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Post by keith on Apr 25, 2018 7:46:52 GMT -5
CONAN THE CIVILIZED MAN?
We're all familiar with the image of Conan the mighty barbarian, lawless roughneck from the wild hills of Cimmeria, who follows his urges and takes what he wants without regard for man, beast or demon. He's frequently described as "unpredictable" to civilized men. We're told ("Beyond the Black River") that contact with civilized men "had obviously not softened him, nor weakened any of his primitive instincts." Just before killing, with his bare hands, the strangler Baal-Pteor ("Shadows in Zamboula") Conan snarls to him, "You fool! Did you deem yourself strong because you could twist the heads off civilized men, weaklings with muscles like rotten string?" To Olgerd Vladislav, a civilized man turned savage outlaw, he says of the Zuagir desert tribesmen, "I understand them better than you, and they, me, because I am a barbarian too."
There's another aspect to the picture, though. The first Conan story ever published, "The Phoenix on the Sword", introduces Conan to the readers with a stylus and writing tablets in his hands, not sword and shield, making an effort -- proudly -- to add to scholarly knowledge by improving the maps of the northern lands! His companion in that scene is his closest friend, Prospero, a civilized, urbane noble. After his wild, lawless early life, Conan had adopted a civilized country as his own and become its king. He even made a pretty responsible one, better than average. "Today no Aquilonian noble dares maltreat the humblest of my subjects, and the taxes of the people are lighter than anywhere else in the world." ("The Scarlet Citadel.")
While Conan is often shown being scornful of civilized people and customs, it's significant that he is never shown in his land of origin, or in company with other Cimmerians. Prospero says of Conan that he laughs, drinks deeply, and bellows good songs, while other Cimmerians -- at least all he's seen -- don't laugh, are grim and gloomy, and chant dismal dirges. Conan doesn't dispute him, and says of his people, "They have no hope here or hereafter ... the ways of the Aesir were more to my liking."
He apparently got out of Cimmeria at the first chance, and never returned. Perhaps it was there that he didn't belong, and in civilized lands that he ultimately did, finding more freedom to be himself there, far from the strictures and taboos of barbarian custom. Even his early friends and allies, like Taurus and Murilo, are civilized men. His paramours, all that we're shown in the stories, certainly are -- Belit, Valeria, "the women of Shadizar the Wicked", Olivia, Natalia, and Zenobia ... all of them from Hyboria or eastern nations. If there's a barbarian girl among them anywhere, I missed it. The pirate Valeria has taken to a savage way of life, but she's Aquilonian, civilized by birth and rearing.
Maybe that echoes of REH's own frustrations, born in 1906 in rural Texas and feeling like a misfit. "The people hereabouts think I'm crazy anyway," he said ruefully, once. Nor did they regard writing for a living as "real" work. And there is that first-ever published image of Conan ... with stylus and writing tablets ...
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Post by Von K on Apr 25, 2018 8:22:27 GMT -5
That's an insightful and cogent post as always Keith, from one of the premier lore masters in all of REH fandom.
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Post by keith on Apr 25, 2018 9:42:35 GMT -5
Thanks, Von K!
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Post by zarono on Apr 26, 2018 6:53:15 GMT -5
Always great to hear your insights Keith!
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Post by Char-Vell on Apr 26, 2018 7:00:39 GMT -5
"Prospero says of Conan that he laughs, drinks deeply, and bellows good songs,"
One of you photoshop gurus needs to mock up an album cover; The Golden Voice of Conan.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 11:45:43 GMT -5
Great stuff Keith.
As you mentioned so eloquently above perhaps/probably Conan didn't belong in Cimmeria. I'd surmise the young Conan found the traditions, customs, taboos and probable complex hierarchical nature of the Cimmerians restricting.
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Post by keith on Apr 27, 2018 9:04:38 GMT -5
"Prospero says of Conan that he laughs, drinks deeply, and bellows good songs,"
One of you photoshop gurus needs to mock up an album cover; The Golden Voice of Conan. Now that Char-Vell mentions it, I wonder about Conan's singing voice. Was he like Zim in STARSHIP TROOPERS? "Sergeant Zim couldn't carry a tune in a sack; all he had was a loud voice." Or was he perhaps like Little John when he appears in a SILVERLOCK scene? "He had the volume of a bull moose on the make, but there was quality there also." Maybe the songs he liked best were those he discovered in civilized lands, like the women? The "dismal dirges" of Cimmeria don't seem to have been his kind of thing, anyway. He was moved even by the songs of the mad poet Rinaldo, who hated him. He says to Prospero in "The Phoenix on the Sword", "His songs are mightier than my sceptre; for he has near ripped the heart from my breast when he chose to sing for me. I shall die and be forgotten, but Rinaldo's songs will live for ever."
Thanks for giving me that to think about, Char-Vell!
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Post by Char-Vell on Apr 27, 2018 9:35:16 GMT -5
"Prospero says of Conan that he laughs, drinks deeply, and bellows good songs,"
One of you photoshop gurus needs to mock up an album cover; The Golden Voice of Conan. Now that Char-Vell mentions it, I wonder about Conan's singing voice. Was he like Zim in STARSHIP TROOPERS? "Sergeant Zim couldn't carry a tune in a sack; all he had was a loud voice." Or was he perhaps like Little John when he appears in a SILVERLOCK scene? "He had the volume of a bull moose on the make, but there was quality there also." Maybe the songs he liked best were those he discovered in civilized lands, like the women? The "dismal dirges" of Cimmeria don't seem to have been his kind of thing, anyway. He was moved even by the songs of the mad poet Rinaldo, who hated him. He says to Prospero in "The Phoenix on the Sword", "His songs are mightier than my sceptre; for he has near ripped the heart from my breast when he chose to sing for me. I shall die and be forgotten, but Rinaldo's songs will live for ever."
