Where is the Seventh Empire?

[bazinga]

The Kull stories often mention "the Seven Empires," but when it came to writing "The Hyborian Age," Howard only ever listed six. These were "Kamelia,
 Valusia, Verulia, Grondar, Thule and Commoria."

The full relevant text is as follows:
"Known history begins with the waning of the
 Pre-Cataclysmic civilization, dominated by the kingdoms of Kamelia,
 Valusia, Verulia, Grondar, Thule and Commoria. These peoples spoke a
 similar language, arguing a common origin. There were other kingdoms,
 equally civilized, but inhabited by different, and apparently older
 races."

Now, the "known history begins" part is, I think, important. It establishes that although there was a "seventh empire," it has collapsed by the time of "the waning of the
Pre-Cataclysmic civilization."

Interestingly, Kamelia, Thule and Commoria are never mentioned in the Kull stories, further muddying the water. It's very possible that some or all of these nations did not exist at the time of Kull, although personally I would prefer to imagine that these nations existed through Kull's time until the Cataclysm. In general, I reject that argument on the grounds that "These peoples spoke a
similar language, arguing a common origin," which says to me they are at least as old as the other Thurian nations, but this isn't conclusive, and their absence from the Kull stories speaks against them.

(Regarding Deuce's speculation the Commoria is to become Cimmeria: I like it and want to believe it, but I find it odd that Howard mentioned "Commoria" and "the Continental kingdom of the Atlanteans" separately. See this quote: "Of the bickerings
 of the kingdoms, and the wars between Valusia and Commoria, as well as
 the conquests by which the Atlanteans founded a kingdom on the
 mainland, there were more legends than accurate history." Then again, it could be that what Howard is describing here are not separate, simultaneous occurrences, but rather a sequence of events: bickering kingdoms, leading to wars between Valusia and Commoria, leading to the Atlanteans exploiting this and conquering a weakened nation, perhaps in alliance with a Valusian assault. I'm as yet undecided, but Deuce's speculation is very appealing to believe.)

If we avoid muddying the water and assume that the six kingdoms Howard mentions are in fact six of the Seven Empires, then this leaves one empire unnamed. If we look at Deuce's excellent map of the Thurian Age, even ignoring Thule, Commoria and Kamelia -- even, in fact, ignoring Verulia for which we have no completely certain geographical position -- we still have Valusia and Grondar with Valusia sandwiched between, with as sea closing off the north and Thurania closing off the south. If we imagine that the Thurian nations are contiguous as the later Hyborian nations, then this leaves Zarfhaana as the most likely candidate for the Seventh Empire.

Do we have further evidence for this? Well, in the "Riders Beyond the Sunrise" fragment, we do see the ruler of Zarfhaana explicitly referred to as an emperor: "Just beyond the frontier, Kull, having send an envoy to the Zarfhaana'an emperor..." and only moments later, in the same sequence, Brule asks Kull "In what city of the Seven Empires were you born, lord king?" Howard would clearly have had Zarfhaana's emperor in mind when he wrote this line, and so it seems clear to me that Zarfhaana is the Seventh Empire.

I guess the wild Grondarians, like the Turanians that followed them, just overran it before the age was up...

[deuce]

Two very important facts to keep in mind:
Thule, Commoria and Kamelia are never named in the Kull yarns.
The Seven Empires are never mentioned in "The Hyborian Age".

If we want to get hermeneutic (ie, "in the mind of REH"), then Thule, Commoria, and Kamelia COULD NOT have been candidates for membership within the Seven Empires when REH was actually talking about the Seven Empires in the Kull tales, since it seems almost certain that he didn't invent them until ca. 1932. That said, I don't go for the hermeneutic approach except when absolutely necessary. I look at the yarns through a "historicist" and iterative/inclusive lens.

There are only six possible Seven Empire nations named in the Kull yarns. There are only six ethnically Thurian kingdoms named in THA. We come up one short either way.

