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Post by kemp on Aug 27, 2018 8:58:13 GMT -5
Turkish folk Metal. I am reminded of some of the stuff I have heard from Finland. Probably not surprising since the Finns and Turks have an ancient connection. Yaşru - Atalara (Official Video) Thanks for the Altaic (Turkish/Mongol) Folk metal videos. Here's the lyrics and an English translation. Atalara (roughly translates as To the Ancestors). Gök mavi bayrağın altında
Beneath the sky-blue flag
Karlı dağların ardında
Beyond the snowcapped mountains
Kutlu bir budun yaşarmış
Live a fortunate people
Göktanrı'ya inancı varmış
they Believe in Sky-Tengri.
Odun başında oturur bir kam
Sitting before the hearth-fire, a shaman
Alkışını yapar karanlıklardan
Makes his/her prayer through the darkness
Kam türe vurduğunda
When the shaman beats the drum,
Karanlık ruhlar kaybolduğunda
When the dark spirits fade away,
Gökbörü ulur ay ışığında
The blue wolf howls under the moonlight :
Bin selam olsun ulu atalara
A thousand greetings to the great ancestorsI watched this one at my brother's place, liked hearing it in the original Turkish, but thought it would be good to get an English translation. Cool, and Tengri of the blue sky is mentioned too I see. Also the wolf, an important totem animal of the ancient Turks. Cheers
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 13:49:04 GMT -5
Another one from Daiqing Tana (Daichin Tanaa in Mongolian) from Qinghai, China.
Qinghai Lake (Khökh Nuur in Mongolian, translates as Blue Lake) by Daichin Tana.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 13:44:47 GMT -5
XIANBEI SITES DISCOVERED IN MONGOLIA FOR THE FIRST TIMEHere's an article concerning recent finds in Mongolia attributed to the Xianbei, an Altaic confederation of tribes that eventually conquered northern China between the 4th-6th centuries. Link: montsame.mn/en/read/16498Ulaanbaatar /MONTSAME/ On August 24, researchers at the National Museum of Mongolia presented the new findings of Xiongnu, Xianbei and Turkic periods discovered in Uvs, Khuvsgul, Orkhon and Tuv aimags .The research team of the National Museum started excavations at the site of Airagiin Gozgor in Jargalant soum of Orkhon aimag in 2014. They have documented over 100 tombs at the site and explored 16 of them. The burials found in the graves were similar to the Xianbei burials found in Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region of China and the items found in tombs were similar too. It was proven that the burials were made in 3rd century BC and according to paleoanthropological studies, the human appearances were similar with the Xiongnus and Xianbeis.
As a result of the research, the Xianbei remains were discovered for the first time in Mongolia, making tangible contribution to the ancient history studies. It is important for solving a number of uncertain issues in history of Xianbei.In addition to this research, there are six projects under implementation, including Xiongnu research at the Shiiter site in Tseel soum of Tuv aimag, Turkic research Khaya Khudag and Gun burd sites in Delgerkhaan soum of Khentii aimag, ‘Shiiter’ and ‘Kherlen’ research projects on ‘Western Mongolia’ in Zuunkhangai soum of Uvs aimag. The projects are being implemented jointly by the researchers and scholars from the Western Kentucky University, National Museum of China, International Turkic Academy and Korea.
“As a result of the projects, we are opening a new page of Mongolian ancient history research. The most remarkable research was the one to document the Xianbei sites with archeological finds in Mongolia for the first time. Most of the Xianbei history were documented with Chinese historical texts, but with the new finds, we will be able to look back at the history of nomads who lived in the north of the Great Wall and rewrite it. Moreover, as a result of the ‘Kherlen’ Turkic research project, rare finds of Turkic funeral and worship rituals were discovered. We will publish the outcomes of the research and introduce to the public jointly with the Institute of History and archeology and the NUM Department of History,” said Director of the National Museum D.Sukhbaatar.
The findings will be conserved at the National Museum of Mongolia. Currently, the museum has the Hall of Xiongnu and Turkic periods, and it has been decided to place the findings separately in the halls of Xiongnu, Xianbei and Turkic periods.
Words by B.Misheel.
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Post by deuce on Sept 9, 2018 2:52:19 GMT -5
Pretty good doc right here:
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 13:48:39 GMT -5
The Irk Bitig or 'The Book of Omens" The Irk Bitig or 'The Book of Omens" is the earliest extant 'book' written in the Turkic runic script. It was found along with other manuscripts at the Mogao Caves in Dunhuang, (Caves/Halls of the Thousand Buddhas) China, by Aurel Stein in 1907. The Irk Bitig now resides at the British Library, London. I managed to see the book at the British Library a few years ago at the Silk Road Exhibition, or something like that, can't remember the name of the exhibition. Anyways, in general, the runic script is almost identical to the Türk (Göktürk) & Uygur inscriptions in Mongolia.
