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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2016 13:33:05 GMT -5
Yeah, it is a shame that the old ways are disappearing. When tribes converted to the major religions like Christianity, Islam or Buddhism, the role of the shaman was at best diminished or worst demonized. During the soviet era shaman drums were destroyed and shamanism was practiced by Siberian peoples in secrecy from the authorities. The Soviets also took away Siberian children to be assimilated in Russian boarding schools. Once you can not speak your mother tongue, that connection not only to your family and tribe is lost, but to a whole way of life. The languages of these peoples, at least from my experience are a lot more expressive and nuanced towards nature and the spiritual world. For example a Yakut or Altai will sing like a bird, mimic the sounds of nature. To a Siberian, the mountains, valleys, steppes and surroundings take on a different significance. In comparison, the Uzbeks and Turkmen are linguistically related to the Altai people, but they live in towns and cities and adopted the Islamic religion. They don't get it anymore, their spiritual vocabulary is reduced, the words are no longer necessary, and the new religion, in this case Islam provides that role. The Uzbek lyrics tend to be generic love songs or Pop songs from Turkey etc... The spiritual connection has long been severed, which is a shame. I totally agree, that languages all over the world are getting a lot more neutral Although I am not an expert on languages I still live in a world that is full of locations described by some word that I don't really know the meaning of. They are the old finnish that has for large part been forgotten. We still have our different words for different kinds of snow etc. that is characteristic for languages born and used close to nature. They do make such languages very powerful and poetic because they are very descriptive because they tell of the nature of the subject of talk...you got the idea. It really saddens me, that a lot of these words are already forgotten and are still BEING forgotten on purpose. Only a coupe of year ago our "rag"(rätti) in the dictionary turned into "cleaning-cloth"(siivouspyyhe). It vexed me immensely because I think that "rag" describes the thing a hundred times better than something lame like "cleaning-cloth"! This is just an example of languages growing poorer, as we spread further from the environment in which they are born and used in.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 8:42:36 GMT -5
Story time! The legend of "Halfbarrel-Erkki"
September 1795. An unexpected guest arrives in the rectory of Muonio, Lapland. He called himself by the name Müller. Vicar Kolström had not invited him. He arrived without warning, in the middle of restless times in Europe, and stayed for over a year. Fourty years later, a french expedition arrives in Lapland. Along with them the royal painter of the French court, François Biard. He had come to Lapland, to capture on canvas the memories of his master's visit, years ago, and bring them back to Versailles, France. His master was Louis-Philippe I
The Duke of Orleans, later to become the King of France, Louis-Philippe, travelled for years around Europe and Scandinavia, wearing the name Müller. The dangerous political climate between the end of 1700 and beginning of 1800 had forced Louis-Philippe to remain in exile for over 20 years, and eventually dare the cold north aswell. He visited Scandinavia in 1795 and then moved on to Finland. For about a year, he stayed in Muonio (in the valley of Tornio river), a remote village at the Lapland living in the rectory under the name Müller as a guest of the local Lutheran vicar.
In Muonio, young ”Müller” had a romance with the vicar’s wife’s sister, Beata-Caisa, who was able to speak german. Eventually Mr. Müller went on his way, despite Beata-Caisa having become pregnant. The pregnancy was a thing of shame, and kept in secrecy. Beata-Caisa lived the last months of pregnancy in the fishing-hut of the rectory. There she gave birth to a son; Erik. The child’s first cradle was a fish-barrel, cut in half. In one of these half-barrels he was smuggled back into the rectory, where he grew up among other children. From his birth, the child was known as “Halfbarrel-Erkki”.
Years later, King Louis-Philippe sent his court-painter, Francois Biard to Muonio, to make a painting of Halfbarrel-Erkki and Beata-Caisa. The order of the king to the court-painter is well documented and detailed, yet only recently been brought to light.
In the painting, the king is portrayed among the Sami-people,next to Beata-Caisa. Light illuminates the child. In reality, Louis-Philippe never met Erik.
