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Post by BlackHeart on Feb 14, 2016 14:35:12 GMT -5
The ones I have are the Stone script, the Thomas/Conway Conan II, Conan the Conqueror, the first draft of Crown of Iron (the second doesn't seem to be available ), the two drafts of the 2011 film you mentioned, and the AWSBB adaptation. I'm in the middle of reading Conqueror, and it's not terrible exactly, just not great. The beginning felt really rushed through, what with the flashing back to Conan killing Numedides in the middle of the opening scene. As far as Crown of Iron goes, there's a lot I like about it, but it's too muddled and lacking in focus. I do hear the subsequent rewrite basically fixed that, now if only I could find it somewhere, grrr. And I think Milius simply referred to Akiro as "Wizard" here since he wasn't named until Destroyer, and Milius seemed intent to ignore that one. Also, I have the Thomas/COnway script for Destroyer, but it's not called King of Thieves, just "Conan II". Well, comrade, I do not think that Pogue wrote a bad script, on the contrary. The story itself is far from being bad, but it could've ben a little better. I think the script has a lot of emotional depth, which I personally really like, especially the individual dialogues between Conan and Zenobia ... The man is a talented writer, after all. What I did not like (as I said) is the monstrous son, because for me personally this part of the story was wrong. Otherwise, as far as the Destroyer goes, the original first script was named "Conan: King of Thieves." From the second draft it became Conan II, and then we ended up with the name the Destroyer - and I didnt get why, because I didnt see that Conan destroyed something in the movie (if you do not count the guards). Crom... Does De Laurentiis prayed to you when you decides to bring a destruction of this story? By the way, u re welcome, Moonlightshadow We both suffer from the same ills - I too burn with curiosity and desire to get my hands on Wagner's script. I love the way this man wrote. I have no doubt that it could've been great as films. Someone needs to find them, cleaned them of dust, adapt and record. Especialy the one based on the "Beyound the Black River".
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Post by KiramidHead on Feb 14, 2016 15:10:46 GMT -5
My copy is a scan of the first draft, and there's no King of Thieves title in sight. I know Thomas and Conway referred to it as such in the introduction to Horn of Azoth, but that's not what the script is called.
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Post by BlackHeart on Feb 14, 2016 16:05:48 GMT -5
Only they know for real, KaramidHead. I read some interwiev with Thomas, and watch some of the same, he call it King of Thieves - and say that they keep that in a dialogue when Taramis meets Conan for the first time (final draft) and refered to him as "So, you are Conan... Conan the barbarian... Conan the Destroyer... Conan, king of thieves, and I... I am Taramis. Queen of Shadizar!" This can be seen in a Marvel Movie special adaptation of the film; they kepp some stuff wich are cut from the final instalment. Tell me, how can I find this script? I try everything and I get the same results - not existed.
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Post by KiramidHead on Feb 14, 2016 16:23:00 GMT -5
I got it from a friend who collects scripts. I'll upload it and post a link: Click here
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Post by BlackHeart on Feb 14, 2016 17:39:18 GMT -5
Thanks, my friend I've search for it and never could find it. If enything I can do...
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Post by KiramidHead on Feb 14, 2016 17:59:42 GMT -5
Well if you ever come across that rewrite of Crown of Iron, let me know. I can't find shit, and I'm really looking. XD
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Post by BlackHeart on Feb 14, 2016 18:10:26 GMT -5
I'l keep that in mind. Dont worry. I'm looking for it also. I just read alot of it, but never read the script. Only have first draft.
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Post by KiramidHead on Feb 14, 2016 18:57:26 GMT -5
Okay, cool. 8)
Also, I finished off the Conan the Conqueror script today. I actually thought it was decent, if not exactly in step with Arnold's Conan. I liked how bits of The Scarlet Citadel were worked in, and Akiro got to be pretty badass. It was cool seeing the takeover of the slave galley, and Zenobia's scenes with Conan worked very well. Now, the flaws... one that stands out to me are the awkward opening with the flashback crammed into Akivasha's resurrection scene. That felt like the final scene of a different movie. The setup with Conan marrying Akivasha and fake dying was a little rushed, too. Also, I find it really, really ridiculous that a Khitan wizard and an Aquilonian minstrel are more familiar with Crom's mythology than Conan is. Just, what? XD I will say that I honestly didn't mind Conan's demon monster baby at the end, but I would have preferred if it didn't grow to giant size and Conan just ended its misery sooner.
So yeah, not as bad as I expected based on that crappy Kull movie it got turned into.