The date of the book is unknown; according to the colophon at the very end of the Omens below, the manuscript was written "on the fifteenth day of the second month, in the year of tiger". The French Turcologist/orientalist Louis Bazin suggested the 17 March 930 or 4 March 942. However, Talat Tekin dates the book a century earlier, the translation below is from Talat Tekin’s (Irk bitig: The Book of Omens, Wiesbaden, 1993).Here’s an explanation of how the game (divination) works, sorry the paragraph below is a copy & paste job from Wikipedia. 'The main text of the book comprises 65 sections, each representing a particular divination, which is headed by three groups of between one and four circles filled with red ink. These three groups of circles are the omen (ırk in Old Turkic) that are the subject of the divination, and are thought to represent the pips on a four-sided dice made from a rectangular piece of wood that would be thrown three times (or three such dice thrown once) as part of the divination ceremony. The groups of circles are followed by a short explanation of their meaning, such as "I am a white-spotted falcon. I enjoy sitting on a sandal-wood tree" (no.4), "A man comes hurriedly. He comes bringing good tiding" (no.7), and "An old ox was eaten by ants, gnawing around its belly. It lays down without being able to move" (no.37). After the explanation is a prognostication in the form "Know thus, it is ..." "good" (33 times), "very good" (7 times), "bad" (17 times) or "very bad" (2 times). In a few cases the prognostication after "know thus" is missing.' en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irk_BitigI guess a pic is worth a thousand words:Do you wanna play this ancient Turkic game? Pour yourself some kumiz and roll the four-sided dice and check out the combination found in red below for the outcome
...and know thus: this book of divination is good. Thus, everyone is master of his/her own fate. Irk Bitig: The Book of Omens
1. 2-2-2 I am Ten-si ('Son of Heaven', i.e. the Chinese Emperor). In the morning and evening, I enjoy sitting on the golden throne. Know thus: (The omen) is good. 2. 4-4-4 I am the road god (Yol Tengri) with a dappled horse. (Early) in the morning and (late) in the evening I amble along. (This road god) apparently met two joyful human beings. The human beings were afraid. (The road god) said: 'Do not be afraid! I will give you (my) divine favor'. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
3. 3-3-3 I am a predatory eagle with golden wings. Although the feathers of my body are not yet fully grown, lying down by the sea, I catch what I please (and) I eat what I like. That powerful am I. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
4. 1-1-1 I am a white-spotted falcon. I enjoy sitting on a sandal-wood tree. Know thus:
5. 2-4-2 A beg (lord) went to (look at) his horses (and saw that) his white mare had just foaled. (He thought): it would fit to be a golden-hoofed stallion. He went to (look at) his camels (and saw that) his white she camel had just given birth to a colt. (He thought): it would fit to be a camel stallion with a golden nose peg. He went to (look at) his house (and saw that) his third princess had just given birth to a son. (He thought): he would fit to be a beg, it says. Apparently he was a happy beg. Know thus: (The omen) is extremely good.
6. 1-2-2 A bear and a boar met on a mountain pass. (At fight) the bear's belly was slit open (and) the boar's tusks were broken, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
7. 2-1-2 A man comes hurriedly. He comes bringing good tidings, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
8. 1-2-3 I am a golden-headed snake. Cutting my golden stomach with a sword, pluck my self out of (its) hole (and) pluck my head out of its house, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
9. 3-2-1 A big house was burnt down. Nothing remained right to its floors (and) nothing was left right to its corners, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
10. 2-4-3 I am a yawning leopard. Among the reeds is my head. That brave (and) capable am I. Know thus:
11. 4-4-3 There comes a messenger on a yellow horse (and) an envoy on a dark brown horse, bringing good tidings, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is extremely good.
12. 3-4-3 A man went hunting. (There) he fell to the ground (and said): In heaven is mighty god, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
13. 3-4-2 A devout old woman remained (alone) in a deserted camp. She kept herself alive by licking a greasy ladle (and thus) she escaped death, it says. Know thus:
14. 2-3-4 They fastened a raven to a tree. 'Fasten it firmly and well!', it says. Know thus:
15. 1-4-1 The fog was hanging above (and) the dust was rising below. The young birds lost their way flying, the young deer lost their way running (and) the children lost their way walking. And again, by the grace of Heaven, they all met in the third year, safe and sound. They all rejoiced and were glad, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
16. 2-1-4 A lean horse fattened itself (on a pasture). (Then), thinking of its place, it went running (towards it). (On its way home) a thief came across. He caught and mounted it. (The horse), having galled up to its mane (and) its tail, stands still without being able to move, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
17. 2-3-3 A favorite horse came to a standstill in a desert exhausted and wilting. Thanks to the strength given by Heaven, having seen way (and) water on a mountain (and) having seen fresh grass on a mountain pasture, it went (there) walking. (Thus), drinking the water (and) eating the fresh (grass) it escaped death, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
18. 2-4-1 What is the inside of the tent frame like? What is its smoke hole like? What is its window like? It can be seen through. How is its roof? It is good. How are its ropes? They are all there, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is very good.