Year 1848, Louis-Philippe gave up his crown. Louis Napoleon Bonaparte was chosen as the new President, and later on became the Emperor. The life of Halfbarrel-Erkki was a hapless one. His mother Beata-Caisa was often sick and got in bad terms with the vicar. The mother and son had no money. In the town of Enontekiö, Erik met his future wife Margareta Heta. The couple moved together here and there, living a very lowly life, fishing and hunting. Eventualy they settle down n Ruija. They had many children and grandchildren, who are today, - thanks to historical research, very aware of their heritage.
The first documented acceptance of Erik as the son of Louis-Philippe, came from the French overnment in 1974. The cultural ministry of france called his living descendant Olof Kolström to Paris, to partake in the opening ceremony of the royal archives.
The paintings are today found in Versailles, and debate on wether they should be borrowed to Finland, are in the works.
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Post by deuce on Aug 14, 2016 18:14:50 GMT -5
Never knew that! Louis certainly did badly by Beata-Caisa and their child. Very tragic.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 7:44:51 GMT -5
Venaala Thanks for your extra info. I too am much more interested in folklore before christianity took over. But it's hard to find? [ christian monks /priests wrote down so much that we have lots of info from the christian-era archives ] -- it seems that the Blakulla isle has been visited for many thousands of years by cults from all over the surrounding areas? That fascinates me very much. ==== >>>> here is more good info about the mysterious island... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bl%C3%A5_Jungfrunits all interesting detail, but this section [below] is the most significant regarding supernatural powers [ curses ]... "The many water polished stones on the beaches of Blå Jungfrun are illegal to remove from the island because of its national park status. And according to tradition, anyone who steals a stone from the island will suffer from bad luck until it is returned. The town of Oskarshamn yearly receives stones from former Blå Jungfrun visitors, often with an accompanying letter describing misfortunes and disasters which happened to the letter writers after removing them. In May 2004, over 160 such stones were publicly brought back to the island on a ferry from Oskarshamn." ====
I thought that I had seen that kind of stone-circles before! These are from Lapland.
Similar in comparison to the stones of Blåkulla. What is the significanse of these places? One can only imagine.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2016 10:58:23 GMT -5
"Kings", "Giants", and "Giant kings" ?
Historians in general agree, that the society in Finland had not been developed in the same pace to other Baltic and scandinavian countries. However, Finland had it’s own “kings”, chieftains and local mighty-men. It is proven by many graves containing valuable metal items from the Roman age and the bronze-age. The frontlines drawn by ancient fortresses speak strongly about a society, that was atleast in some degree, an organized one. It is admittable, that Finland as a country, did not exist in the sense, that a countries are usually considered to exist. However, It was lived by scattered people, who shared a strongly similar culture, language and habits, which differed from the surrounding world so much, that it highlighted itself as a land, and a nation, from very early ages. About the concept of kings...
What comes to the “Kings” of Finland, we most likely talk about tribal chieftains, and other strong men that have managed leadership over certain hunting areas. But what is to be considered a King? Is rulership and control of land and people not enough for the title of a king? It appears that in foreign sources, which date BEFORE the time that Finland was ruled by Sweden, these tribal chieftains were sometimes referred to, with the word “king”. The rulership of Sweden highlights a clear change in the way Finland is portrayed in historical writings. Ofcourse it is politically benefitial for the swedes to say, that there was nothing in Finland before they came. But that is a ridiculous statement. Especially, since the swedes themselves have told differently, for example in Ynglinga –saga. In it, swedish Snorri Sturluson whites about the wars and marriages between the swedish and finnish royalty. The tone changed, when the interest of churches and states turned to the rich fur and tar tources of the finnish woodlands, but that turn didn't come easy. In 1340 swedish accounts of finnish church-books, were mentioned “King of Rapola”, as someone who had refused to pay taxes to the Swedish