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Post by BlackHeart on Feb 16, 2016 15:23:13 GMT -5
Frankly, I think that the Conqueror could've been a pretty good movie, with a little processing of the script and a good director. What is left in the end in the Kull the Conqueror, is not even a third of the original works. And (thanks to Rafaela and Don Mancini) it was both stupefied and simplified for the final instalment. The script was rewritten for a number of reasons. To them, it didn't make sense to hire Kevin and then deliver a R-rated movie. There were also budget concerns. If Arnold had done the film, it would have been easy to spend $60 or $70 million. Without Arnold, the film was had to be made for much less. But the big reason behind the rewrite was for the tone. The original Pogue script "was great" they said, but it was much darker and much more violent. They needed a script that was much lighter in spirit. Crom! How a man needs to be stupid to try to do a film based on the characters of Robert E. Howard, which is "lighter in spirit"? And they still expected success of it!!! Wow... IQ of that person must be equal to the number of my shoes. As far as the original, I admit it - I liked the script. I really did. Which does not mean that it was extraordinary, just good - could'v been better - story. But good one. When they decided to turn it into a Kull movie, John Nicolella (director) said: "Pogue's script was very nicely done, but it was very dark and very much in the Conan the Barbarian vein." In the Conan the Barbarian vein... Conan the Barbarian vein! CONAN...! Damn... And so it was that Conan became Kull, and we get a childish film instead of solid, raw, bloody, with nudity and all that makes a REH based movie. No, early draft was not a faithful adaptation of the original work. But if we start from the fact that this was supposed to be Arnie Conan film, after the Nietzschean Ubermench from the CtB 1982, this would be a delicacy to a fans of REH. It would've been surely a hundred times beter than the Destroyer... And surely much beter than the Barbarian.
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Post by KiramidHead on Feb 16, 2016 16:20:35 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd disagree on the "better than Barbarian" part, but the script was genuinely decent and could have made for a perfectly fine movie. Now, I've started rereading that first draft of Crown of Iron... and I like it. Sorry. XD
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Post by BlackHeart on Feb 16, 2016 16:38:49 GMT -5
Why? I like it (on some weird way) myself. All in all, its a good story, but a litle bit fragmental. I like the way Milius wrote, not only in Conan but in everything. He could be great S&S writer. He has some world wiew like my self. He create great stuff in Crown of Iron, only it would fit better in Kalidor story than in one about Conan. Conan is Conan, and Conan isnt some viking proto samurai, who goes trough life with Ghingies Kan philosophy. Conan, to this day, can only be found in REH yarns and nowhere else. We never saw one movie about CONAN... Just a few movies about "diferent version" of Conan. I dont hate Miliuss Conan. I respect that character. It was poverfull barbarian figure. Like I respect Millius himself. Its trough movies that I first time heard of Conan. But still i prefer the ORIGINAL!
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Post by KiramidHead on Feb 16, 2016 16:48:25 GMT -5
Nah, I just know that Crown of Iron doesn't have the greatest reputation among Howard fans, and even I agree that it totally screws up the Hyborian world.
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Post by BlackHeart on Feb 16, 2016 18:14:32 GMT -5
Unfortunately ... Milius had made a valid story (epic at all, but - not Conan), he romanised the Aquilonians, changed even a geography (because Mesantia is not the capital of Zingara, but Kordav), there is not even preserve the original names like Trocero, Prospero, Publius, Numedides ... What can I say? As if he waned to his work (except by name) has nothing to do with the original. That's why I say that as a story it has some worth. But as the story of Conan of Cimmeria... Man...
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Post by KiramidHead on Feb 18, 2016 22:42:35 GMT -5
I finished my reread of Crown of Iron, and I do like the story on the whole, in spite of this draft being messy and unfocused (I'm talking about you, random ice phallus!). And I'll agree about the geography being all screwy; it's just so weird to have virtually the entire world conquered by the Aquilonians. The Romanization doesn't really bother me *that* much, even if Milius went absolutely insane with it. Then again, I don't really have a history with the... Aquiromans? I think that's what they're called. But the departures do bother me on the whole, because the Hyborian world is something I feel the 82 film captured very well. I should mention that I've sunk so low as to ask thearnoldfans if they have access to the rewrite... yeah. XD
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Post by BlackHeart on Feb 19, 2016 15:26:24 GMT -5
I agree that the Barbarian very successfully portrayed the image and spirit of the Hyborian age. I like the way in which it was recorded. Old school filmmaker is something thats missing in our time. I will also say this (at the risk of bringing upon myself the wrath of our barbarian brothers in this forum) that Milius was the right man to make a movie about Conan. But not to write it. Imagine that Peter Jackson decided to do Lord of the Rings, but according to his own "diferent" vision. We would get something that is relatively based on the original, but of the original would not be even a trace. Thats what Milius done with REHs writings. Especially in his King Conan version. Once again I emphasize that with story wich goes trough the "Crown of Iron" script I have no problems. The story has a weight and emotional depth. But it is heresy perpetrated to Two Gun Bob. I understand, at the beginning of the recording CtB nobody promised to show the original works, and so even of his successor naturaly I did not expect original. From this point, it might be that such a movie could've been accepted. But in the end, again we come back to what is missing to every damn movie about Conan the Cimmerian - ORIGINAL BASED STORY!!! Personally, I have nothing against Arnold in the role of Conan. I think his accent fits the character (in my opinion sounds more powerful than might have sounded Irish or Scottish), his face was rough, his appearance (from the first movie of cource) was prety dark and unforgiving ... All in all, Conan I imagined when I read the original. What is wrong with Arnie to be perfect is a different recording system, in order to look faster and to give catlike ease of movement, and diferent written role. He is inteligenent and able to carry out such a thing. That the story was different and that he had someone who truly respects the character to lead him through this role, I believe that many here today would sing a different tune when it comes to his interpretation of Conan. But, this is a script thread, and so, I apologize for a slight diversion from the topic. PS If you find second draft, let me know PPS If you need CtB second draft, let me know
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