19. 4-1-3 A white horse, having chosen its adversary in three states of existence, sent it to a dumb for praying, it says. 'Fear not, pray well; do not be afraid, implore well!' it says. Know thus: (the omen) is good.
20. 2-2-3 I am a camel stallion (with a herd of) females. I scatter my white froth. It reaches the sky above (and) penetrates the earth below. I go on my way waking those who were asleep (and) rousing those who were lying down. That powerful am I. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
21. 3-3-1 An old hoopoe sang before (the new) year dawned. 'Don't get excited, don't look at it (and) don't frighten it!', it says. Know thus:
22. 1-1-2 A woman dropped her mirror into a lake. She mumbles in the morning (and) mutters to herself in the evening. Know thus: it is distressing (and) very bad.
23. 4-4-2 A boy found the dung of an eagle. 'Lark! May your flesh enjoy divine favor!', he says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
24. 3-1-3 A blind foal looks for an udder on a stallion. After having lost it at midday, where and how would it find it at midnight?, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
25. 3-1-3 (A man) harnessed two oxen to one wooden plough. They stand still without being able to move, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
26. 4-2-1 The dawn broke and the earth became bright and the sun rose (and) the light shone over everything. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
27. 4-2-2 A rich man's sheep went away in a fright. lt met a wolf. The wolf's mouth (somehow) got poisonous. (Thus, the sheep) became safe and sound, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
28. 2-1-1 After having ascended the throne, a khan built a royal camp. His realm remained (firm). The good (and) skillful men in all quarters of the world, having assembled (there), rejoice and adorn (his court), it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
29. 4-3-2 A man whose job is to hollow out slaughtered animals, staking his sons and womenfolk, went to hollow out internal organs and intestines (of slaughtered animals). So far from losing his sons and womenfolk he yet won ninety loose sheep. His sons and womenfolk all rejoice, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
30. 4-2-3 A poor man's son went out to earn money. His journey was successful. He comes (back) rejoicing and happily. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
31. 1-4-4 A tiger went to look for game and prey. It found its game and prey. After having found it comes to its den rejoicing and happily, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
32. 1-1-3 One spriaea (meadowsweet) became a hundred; a hundred spiraeas became a thousand (and) a thousand spiraeas became ten thousand. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
33. 4-2-4 (A man) put the felt into water. Beat it more (and) tie it tightly, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
34. 2-4-4 A khan went on a campaign (and) routed the enemy. He comes (back) permitting (his soldiers) to nomadize and settle down (wherever they please). He himself and his soldiers come toward his royal camp rejoicing and happily, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
35. 4-3-4 A man went to the army (in war). On (his) way (back home) his horse became tired. (Then) the man met a swan. The swan placed (him) on its wings (and) flew up with him. (Thus) it brought hjm to his mother and father. His mother (and) his father rejoice (and) take pleasure, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
36. 4-1-1 You don't have the pleasure of a man bearing many titles. ( On the other hand, however), you are not afraid of having a poor reputation. (In short), you don't have a good fortune to be celebrated with flying flags, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is very bad.
37. 1-3-4 An old ox was eaten by ants, gnawing around its belly. It lays down without being able to move, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
38. 3-1-4 (A slave girl) remained (alone) among the reeds. Heaven was not pleased with it. 'May (this) slave girl be a queen!', it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
39. 2-2-4 They fettered a roan horse crosswise. It stands, without being able to move, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
40. 4-4-1 A bold youth marches alone, opening (his) shoulder, striking and splitting the bare rock with a broad arrow-head, it says. That tough and powerful was he. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
41. 3-2-4 A white-spotted cow was on the point of calving. She said: 'I am about to die!' (Nevertheless) she gave birth to a white-spotted bull calf. It would be suitable to dedicate it to Heaven, (for the cow was (thus) saved from (her) fate, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
42. 4-1-4 A woman went away, leaving behind her cups and bowls. Then she (stopped and) thought thoroughly. 'Where am I going apart from my cups and bowls?' she says. She again came back (and) found her cups and bowls safe and sound. She rejoices (and) becomes delighted, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
43. 3-3-4 A falcon went hunting river birds. (Suddenly) a predatory eagle flew up to meet it, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
44. 1-4-2 A hawk, saying (to itself) 'Here is a hare!', (flew) down from the sky (and tried to) catch it. The hawk's claws were skinned and torn. The hawk flew up and went away with its claws worn out; (and) the hare ran away with its skin torn off. Thus it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
45. 1-3-2 I am a deer calf. How shall I be able (to manage) without water and grass? How shall I walk along? it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
46. 1-3-3 A camel fell into mud (i.e., a marsh). It kept on eating while sinking down, (but) itself was eaten by a fox, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
47. 1-1-4 A man went visiting (and) met a god. He asked for his divine favor. (The god) gave his divine favor (and) said: ‘May you get livestock in your pens! May your life be long!’ Know thus: (The omen) is good.