Thanks for giving me that to think about, Char-Vell!
I like the idea of Conan having a great singing voice. Imagine the reactions of the various thieves and cutthroats gathered in the tavern when the Cimmerian regales them with a well performed ballad.
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Post by zarono on Apr 27, 2018 10:51:06 GMT -5
"Prospero says of Conan that he laughs, drinks deeply, and bellows good songs,"
One of you photoshop gurus needs to mock up an album cover; The Golden Voice of Conan. Now that Char-Vell mentions it, I wonder about Conan's singing voice. Was he like Zim in STARSHIP TROOPERS? "Sergeant Zim couldn't carry a tune in a sack; all he had was a loud voice." Or was he perhaps like Little John when he appears in a SILVERLOCK scene? "He had the volume of a bull moose on the make, but there was quality there also." Maybe the songs he liked best were those he discovered in civilized lands, like the women? The "dismal dirges" of Cimmeria don't seem to have been his kind of thing, anyway. He was moved even by the songs of the mad poet Rinaldo, who hated him. He says to Prospero in "The Phoenix on the Sword", "His songs are mightier than my sceptre; for he has near ripped the heart from my breast when he chose to sing for me. I shall die and be forgotten, but Rinaldo's songs will live for ever."
Thanks for giving me that to think about, Char-Vell!
I like to think Conan's singing voice might be a bit like this With a bit of this too
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Post by Aryeh on Apr 28, 2018 8:40:07 GMT -5
I can already see Conan wearing a crown of flowers, singing: "This is the dawning of the age of barbarians..."
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Post by Von K on Apr 29, 2018 13:00:01 GMT -5
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Post by zarono on Apr 29, 2018 18:33:12 GMT -5
I've wondered if like REH King Conan was a poet. After his battle with Thak in Rogues in the House he says:
"I have slain a man tonight, not a beast. I will count him among the chiefs whose souls I've sent into the dark, and my women will sing of him."
Conan is young and still fairly close to his cimmerian upbringing at this time so I would assume creating ballads is a Cimmerian tradition, the songs passed on orally and sung in the gloomy cimmerian style. But in his travels Conan heard many different types of music and learned to speak, read, write, and sing in many languages so maybe he put this eclectic self education to artistic use writing the Song of Belit , the Road of Kings and others in his later years, adding poetry to his already impressive list of talents.
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Post by Aryeh on Apr 29, 2018 22:13:51 GMT -5
I've wondered if like REH King Conan was a poet. After his battle with Thak in Rogues in the House he says: "I have slain a man tonight, not a beast. I will count him among the chiefs whose souls I've sent into the dark, and my women will sing of him." Conan is young and still fairly close to his cimmerian upbringing at this time so I would assume creating ballads is a Cimmerian tradition, the songs passed on orally and sung in the gloomy cimmerian style. But in his travels Conan heard many different types of music and learned to speak, read, write, and sing in many languages so maybe he put this eclectic self education to artistic use writing the Song of Belit , the Road of Kings and others in his later years, adding poetry to his already impressive list of talents. The last line of "The Song of Bêlit" is: "Her whom thou gavest me." So, Conan is the author of the poem. Which then makes him a poet.
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Post by keith on Apr 30, 2018 6:31:30 GMT -5
I never thought about that, but it's obviously right. Conan must have composed "The Song of Bêlit". In the Hyborian world, just as the Zingarans are prehistoric pseudo-Spaniards and the Picts are pseudo-Iroquois, the Cimmerians are prehistoric pseudo-Gaels. Like the Dark Age Irish, despite their gloomy nature and probable obsession with death and dirges, they might well have had poets among them and regarded them highly -- made them a privileged class as the Irish did. While not outstandingly talented in that area, the young Conan might still have tried his hand at the craft, and been inspired by grief to compose a eulogy for Bêlit after her death. And he might have taken an interest in the music and poetry of civilized nations during his later travels. Since "The Road of Kings" is recounted in first person, he very likely did compose that too. It's clear that he appreciated poets enough to give even the crazed would-be assassin Rinaldo a break he didn't give the others.
'"Rinaldo!" His voice was strident with desperate urgency. "Back! I would not slay you -- " '"Die, tyrant!" screamed the mad minstrel, hurling himself headlong on the king. Conan delayed the blow he was loth to deliver, until it was too late. Only when he felt the bite of the steel in his unprotected side did he strike, in a frenzy of blind desperation.'
"What do I know of cultured ways?" he asks in "The Road of Kings." Well ... something, anyway.
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Post by Von K on Apr 30, 2018 19:03:59 GMT -5
Some might say it’s part of the subtext that REH has left us to interpret, but I too think you are right (ie Conan being a poet/balladeer). It was from this understanding that I wrote a first person epigraph for a chapter heading in one of my old Conan fanfics.
From the Icelandic sagas monster fighter and outlaw Grettir the Strong could compose verse extempore, and the famous viking Egil Skallagrimsson was a skilled poet.
Song of Belit is told from the perspective of both Belit and Conan in different verses. Barb made some interesting commentary on Song of Belit on the old forum some years back.
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