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Post by zarono on Feb 12, 2018 9:02:02 GMT -5
I would still like to see Momoa cast as Conan, I think he's an excellent actor and has not just the physique but the formidable presence vital to the character. I think you'll likely see some casting similar to Game of Thrones if they are serious about the story with good character actors playing the important roles. Sean Bean for Nestor would be my choice. Vincent Donofrio for Taurus. Supernatural menaces? All of them! I would most enjoy seeing Thog in all his slithering, shadowy, tentacled, mind numbing horror. Thak, we must have Thak! Absolutely the Conan vs Thak battle must happen! Man-Eaters of Zamboula should be done too as the battle with Baal-Pteor is iconic, the cannibals in the story could be changed to some mysterious lost race the way Peter Jackson did with the Skull Island natives in his version of King Kong, not offensive to anyone and keeps the basic plot intact. I think as long as the cannibals are designed to be visually interesting and frightening it would work well.
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Post by deepermagic on Feb 12, 2018 9:41:49 GMT -5
As far as casting goes I think the best route would be to have a newcomer. No Ahnold, no Momoa, and no one necessarily well known. (But I'd be ALL IN if they used Arnold or Momoa for cameos or villains!)
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Post by monolith on Feb 12, 2018 11:15:38 GMT -5
Jason Momoa is certainly looking and living the part these days. Check out his instagram www.instagram.com/prideofgypsies/?hl=enBut I am more than open to some inspired casting. It really is an iconic role for some lucky actor to inhabit.
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Post by Aryeh on Feb 12, 2018 11:26:41 GMT -5
I kinda understand the concerns of Aryeh, but I'm pretty certain, and if you're reading this, I know you're even more certain, that they will not employ hook-nosed actors to represent the sons of Shem, that would be silly. Oh, I was always certain they won't; the thing I am uncertain about is whether this TV series is going to actually happen or not (see my first post on page 6 in this thread). I hope it does happen. I just don't want fans (or "fans" -- those who bring up anti-political correctness as supposedly THE major element in Howard's writings) to sabotage the series before it is even made. On another subject, I'd also like to add just this, that if the series is made, and if it is a real TV series, with 10 or 13 episodes, and if not all episodes are written and directed by Condal and Sapochnik, then I will be unpleasantly surprised if they don't bring Dirk Blackman and Howard McCain for at least one episode (and those who followed the old forum and then Blackman's blog will hopefully know why I am bringing up this, and why I think they deserve their place in Conan's screen history); also, I will be even more disappointed if at least one episode is not done by Amanda Milius, a talented and very knowledgeable young woman, an author of an excellent short film "Lotus Gun", and also the daughter of John Milius.
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Post by moonlightshadow on Feb 12, 2018 14:38:15 GMT -5
You all seem to be very optimistic that they WILL adapt actual Howard stories for this series. I hope you are right. This is the 8th time Conan is adapted for cinema or TV. Only two times did they try to adapt actual Howard stories (as opposed to write their own stories with bits and pieces taken from Howard). Guess which two movies never made it to the screen.
Robert E. Howard was one of the greatest pulp writers ever and so far only one of his stories has been adapted for the screen and that's "Pigeons from Hell".
I sincerely hope the new series will finally put Howard on the screen. It would be great if they would at least adapt all the major stories but I just can't see that happen. A big problem will be that current TV series all have multiple main characters and in Howard's stories there's only Conan having adventures. If you create a bunch of returning supporting characters like sidekicks, love interests and returning villains it won't feel like Howard anymore. That's why I think the series will basically be an original story that will "borrow" characters and story elements from various Howard stories. Now this could still make a good series but it would again not be Robert E.Howard's Conan. Anyway I'll be happy if they at least get the character of Conan right, if they accurately show the various hyborian countries and if they include as much story elements of the Howard stories as possible.
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Post by deepermagic on Feb 12, 2018 15:03:35 GMT -5
Anyway I'll be happy if they at least get the character of Conan right, if they accurately show the various hyborian countries and if they include as much story elements of the Howard stories as possible. This is what I (hopefully) interpret as the idea of "spirit of Howard". If they stick with what you've outlined, I think we'd be pretty happy with it.
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Post by anaximander on Feb 12, 2018 19:30:47 GMT -5
Momoa wasn't built for the role in 2011, despite his best efforts, but these days he's carrying a good bit more muscle in his traps/arms/shoulders. Before, he was still built more like a male model, which is why in the movie they had to cover up his forearms. He's also a better actor now, and could probably pull off the role. He was great as Khal Drogo. Still, I'd rather see someone else. Manu Bennett was probably muscular enough 10 years ago but not anymore. Conan doesn't need to be a pro bodybuilder/wrestler but Frazetta, Kelly, Arnold, and the comic books have had enough of an influence that Conan can't really look like he did on the cover of Weird Tales. I'd like to see the guy that plays Jamie Fraser in Outlander as Conan (after going on the Henry Cavill workout).