48. 3-4-4 I am the old road god. I fix your broken parts (and) l join together your torn things. I have organized the realm. May there be the good of everything! it says. Know thus:
49. 3-4-1 A tiger went looking for wild game and prey. In an open place it came across a wild goat. The spotted wild goat went up a steep rock (and) was saved from death. Having been saved from death, it walks about rejoicing and being glad, it says. Know thus: (the omen) is good.
50. 1-4-3 Tie up the roan horse's tail into a knot and make it run until it breaks wind; make the bay (horse) run until it (almost) spreads down (on the ground so that) they sweat until your nine shabracks be pierced, it says. Know thus: (the omen) is bad.
51. 4-3-3 I am a predatory eagle. My summer quarters is a green rock (and) my winter quarters is a red rock. I enjoy staying on the mountain. Know thus:
52. 3-1-2 The man became depressed (and) the sky cloudy. (Suddenly) sun rose among (the clouds) and joy came in the midst of depression, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
53. 2-3-2 A gray cloud passed; it rained over people. A black cloud passed; it rained over everything. The crop ripened; the fresh grass sprouted. It was good for animals and men, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
54. 1-3-1 The slave's words are a request to his master; the raven's words are a prayer to heaven. Heaven above heard it; men below understood it, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
55. 4-1-2 A brave son of man went to the army (in war). In the field of fight, he got himself made an authoritative envoy, it says. When he comes home, he comes as a famous (and) joyful (warrior), (and) his horse as a capable (mount), it says. Know thus: (The omen) is extremely good.
56. 2-3-1 I am a stallion happy in his stud. My summer quarters is (beneath) the nut-trees (and) my winter quarters is (beneath) the trees where birds crowd. I enjoy staying there, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
57. 2-2-1 Her favorite (lover) has died (and) her pail has frozen. Why should her favorite (lover) die? He has the status of a beg. Why should her pail freeze? It is placed in the sunshine. Know thus: at the beginning of this omen there is a little pain; (but) later it becomes good again.
58. 3-2-2 A son, being angry with his mother (and) father, ran away (from home). (Later) he thought it over (and) came back. He came back saying 'l will accept my mother's advice (and) listen to my father's words', it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
59. 3-2-3 I will not make one that has reached (the stage of) a year stink, (or) one that has reached (the stage of) a month go bad. May good come to them, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
60. 4-3-1 I am a male mara! deer with a nine-branched horn. Rising on my big (and) powerful knees, I bellow. Heaven above heard it (and) men below realized it. That powerful am I, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
61. 3-4-1 A crane settled on its resting-place, (but) by not noticing it, was caught in a snare. lt sits without being able to fly, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
62. 2-1-3 I am a yargun deer. residence, Climbing the mountain which is my summer residence, I stay there for the summer. I am happy, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
63. 1-2-1 The army of the khanate went out for hunting. (Meanwhile) a roe-buck entered the game battue. (The khan) caught it with (his) hand. All his common soldiers rejoice, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is good.
64. 3-4-1 I am a gray falcon with a white neck. Sitting on a rock with a wide view, I look around. Settling down on a poplar full of nuts, I spend the summer, it says. Know thus: (The omen) is very good.
65. 3-3-2 A fat horse's mouth became hard. Its master cannot do anything (to heal it)., it says. Know thus: (The omen) is bad.
Colophon: Now, my dear sons, know thus: this book of divination is good. Thus, everyone is master of his own fate. In the Year of Tiger, on the fifteenth (day of) the second month, I, the young pious (disciple) staying at the Tay-gtin-tan monastery, after having listened to the burua guru (i.e. the spiritual master of preage), wrote (this book) for our affectionate big brother General Itachuk.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 2:43:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2018 1:23:52 GMT -5
This publication looks intriguing. When worlds collide : the Indo-Europeans and the pre-Indo-Europeans / the Rockefeller Foundation's Bellagio Study and Conference Center, Lake Como, Italy, February 8-13, 1988, presented by T.L. Markey & John A.C. Greppin, Ann Arbor, Mich., Karoma Publishers, 1990.