church. The village of Rapola is a location of one of Finland’s largest ancient fortresses. Due to old Nordic sources, The king of Norway, Harald Fair-hair, was married to a “finn-princess” Snöfrid. Harad Fair-hair is a historical character, but for some reason the existanse of Snöfrid has been doubted, even though they had a son, Sigurd, who later on became the ancestor of Harald the Stern. The term “King of finns” appears also in Edda –poem, in the song of Völundrin. The mythical Völundr-smith is called both, the son of a finnish king, and the king of the elves. Danske historian Saxo Grammaticus, mentions Finland and the finnish people in several references in his book about the history of Denmark. Of the kings of Finland he mentions Sumble and Kuso. In these references the kings of Finland are mentioned, when their daughters are to be wooed. However, the historical accurancy of Saxo’s writings has not been proven. Arab geographer, Muhammad al-Idrisi, writes in his book, Tabula Rogeriana 1154, that the king of Finland has provinces close to the Arctic Ocean. Egilli’s saga about Grim the Bald was written down in 1230-1240. It tells that the king of Kvenland (Kainuu/North-east Finland) called Faravid, allied with a Norwegian chieftain Thorolf. They made a raiding trip to Carelia (east-south Finland) with great success. The name Faravid sounds ancient Norwegian, but there is no such a name among the Scandinavians. Thus it has been considered a translation from a finnish name, such as Kaukomieli(Far-minded), which is another name of Lemminkäinen, from Kalevala. The story about Faravid does not contain such essences, which could be considered mythical. (Like unnatural phenomenon, gods, of other myth material) There is more, but let's move on already... ---------------
Giants
In Finland, the giants are usualyl called Jatuli, Jotuni, Meteli, Jatuli, and so on… These terms are close to the norvegian word of the same meaning; jötul and jotunn. These words remain attached to numerous places on the finnish and lappish map, like “Metelinmäki” (Giant’s hill) In Finland, aswell as in other places, the giants are used to explain the birth of natural landscape, such as rock-formations lakes and rivers. Same goes for many pre-historic sites, like giant’s churches and giant’s barns, and other stone structures. Often the stories about giants entwine with the arrival of Christianity. The giants are painted as the enemies of the Christians. In the tales, the giants often withdraw away from the spreading Christianity, because they can’t stand hearing the church-bells, or simply do not want to meet any Christians. In this reference they remind of other mythical settlers and angestors of the Baltic countries. The book of Kalevala ends to the arrival of Christianity, and the leaving of Väinämöinen. Especially Kainuu, Kvenland, in North-east Finland, is known for it’s giants. For example, so wrote Kristfrid Ganander in Mythologia Fennica 1789. In his book he tells about a strong and bold giant called Kaleva, who had 12 sons. Those same 12 sons appear in Estonian mythology, as the early settlers and builders of the land. Väinämöinen and Ilmarinen of the finnish epic Kalevala, have been considered to be sons of Kaleva. They lived in their father’s provinces in Paltamo – Kainuu. Kalevipoeg, from Estonian stories. There is no clear historical evidence about the sons of Kaleva. The finnish connection to the Estonian mythology is without doubt, however. To find the right tiign for it you must go beyond the Viking times, because due to archeological evidence, countership between finns and Estonians diminished in the 800 and 900 Ac. The similarities of the story-base tells about the people’s connection before that. There is, however, one interesting detail to be found elsewhere: Old Russian tales tell of a prince who hired a giant to help him conquer Russia from Estonia to Kiev. The giant's name was Calewa. After finishing this task the prince gave the giant Kvenland as his own kingdom.
A quirky seed of truth:3 out of 10 of world’s tallest people are finns.The family history of the tallest peopel in Europe trails back to Paltamo and Puolanka, in Kainuu.
The map of Olaus Magnus from 1500's is full of action! This is a caption that portrays northern Finland. An interesting detail may catch your eye; that very tall man in the upper corner. He holds the tables of law, which are written in primmitive text much older than other text in this map. At his feet is a lion, and a sword, all these are signia of royalty. Just a fun detail
Finland is not by any means the ONLY country in the world that has giants! Just a famous one for them. Is there a thread about giants in these forums? I'd like to be aquainted with giants fro all over the world!