As far as Howard and Nazis, Howard's grandfather rode with the noble General Forrest, and Howard would have volunteered or been drafted to fight the Nazis if he had lived, as did all honorable Southern men. There are leftists on this board who see all kinds of terrible thought crimes in Howard's writing, his character, and his culture, but I see none of that. If the bad guy is originally written as black, does the race have to be changed since blacks can't be villains on TV? The Lord of the Rings movies didn't change anybody's race to be more "inclusive" and were amazingly successful. In fact, they already tried "diversity" with the Ralf Moeller show, where they surrounded Conan with a black guy, a dwarf, a mute, and a woman. They checked every liberal box at the time, but it wasn't authentic Conan and it crashed and burned. Given the quality and pace of Howard's writing, there's not too much that needs to be changed for it to be successful. The gaps that need to be filled in for TV just need to be faithful to the source. That's where men like Patrice Louinet and Mark Finn should come in. Fredrik Malmberg is apparently an executive producer, but hopefully that is just an honorary position.
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Post by almuric on Feb 12, 2018 21:10:55 GMT -5
I hope this series actually gets made. I've lost count of all the TV shows and literary adaptations that have been announced the past few years which then fail to ever materialize.
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Post by lordyam on Feb 12, 2018 21:54:07 GMT -5
Momoa wasn't built for the role in 2011, despite his best efforts, but these days he's carrying a good bit more muscle in his traps/arms/shoulders. Before, he was still built more like a male model, which is why in the movie they had to cover up his forearms. He's also a better actor now, and could probably pull off the role. He was great as Khal Drogo. Still, I'd rather see someone else. Manu Bennett was probably muscular enough 10 years ago but not anymore. Conan doesn't need to be a pro bodybuilder/wrestler but Frazetta, Kelly, Arnold, and the comic books have had enough of an influence that Conan can't really look like he did on the cover of Weird Tales. I'd like to see the guy that plays Jamie Fraser in Outlander as Conan (after going on the Henry Cavill workout). As far as Howard and Nazis, Howard's grandfather rode with the noble General Forrest, and Howard would have volunteered or been drafted to fight the Nazis if he had lived, as did all honorable Southern men. There are leftists on this board who see all kinds of terrible thought crimes in Howard's writing, his character, and his culture, but I see none of that. If the bad guy is originally written as black, does the race have to be changed since blacks can't be villains on TV? The Lord of the Rings movies didn't change anybody's race to be more "inclusive" and were amazingly successful. In fact, they already tried "diversity" with the Ralf Moeller show, where they surrounded Conan with a black guy, a dwarf, a mute, and a woman. They checked every liberal box at the time, but it wasn't authentic Conan and it crashed and burned. Given the quality and pace of Howard's writing, there's not too much that needs to be changed for it to be successful. The gaps that need to be filled in for TV just need to be faithful to the source. That's where men like Patrice Louinet and Mark Finn should come in. Fredrik Malmberg is apparently an executive producer, but hopefully that is just an honorary position. Forrest was a piece of shit so that bit is a poor example. Also it's not thought crime. A lot of the stuff ("I wouldn't leave a white woman in the clutches of a black man") are pretty revolting. And I can easily raise the DH and Marvel adaptations, which had diversity and WERE REALLY DAMN GOOD. Being TOO faithful is a bad thing.
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Post by darthgall on Feb 12, 2018 23:20:30 GMT -5
Eh, I think the fears that discussion about the racism and sexism is enough to singlehandedly bring down the whole thing are overblown.
Someone used the word "blemishes" and I think that's really apt. There's these little spots that are scattered about here and there, that ARE revolting and awful. But they're so little, and the rest is so good, I can easily ignore it. They are flaws, but they don't ruin the whole of the work for me.
Now, there's always going to be some purists who annoyingly argue "Well, if your soup had just a little bit of shit in it, would you still eat it?" I don't live my life that way; if someone's going to be that pure, I'm pretty sure all art is off limits. Art, and the humans who create it, are all messy. Some are messier than others, and some are super messy but super good at the same time, and people have to make a judgment call. I'm comfortable with that.