ContentsWelcome remarks : when cultures collide - the Indo-Europeans and pre-Indo-Europeans / Thomas MarkeyOn the problem of an Asiatic original homeland of the Proto-Indo-Europeans / Thomas V. GamkrelidzeArchaeology and linguistics : some preliminary issues / Colin RenfrewDid Armenians live in Asia anterior before the twelfth century B.C.? / Gevork B. DjahukianDomestication of plants in the Old World : the emerging synthesis / Daniel ZoharyThe Indo-European impact on the human world / Charles BurneyLanguage contacts in the Caucasus and the Near East / Igor M. DiakonoffKartvelian contacts with Indo-European / Alice C. HarrisThe inception of farming in the British Isles and the emergence of Indo-European languages in NW Europe / Roger J. MercerAstronomical and geometrical influences on monumental design : clues to changing patterns of social tradition? / Clive RugglesThe Mafia hypothesis / Antonio GilmanThe collision of two ideologies / Marija GimbutasThe postulated pre-Indo-European substrates in insular Celtic and Tocharian / Karl Horst SchmidtThe make-up of the Armenian unclassified substratum / John A.C. GreppinThe Indo-European horse / Eric P. HampArménien et Iranien : une théorie linguistique passée inaperçue / Giancarlo BolognesiAgricultural transition, "Indo-European origins" and the spread of farming / Marek Zvelebil and Kamil V. ZvelebilTypes of linguistic evidence for early contact : Indo-Europeans and non-Indo-Europeans / Edgar C. PoloméThe pre-Indo-European language of Northern (Central) Europe / Eric P. HampThe investigation of Proto-Indo-European history : methods, problems, limitations / Stefan ZimmerGift, payment and reward revisited / Thomas L. MarkeyIndo-Européens et pré-Indo-Européens dans la Péninsule Ibérique / Francisco Villar.
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Post by deuce on Sept 17, 2018 10:50:24 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 12:30:29 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2018 0:17:22 GMT -5
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Post by kemp on Sept 21, 2018 5:22:54 GMT -5
It would be cool if they included the legend about Queen Tomiris beheading Cyrus and dipping his head in a vessel of blood, saying that he would drink enough blood ( from your linked article ).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2018 18:23:06 GMT -5
It would be cool if they included the legend about Queen Tomiris beheading Cyrus and dipping his head in a vessel of blood, saying that he would drink enough blood ( from your linked article ). Yeah, it'll be pretty cool when/if they do. I'll add the story of the conflict between Tomyris & Cyrus, according to Heredotus in the following post.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2018 18:24:52 GMT -5
Tomyris: according to HerodotusTomyris Plunges the Head of the Dead Cyrus Into a Vessel of Blood by Rubens At this time the Massagetai were ruled by a queen, named Tomyris, who at the death of her husband, the late king, had mounted the throne. To her Cyrus sent ambassadors, with instructions to court her on his part, pretending that he wished to take her to wife. Tomyris, however, aware that it was her kingdom, and not herself, that he courted, forbade the men to approach. Cyrus, therefore, finding that he did not advance his designs by this deceit, marched towards the Araxes, and openly displaying his hostile intentions; set to work to construct a bridge on which his army might cross the river, and began building towers upon the boats which were to be used in the passage.
While the Persian leader was occupied in these labors, Tomyris sent a herald to him, who said, "King of the Medes, cease to press this enterprise, for you cannot know if what you are doing will be of real advantage to you. Be content to rule in peace your own kingdom, and bear to see us reign over the countries that are ours to govern. As, however, I know you will not choose to hearken to this counsel, since there is nothing you less desirest than peace and quietness, come now, if you are so mightily desirous of meeting the Massagetai in arms, leave your useless toil of bridge-making; let us retire three days' march from the river bank, and do you come across with your soldiers; or, if you like better to give us battle on your side the stream, retire yourself an equal distance." Cyrus, on this offer, called together the chiefs of the Persians, and laid the matter before them, requesting them to advise him what he should do. All the votes were in favor of his letting Tomyris cross the stream, and giving battle on Persian ground.
But Croesus the Lydian, who was present at the meeting of the chiefs, disapproved of this advice; he therefore rose, and thus delivered his sentiments in opposition to it: "Oh! my king! I promised you long since, that, as Zeus had given me into your hands, I would, to the best of my power, avert impending danger from your house. Alas! my own sufferings, by their very bitterness, have taught me to be keen-sighted of dangers. If you deem yourself an immortal, and your army an army of immortals, my counsel will doubtless be thrown away upon you. But if you feel yourself to be a man, and a ruler of men, lay this first to heart, that there is a wheel on which the affairs of men revolve, and that its movement forbids the same man to be always fortunate.
"Now concerning the matter in hand, my judgment runs counter to the judgment of your other counselors. For if you agree to give the enemy entrance into your country, consider what risk is run! Lose the battle, and therewith your whole kingdom is lost. For, assuredly, the Massagetai, if they win the fight, will not return to their homes, but will push forward against the states of your empire. Or, if you win the battle, why, then you win far less than if you were across the stream, where you might follow up your victory. For against your loss, if they defeat you on your own ground, must be set theirs in like case. Rout their army on the other side of the river, and you may push at once into the heart of their country. Moreover, were it not disgrace intolerable for Cyrus the son of Cambyses to retire before and yield ground to a woman?
