past. Nobody knows how long the Trolleborg labyrinth has laid there on the rock. Or who put it there and why. What is known is that setting up labyrinths in the archipelago was rather common in the past. Often people walked in them as a ritual – for fertility, good fishing luck or a calm sea on the way home. During four days in late May 2014 the island was surveyed but only at selected locations, where researchers dug test pits. The uninhabited Blue Maiden or Blåkulla island has many secrets from the past and it’s still much to investigate in granite’s cracks, caves and niches created by million-year-old boulders on the island – the ‘meeting-place of witches’. ==== >>[ fascinating stuff, indeed ] |
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Post by deuce on May 12, 2016 21:53:46 GMT -5
Probaby the first place that many American sf/fantasy fans discovered the Kalevala: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wall_of_SerpentsResearch for this project was probably where de Camp decided to use elements from the Kalevala for Conan pastiches set in Hyperborea (Lin Carter added the leotard wandsmen). Myself, I learned about the Kalevala by way of JRRT around age 13. I didn't read the "Harold Shea" novella until I was 19-20.  |
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Post by deuce on May 12, 2016 22:05:07 GMT -5
Emil Petaja was a major figure in "First Fandom" and corresponded with REH in 1936: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_PetajaRather than Finnish literature influencing Robert E. Howard, it could be said that REH affected Finnish-American literature. I have to say that I found Petaja's "Saga of Lost Earths" series based on the Kalevala about average. That doesn't mean someone couldn't grab the torch and try again. As it is, I prefer the works of Mika Waltari (Finland's most famous novelist).  |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2016 2:58:03 GMT -5
Hi Venaala. the story of a widow called Agata Pekantyär is very instructive. Agata worked a sizeable farm in Ulvila. Like most of those accused of witchcraft and vidskepelse [benevolent magic], but contrary to some modern popular beliefs, she was neihter old nor poor. She was linked to some of the cases already described. She appeared as a witness in the aforementioned case of defamation, for example, and the aunt of the man supposedly killed by Heikki Yrjönpoika Janckari and Risto Olavipoinka had previously accused Agata of vidskepelse. The web of accusations and counter-accusations at this period obviously trapped a significant portion of the parish. Agata found herself prosecuted for 'benevolent' magic in 1675 and 1676, and on both occasions she was merely sentenced to pay fines. >>>> Ten years later she was accused of flying to **Blåkulla**, a famous witches' meeting place where extraordinary sabbaths occurred, and also charged once again for benevolent magic. The jury considered the accusation concerning Agata's flight to Blåkulla less than reliable, and it was remarked that the witness who made the allegation was prone to drinking too much. Some of the other accusations took a little longer to refute, but refuted they were and she was finally acquitted. At the end of the 1690s a fourth accusation about her activities was aired but never came to court, although the rumour was mentioned in a separate trial to clear the reputation of another alleged witch. ==== >> i like the name **BLAKULLA**. [ sounds a bit like 'dracula', eh? ] -- have you heard of it ? Thankyou for your post, Bux! I haven't heard of this particular witch before, propably because I concentrate on folklore and myth before heavy Christianism.
The "fly on broomtick to the mountain" is an Europe-wide phenomenon, particularily in Christian countries, and a claim often used by inquisition to back their accusations. That way, this kind of witchery is brought from abroad, and not really a finnish thing.
The witches convicted of witchery in this way could well have been just women, who had stepped over the social boundaries or in some way angered the wrong person - accusing someone you didn't like of witchery was a fairly easy way to get rid of them after all. The use of Swedish terms like Blåkulla (you recognize the difference between finnish and Swedish text quite easily by the letter å, only in Swedish) - shows that atleast the judges and jury in this case were of Swedish descend. The accused likely wouldn't have even known that term, because she was a finn (Pekantytär is clear finnish and means "daughter of Pekka". I find it peculiar, that her name wasn't written "Pekkasdåttir" - same thing in Swedish form. It would have suited the otherwise Swedish context. Because she was Pekantytär, she must have been considered purely finnish.) It is possible, that this woman was a victim of Swedish authorities backing up their influense in the land they "owned" at that time.
The way you described the locations and all about the flying island is really imaginative and interesting! Sadly this still falls more on the Christian and Swedish folk-lore section and I don't know anything about it.  If I really want to look for similarities between Blåkulla and finnish folk-lore, I am reminded of "the Island of maidens". Lemminkäinen (that lucky bastard), a hero of Kalevala, ran away after killing the lord of Pohjola, and set as a refuge on an island on that same sea, that was full of women. Thus replied the Island-maidens: "There are places on this island,
On these plains a spot befitting
Where to hide thyself in safety,
Hero-son of little valor.