--------------------------------------------------From myth to reality rulers
Why do I consider these small references essential, in the history-viewer’s eye? An why do I connect finnish giants to old kings, and tale to reality? Because the veil of mystery, and the possibilities is, what makes it significant. The fact, that no-one truly knows, but everyone knows the tales, has been used to create true history of this world, which is now, very real to us. Old Scandinavian sagas may not be alltogether reliable as the sources of knowledge about history. Still, the general idea about “Vikings” is based just on these sagas and stories. For that reason it is interesting to know, what these sagas tell about Finland, and finns.
The kings and chieftains, that ruled big and small plots of land across Skandinavia, held a good number of skalds and poets in their favor. These skalds and poets preformed in feasts and parties and gatherings, and entertained the crowd. Their lyrics told about ancient myths and current events, and naturally they did NOT sing unrespectfully about their hosts, or spoke false about them. For that reason, in the courts and houses of Svea, Norway, Danmark, Orkney-islands and Normandia, the poets praised their masters by singing about their real aswell and imagined heritage, with proud words! After all, the ancient society aprechiated a high bloodline. Only the oldest and nobles families could boast with ancestors, that belonged in the ancient time of myth and tale: Gods, giants, and kings of Finland. It is clear, that a skald who wanted to keep his head attached and who wanted to eat from the chief’s table, would not sing such references about his host, the Earl of Orkney, or the king of Norway, if they did not like it. The finnish angestors of royal families, were apparently considered very real by the common people of those times, and held in high regard. If a ruler could beleavably portray himself as the son of an ancient finnish royalty, it lifted his status to a near mythical level, and improved his legitime right to rule. “Blood” was, by the standard of those times, the ultimate source of that right. The golden age of Sagas was likely 600 – 800 AC. but they were not written down before 1200. One of the scribers to do so was Snorri Sturluson, and Icelandic catholic priest. For example the sagas of the heritage of Earl of the Orkeney-islands, is from his pen.No one knows exactly, wether the skalds or Sturluson were correct about teir claims, because there is no true written evidence before this. But one thing we can be sure of: Some of the influential of the pre-medieval time northern Europe; Harald Fair-hair, The Duke of Normandy Wilhelm, and many others, considered themselves to be straight descendants of finnish kings ad giants, and were very proud of it! To connect his bloodline to Finland, the ”land of giants”, was in the viking age the priviledge of few and mighty. No one likely could doubt this connection, when looking at the first Duke of Normandia, Rollo. “Walker-Rolf” was such a big man, that he could not ride a horse. While other normandias rode to battle, Rollo ran roaring after them. How else? His ancestor was, after all, the ancient giant Forntjot from Finland.
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Post by buxom9sorceress on Sept 18, 2016 11:46:07 GMT -5
>>VENAALA said: "Finland is not by any means the ONLY country in the world that has giants! Just a famous one for them. Is there a thread about giants in these forums? I'd like to be aquainted with giants fro all over the world! " ==== >>>> watch these on youtube Megalithic Giants: Lost History. Hugh Newman. [58m, lecture ancient giants [ 50m Hovind: giants cover up [ 35m ==== the covered up huge truth about giants in history is fascinating and amazing. ==== and thanks for all your posts in here. fascinating info.
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Post by deuce on Sept 21, 2016 11:53:33 GMT -5
Kochergin's "Lemminkainen Comes to Pohjola":
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Post by buxom9sorceress on Oct 4, 2016 0:33:12 GMT -5
That is a bloody terrible long way from finland to crimea. Some men are more evil than the devil.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2016 1:51:37 GMT -5
That is a bloody terrible long way from finland to crimea. Some men are more evil than the devil. I agree, an interesting and disturbing read.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2016 2:56:20 GMT -5
That is a bloody terrible long way from finland to crimea. Some men are more evil than the devil. According to this documentary things have not changed much. This documentary shows how women from all over Eastern Europe are taken to the Ukrainian port of Odessa, and then sold on as sex-slaves in Istanbul. This documentary is disturbing - there are some incredibly sad stories.
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Post by deuce on Jan 15, 2017 23:15:53 GMT -5
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Post by deuce on Feb 5, 2017 3:33:13 GMT -5
Kalevala is a Finnish folk-metal band. Pretty cool.
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