"My counsel, therefore, is that we cross the stream, and pushing forward as far as they shall fall back, then seek to get the better of them by stratagem. I am told they are unacquainted with the good things on which the Persians live, and have never tasted the great delights of life. Let us then prepare a feast for them in our camp; let sheep be slaughtered without stint, and the wine cups be filled full of noble liquor, and let all manner of dishes be prepared: then leaving behind us our worst troops, let us fall back towards the river. Unless I very much mistake, when they see the good fare set out, they will forget all else and fall to. Then it will remain for us to do our parts manfully."
Cyrus, when the two plans were thus placed in contrast before him, changed his mind, and preferring the advice which Croesus had given, returned for answer to Tomyris that she should retire, and that he would cross the stream. She therefore retired, as she had engaged; and Cyrus, giving Croesus into the care of his son Cambyses (whom he had appointed to succeed him on the throne), with strict charge to pay him all respect and treat him well, if the expedition failed of success; and sending them both back to Persia, crossed the river with his army.
The first night after the passage, as he slept in the enemy's country, a vision appeared to him. He seemed to see in his sleep the eldest of the sons of Hystaspes, with wings upon his shoulders, shadowing with the one wing Asia, and Europe with the other. Now Hystaspes, the son of Arsames, was of the race of the Achaimenidai, and his eldest son, Darius, was at that time scarce twenty years old; wherefore, not being of age to go to the wars, he had remained behind in Persia. When Cyrus woke from his sleep, and turned the vision over in his mind, it seemed to him no light matter. He therefore sent for Hystaspes, and taking him aside said, "Hystaspes, your son is discovered to be plotting against me and my crown. I will tell you how I know it so certainly. The gods watch over my safety, and warn me beforehand of every danger. Now last night, as I lay in my bed, I saw in a vision the eldest of your sons with wings upon his shoulders, shadowing with the one wing Asia, and Europe with the other. From this it is certain, beyond all possible doubt, that he is engaged in some plot against me. Return you then at once to Persia, and be sure, when I come back from conquering the Massagetai, to have your son ready to produce before me, that I may examine him."
Thus Cyrus spoke, in the belief that he was plotted against by Darius; but he missed the true meaning of the dream, which was sent by God to forewarn him, that he was to die then and there, and that his kingdom was to fall at last to Darius. Hystaspes made answer to Cyrus in these words: "Heaven forbid, sire, that there should be a Persian living who would plot against you! If such an one there be, may a speedy death overtake him! You found the Persians a race of slaves, you have made them free men: you found them subject to others, you have made them lords of all. If a vision has announced that my son is practicing against you, I resign him into your hands to deal with as you will." Hystaspes, when he had thus answered, recrossed the Araxes and hastened back to Persia, to keep a watch on his son Darius.
Meanwhile Cyrus, having advanced a day's march from the river, did as Croesus had advised him, and, leaving the worthless portion of his army in the camp, drew off with his good troops towards the river. Soon afterwards, a detachment of the Massagetai, one-third of their entire army, led by Spargapises, son of the queen Tomyris, coming up, fell upon the body which had been left behind by Cyrus, and on their resistance put them to the sword. Then, seeing the banquet prepared, they sat down and began to feast. When they had eaten and drunk their fill, and were now sunk in sleep, the Persians under Cyrus arrived, slaughtered a great multitude, and made even a larger number prisoners. Among these last was Spargapises himself.
When Tomyris heard what had befallen her son and her army, she sent a herald to Cyrus, who thus addressed the conqueror: "You bloodthirsty Cyrus, pride not yourself on this poor success: it was the grape-juice---which, when you drink it, makes you so mad, and as you swallow it down brings up to your lips such bold and wicked words---it was this poison by which you ensnared my child, and so overcame him, not in fair open fight. Now hear what I advise, and be sure I advise you for your good. Restore my son to me and get you from the land unharmed, triumphant over a third part of the host of the Massagetai. Refuse, and I swear by the sun, the sovereign lord of the Massagetai, bloodthirsty as you are, I will give you your fill of blood."
To the words of this message Cyrus paid no manner of regard. As for Spargapises, the son of the queen, when the wine went off, and he saw the extent of his calamity, he made request to Cyrus to release him from his bonds; then, when his prayer was granted, and the fetters were taken from his limbs, as soon as his hands were free, he destroyed himself.