I've always liked Farsun as a kingdom. Farsunians seem to produce bold swashbucklers of various stripes. That said, it really doesn't have a better claim to Empire status than Zarfhaana. Farsun seems to be on the outs with Valusia pretty regularly, while Zarfhaana seems to be fairly tight with Valusia and would appear to be a bigger country than Farsun.

My solution is Thurania. We know just about zero regarding it outside the name and geographical position. That, and it was actually a country that existed in REH's mind when he was writing the Kull yarns.

For me, the name is the clincher. We seem to be in the default mode of "whatever kingdoms were named in THA" and I'm OK with that--though it can't be argued as any sort of established fact. All of those kingdoms are ethnically Thurian and make a coherent package. Howard certainly thought in those terms in other instances, such as the Hyborian nations of the Hyborian Age. Judging from its name, Thurania would seem to have been ethnically Thurian at some point. It's hard not to see it that way. However, it's not listed with the other Thurian-speaking nations.

Here's how I've seen the history of Thurania for at least the last 20yrs: "Thurania" (whatever its old name was at the time) was one of the "Lost Race" kingdoms settled by peoples from the Lost Lands to the southeast (just like Zarfhaana was). It may have even been more than one kingdom/principality when the Thurians showed up (just as "Zarfhaana" was likely several kingdoms during the same period). A tribe of barbaric Thurians (possibly a conglomeration of two or more tribes) shows up from the east (3000+yrs before Kull), out of World's End. They conquer the region we now know as Thurania, giving it its present name ("land of the Thurians" or whatever; somewhat analogous to HA Hyperborea). However, somewhat like the case of Zingara in the Hyborian Age (and France or several other examples in real history), the conquerors eventually were absorbed into the native culture, adopting the "Lost Race" tongue of the common people.

However, the "Heroic Age" of Thurian barbaric conquest was when the "Seven Empires" club was formed ("empire" originally meant "conquered lands ruled by the conqueror" after all) and Thurania was the founding member, the one who established a Thurian foothold on the west bank of the Stagus. It's nobility (much like the French nobility until the Revolution) still traces its lineage back to those barbarian conquerors.

That's my take.   

[bazinga]

You're right, of course, but as I said, I wanted to open the conversation considering only the nations mentioned in THA. But it is worthwhile examining the others. As I mentioned, Howard mentions "the Seven Empires" almost in the same breath as he repeatedly names "the emperor of Zarfhaana." So it seems to me unlikely that he didn't intend Zarfhaana to be one of them.

Its absense from THA is glaring, but I think this is also explained by a "Riders" quote: "A soft and lazy land, thought Kull, a dainty girl, waiting helpless for some ruthless conqueror." Whether Kull follows through with his dreams or some other nation does, Zarfhaana, although once one of the "Seven Empires," is erased before the close of the Thurian Age.

Thurania is interesting. I'm not sure Thurania is any more Thurian than Turan is, despite the similar name. Remember that Howard initially named it the Thulean Age before apparently deciding "Thurian" sounded better, thus Thurian derives from Thule and not Thurania. I suppose it is also possible that Thurania and Thule are variant names for the same country. After all, we're deriving much of our information from unpublished works. Maybe he changed his mind. Food for thought.

So, the possibility remains that the "Seven Empires" and the Thurian nations need not necessarily overlap. After all, although Zarfhanna is indisputably AN empire, if not one of the Seven, it certainly isn't described as being one of the dominant nations.

I'm also not comfortable calling Grondar an empire, but it depends on Howard's definition. I will have to check his letters for how he used the word, whether he simply meant large conquests of a nation or whether the king himself had to hold ultimate power, which Grondar lacks.

And as with Zarfhaana's implied fall, it could be that other nations rose to power to become THA's "dominant nations" while the "Seven Empires" fell. It could even be that the Seven Empires was more a philosophical concept, and if one nation fell and another rose, its "membership" changed, but I personally don't think Howard was thinking in those terms.

I sadly don't have a copy of Howard's many Hyborian Age drafts. If you know where I can get these, I'd love to take a look to see if more of the Thurian Age can be gleaned from them.