Here are many, many castles,
Many courts upon this island;
Though there come a thousand heroes,
Though a thousand spearmen follow,
Thou canst hide thyself in safety." There is no reference to any sort of witchcraft practiced by these women in Kalevala. However, we must remember, that if such an island was witnessed by a Christian, it would likely get a reference to witches, because all these women were pagans. Who knows, maybe there once was such an island?
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Post by buxom9sorceress on May 16, 2016 11:07:30 GMT -5
Venaala Thanks for your extra info. I too am much more interested in folklore before christianity took over. But it's hard to find? [ christian monks /priests wrote down so much that we have lots of info from the christian-era archives ] -- it seems that the Blakulla isle has been visited for many thousands of years by cults from all over the surrounding areas? That fascinates me very much. ==== >>>> here is more good info about the mysterious island... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bl%C3%A5_Jungfrunits all interesting detail, but this section [below] is the most significant regarding supernatural powers [ curses ]... "The many water polished stones on the beaches of Blå Jungfrun are illegal to remove from the island because of its national park status. And according to tradition, anyone who steals a stone from the island will suffer from bad luck until it is returned. The town of Oskarshamn yearly receives stones from former Blå Jungfrun visitors, often with an accompanying letter describing misfortunes and disasters which happened to the letter writers after removing them. In May 2004, over 160 such stones were publicly brought back to the island on a ferry from Oskarshamn." ==== |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 14:37:23 GMT -5
Singers & sorcerers
Runonlaulu / poem-singing (some call it rune-singing*shrug* Go figure)
When we talk about finnish folk-lore,we cannot pass the epic book Kalevala. It is a collection of poems, sagas if you will, sung by the common people especially in Carelia. In this thread I’d like to open the importanse of song in ancient finnish culture, and what we have left of it,
”Poem-singers received their knowledge and skill by listenign to others, who knew the poems by heart. The poem-measure made it possible to memorize even extendedly long poems. In Finland and in nearby linguistically related areas, the poem-singers used the 8 beat Kalevala-measure.” - So says the finnish Wikipedia-page about the matter.
The finnish poem-singing traditions is without doubt as old as the kalevala-measure, which is concidered thousands of years old.
The first preserved particles of finnish poem singing are from the 1700’s, but only with the raise of new nationalistic-romantic movement in the 1800’s turned the interest of those who could read and write to them. Expeditions and long journeys to the forests of Finland with the purpose of collecting lore began.
From 1 300 000 collected poems, Elias Lönnrot took the best ones and published them in Kalevala. The rest were published in the largest song collection of all time: “The old poems of the people of Finland.”
Yes, we see them as poems, but while reading the Kalevala we must remember, that we are reading song-lyrics.
Yet, this collection is only a small fracture of what Lönnrot and other poem-collectors heard on their travels. And unknown poem-collector at the begin of 1800’s wrote as this:
“The closer I got to the highlands, the more common singing became. I heard it from the yard while I was in the house, and from the room when I was outside. In the summertime, when people were on the fields or in the forest, they sung, like birds, thorough the day. The songs are born on their own, come to the singing mouth by themselves.”
Another poem-collector, 1915, never forgets Anni, an 11 year old girl whom he met on his travels. For 11 hours she produced new and yet new melody and poem, unstopping and continuously, while doing her daily household duties.
Once upon a time, singing in ancient Finland seems to have been a way of life indeed. The line between singing-non singing and talk was as thin as was the line between singing and spell-casting.
The word poem “runo” in finnish comes from the word “runoi” which means a spellchanter, a singing shaman.
Henricus Gabriel Porthan, Poesi Fennica 1762 “Poem-singing is never done without the help of Bacchus”
It is evident, that skillfull poem-singers were considered wizards or sorerers. Singing was – in a way, considered an otherworldly activity and thus a skillfull singer possessed great power. The word for a wizard, in Kalevala the age-old Väinämöinen, was called “tietäjä”. It means “knower”, and describes that knowledge was considered a way to power, even the unnatural. A poem-singer possessed knowledge, such as the origin of the world and the birth of various things – which are important elements in spell-casting. For spellcasting, one also needed to know the right songs.
J.R.R.Tolkien adapted much of this thought while he wrote his own story, where the world was made by song, and where that song is still going on, endlessly.
Sadly today, only one man is alive, who we can call a true poem-singer. One, that learned his verses from his parents who learned from theirs, who learned form theirs...
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