Tomyris, when she found that Cyrus paid no heed to her advice, collected all the forces of her kingdom, and gave him battle. Of all the combats in which the barbarians have engaged among themselves, I reckon this to have been the fiercest. The following, as I understand, was the manner of it: First, the two armies stood apart and shot their arrows at each other; then, when their quivers were empty, they closed and fought hand-to-hand with lances and daggers; and thus they continued fighting for a length of time, neither choosing to give ground. At length the Massagetai prevailed. The greater part of the army of the Persians was destroyed and Cyrus himself fell, after reigning nine and twenty years. Search was made among the slain by order of the queen for the body of Cyrus, and when it was found she took a skin, and, filling it full of human blood, she dipped the head of Cyrus in the gore, saying, as she thus insulted the corpse, "I live and have conquered you in fight, and yet by you am I ruined, for you took my son with guile; but thus I make good my threat, and give you your fill of blood." Of the many different accounts which are given of the death of Cyrus, this which I have followed appears to me most worthy of credit.
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Post by kemp on Sept 25, 2018 7:31:31 GMT -5
Tomyris: according to HerodotusTomyris Plunges the Head of the Dead Cyrus Into a Vessel of Blood by Rubens At this time the Massagetai were ruled by a queen, named Tomyris, who at the death of her husband, the late king, had mounted the throne. To her Cyrus sent ambassadors, with instructions to court her on his part, pretending that he wished to take her to wife. Tomyris, however, aware that it was her kingdom, and not herself, that he courted, forbade the men to approach. Cyrus, therefore, finding that he did not advance his designs by this deceit, marched towards the Araxes, and openly displaying his hostile intentions; set to work to construct a bridge on which his army might cross the river, and began building towers upon the boats which were to be used in the passage.
While the Persian leader was occupied in these labors, Tomyris sent a herald to him, who said, "King of the Medes, cease to press this enterprise, for you cannot know if what you are doing will be of real advantage to you. Be content to rule in peace your own kingdom, and bear to see us reign over the countries that are ours to govern. As, however, I know you will not choose to hearken to this counsel, since there is nothing you less desirest than peace and quietness, come now, if you are so mightily desirous of meeting the Massagetai in arms, leave your useless toil of bridge-making; let us retire three days' march from the river bank, and do you come across with your soldiers; or, if you like better to give us battle on your side the stream, retire yourself an equal distance." Cyrus, on this offer, called together the chiefs of the Persians, and laid the matter before them, requesting them to advise him what he should do. All the votes were in favor of his letting Tomyris cross the stream, and giving battle on Persian ground.
But Croesus the Lydian, who was present at the meeting of the chiefs, disapproved of this advice; he therefore rose, and thus delivered his sentiments in opposition to it: "Oh! my king! I promised you long since, that, as Zeus had given me into your hands, I would, to the best of my power, avert impending danger from your house. Alas! my own sufferings, by their very bitterness, have taught me to be keen-sighted of dangers. If you deem yourself an immortal, and your army an army of immortals, my counsel will doubtless be thrown away upon you. But if you feel yourself to be a man, and a ruler of men, lay this first to heart, that there is a wheel on which the affairs of men revolve, and that its movement forbids the same man to be always fortunate.
"Now concerning the matter in hand, my judgment runs counter to the judgment of your other counselors. For if you agree to give the enemy entrance into your country, consider what risk is run! Lose the battle, and therewith your whole kingdom is lost. For, assuredly, the Massagetai, if they win the fight, will not return to their homes, but will push forward against the states of your empire. Or, if you win the battle, why, then you win far less than if you were across the stream, where you might follow up your victory. For against your loss, if they defeat you on your own ground, must be set theirs in like case. Rout their army on the other side of the river, and you may push at once into the heart of their country. Moreover, were it not disgrace intolerable for Cyrus the son of Cambyses to retire before and yield ground to a woman?
"My counsel, therefore, is that we cross the stream, and pushing forward as far as they shall fall back, then seek to get the better of them by stratagem. I am told they are unacquainted with the good things on which the Persians live, and have never tasted the great delights of life. Let us then prepare a feast for them in our camp; let sheep be slaughtered without stint, and the wine cups be filled full of noble liquor, and let all manner of dishes be prepared: then leaving behind us our worst troops, let us fall back towards the river. Unless I very much mistake, when they see the good fare set out, they will forget all else and fall to. Then it will remain for us to do our parts manfully."
Cyrus, when the two plans were thus placed in contrast before him, changed his mind, and preferring the advice which Croesus had given, returned for answer to Tomyris that she should retire, and that he would cross the stream. She therefore retired, as she had engaged; and Cyrus, giving Croesus into the care of his son Cambyses (whom he had appointed to succeed him on the throne), with strict charge to pay him all respect and treat him well, if the expedition failed of success; and sending them both back to Persia, crossed the river with his army.