Someone used the King Kong example, which is a good one. THere actually was a bit of an uproar about the Skull Island people using the "savage black tribe" trope. If you wanted to find those discussions you could probably find them at... oh, just guessing, but probably Huffington Post and Vox... and people hashed it out and some probably decided that movie was therefore too racist for them.
But society of the whole did not punish the movie (at least the US; don't know if this was an issue elsewhere), probably b/c the audience thought "meh, it's a fantasy race, on a fantasy island, in a fantasy movie", and the filmmakers (wisely) made the tribe NOT look like a real-world tribe. I think the audience in the US of a Conan tv show would apply the same "not really an issue there b/c it's adventure fantasy".
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Post by Aryeh on Feb 13, 2018 5:58:53 GMT -5
As far as Howard and Nazis, Howard's grandfather rode with the noble General Forrest, and Howard would have volunteered or been drafted to fight the Nazis if he had lived, as did all honorable Southern men. Are you saying this with a grin on your face, or are you serious? I cannot honestly tell which would be worse in a case like this one, in which you mention how Howard's grandfather served under a Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard (the title the "noble" general Forrest held in KKK), and that is somehow for you a guarantee that Howard would be anti-Nazi. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There's these little spots that are scattered about here and there, that ARE revolting and awful. But they're so little, and the rest is so good, I can easily ignore it. They are flaws, but they don't ruin the whole of the work for me. “Shemites, who are born liars and hooked of nose, and the men of Khitai, the ‘yellowskulled’ workers of poisons” (quoted from Lorenzo DiTommaso, "Robert E. Howard’s Hyborian Tales and the Question of Race in Fantastic Literature ") "The Shemite soul finds a bright drunkenness in riches and material splendor" (Queen of the Black Coast) "In this accursed city which Stygians built and which Hyrkanians rule — where white, brown, and black folk mingle together to produce hybrids of all unholy hues and breeds — who can tell who is a man, and who is a demon in disguise?" (Shadows in Zambula) To say these (and there are many more examples there, from where this came from; but even these 3 are enough to see to what extent did Howard's racism go) are "little spots" cannot be anything but cynicism. My point from the beginning here was: if someone truly appreciates Howard, if someone really believes he made something valuable, there would be no need to pretend he wasn't also, beside being a creator of something big, a seriously flawed character. By attempting to hide or to overlook his flaws, you are showing that you don't believe what is good in Howard's prose is enough to be at least as important as his flaws.
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Post by moonlightshadow on Feb 13, 2018 6:23:19 GMT -5
I'm tired of this racism discussion. IF there is any racism in the Conan yarns it can be easily avoided in any adaptation.
However that doesn't mean Conan should have a black sidekick, a gay friend and an asian love interest which he yearns after for three seasons. Just use a little common sense (I know, it's hard these days).
Plenty of recent TV series are not "racist" and "sexist" (except maybe in the eyes of The Huffington Post and The Guardian) but they don't feel like a leftist's wet dream like the dreadful new Star Wars movies where all the heroes have to be female, black or alien and the villains are white males.
Give me something along the lines of Game of Thrones, Vikings or Spartacus and I'll be happy. But please let Conan be like he is in the Howard stories: a rogue, a scoundrel, a thief, a guy who enjoys fighting and drinking and whoring. If it's not a problem for Game of Thrones and Vikings to show characters like that in a positive way it shouldn't be a problem for Conan.
PLEASE don't let him fight for the greater good but primarily for himself.
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Post by robp on Feb 13, 2018 6:28:09 GMT -5
I'm tired of this racism discussion. IF there is any racism in the Conan yarns it can be easily avoided in any adaptation. Then stop posting about it and complaining about "leftists". Yes, there may be and yes it can. More interesting topic - casting ideas. Main role or supporting cast
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Post by Aryeh on Feb 13, 2018 6:28:21 GMT -5
But please let Conan be like he is in the Howard stories PLEASE don't let him fight for the greater good but primarily for himself. Except that is not Robert E. Howard's Conan. Because Howard's Conan doesn't mind that he ends up crucified, if that is the price for speaking the truth while others, who think only of themselves, are silent.
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Post by moonlightshadow on Feb 13, 2018 6:52:23 GMT -5
But please let Conan be like he is in the Howard stories PLEASE don't let him fight for the greater good but primarily for himself. Except that is not Robert E. Howard's Conan. Because Howard's Conan doesn't mind that he ends up crucified, if that is the price for speaking the truth while others, who think only of themselves, are silent. Of course he's speaking the truth. He's Conan the Cimmerian. He wouldn't lie to save his ass. But that has nothing to do with what I wrote. Conan is not somebody whose trying to make the world a better place. He's just doing what he wants to do and he's doing it well.
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