The first night after the passage, as he slept in the enemy's country, a vision appeared to him. He seemed to see in his sleep the eldest of the sons of Hystaspes, with wings upon his shoulders, shadowing with the one wing Asia, and Europe with the other. Now Hystaspes, the son of Arsames, was of the race of the Achaimenidai, and his eldest son, Darius, was at that time scarce twenty years old; wherefore, not being of age to go to the wars, he had remained behind in Persia. When Cyrus woke from his sleep, and turned the vision over in his mind, it seemed to him no light matter. He therefore sent for Hystaspes, and taking him aside said, "Hystaspes, your son is discovered to be plotting against me and my crown. I will tell you how I know it so certainly. The gods watch over my safety, and warn me beforehand of every danger. Now last night, as I lay in my bed, I saw in a vision the eldest of your sons with wings upon his shoulders, shadowing with the one wing Asia, and Europe with the other. From this it is certain, beyond all possible doubt, that he is engaged in some plot against me. Return you then at once to Persia, and be sure, when I come back from conquering the Massagetai, to have your son ready to produce before me, that I may examine him."
Thus Cyrus spoke, in the belief that he was plotted against by Darius; but he missed the true meaning of the dream, which was sent by God to forewarn him, that he was to die then and there, and that his kingdom was to fall at last to Darius. Hystaspes made answer to Cyrus in these words: "Heaven forbid, sire, that there should be a Persian living who would plot against you! If such an one there be, may a speedy death overtake him! You found the Persians a race of slaves, you have made them free men: you found them subject to others, you have made them lords of all. If a vision has announced that my son is practicing against you, I resign him into your hands to deal with as you will." Hystaspes, when he had thus answered, recrossed the Araxes and hastened back to Persia, to keep a watch on his son Darius.
Meanwhile Cyrus, having advanced a day's march from the river, did as Croesus had advised him, and, leaving the worthless portion of his army in the camp, drew off with his good troops towards the river. Soon afterwards, a detachment of the Massagetai, one-third of their entire army, led by Spargapises, son of the queen Tomyris, coming up, fell upon the body which had been left behind by Cyrus, and on their resistance put them to the sword. Then, seeing the banquet prepared, they sat down and began to feast. When they had eaten and drunk their fill, and were now sunk in sleep, the Persians under Cyrus arrived, slaughtered a great multitude, and made even a larger number prisoners. Among these last was Spargapises himself.
When Tomyris heard what had befallen her son and her army, she sent a herald to Cyrus, who thus addressed the conqueror: "You bloodthirsty Cyrus, pride not yourself on this poor success: it was the grape-juice---which, when you drink it, makes you so mad, and as you swallow it down brings up to your lips such bold and wicked words---it was this poison by which you ensnared my child, and so overcame him, not in fair open fight. Now hear what I advise, and be sure I advise you for your good. Restore my son to me and get you from the land unharmed, triumphant over a third part of the host of the Massagetai. Refuse, and I swear by the sun, the sovereign lord of the Massagetai, bloodthirsty as you are, I will give you your fill of blood."
To the words of this message Cyrus paid no manner of regard. As for Spargapises, the son of the queen, when the wine went off, and he saw the extent of his calamity, he made request to Cyrus to release him from his bonds; then, when his prayer was granted, and the fetters were taken from his limbs, as soon as his hands were free, he destroyed himself.
Tomyris, when she found that Cyrus paid no heed to her advice, collected all the forces of her kingdom, and gave him battle. Of all the combats in which the barbarians have engaged among themselves, I reckon this to have been the fiercest. The following, as I understand, was the manner of it: First, the two armies stood apart and shot their arrows at each other; then, when their quivers were empty, they closed and fought hand-to-hand with lances and daggers; and thus they continued fighting for a length of time, neither choosing to give ground. At length the Massagetai prevailed. The greater part of the army of the Persians was destroyed and Cyrus himself fell, after reigning nine and twenty years. Search was made among the slain by order of the queen for the body of Cyrus, and when it was found she took a skin, and, filling it full of human blood, she dipped the head of Cyrus in the gore, saying, as she thus insulted the corpse, "I live and have conquered you in fight, and yet by you am I ruined, for you took my son with guile; but thus I make good my threat, and give you your fill of blood." Of the many different accounts which are given of the death of Cyrus, this which I have followed appears to me most worthy of credit. I myself prefer this account by Herodotus on the death of Cyrus. If anything, the above makes for an epic tale, full of intrigue, action, revenge and drama. Much better than Xenophon's where he claimed that Cyrus died peaceably at his capital, although I am sure Cyrus would probably favour a less violent end to his life.
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Post by Char-Vell on Sept 25, 2018 8:13:52 GMT -5
I myself prefer this account by Herodotus on the death of Cyrus. If anything, the above makes for an epic tale, full of intrigue, action, revenge and drama. Much better than Xenophon's where he claimed that Cyrus died peaceably at his capital, although I am sure Cyrus would probably favour a less violent end to his life. hmmm... This guy told me the Warriors shot Cyrus.
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