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Post by deuce on Feb 18, 2016 12:11:57 GMT -5
I'm surprised nobody has done this thread already. It's for all the various chronologies proposed for the original Conan tales. Trying to figure in pastiches is a total losers' game. The pastiches contradict each other and REH. Plus, there are about 50 of 'em. If I post a Conan pastiche tomorrow (the one where he's a transvestite in Kosala), will that get figured in? Here's a history of "A Probable Outline of Conan's Career" by REH scholar Scotty Henderson: www.robert-e-howard.org/CPjournal1.html#The History of A Probable Outline of Conan's Feel free to discuss the Miller/Clark outline or any other (REH) Conan chronology.  |
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elegos7
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Post by elegos7 on Feb 18, 2016 12:46:10 GMT -5
I would be interested in Miller's original letter that started this whole process.
But I have never seen it published anywhere. Perhaps it was lost, together with many of REH's stories after his death.
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Post by lordyam on Feb 18, 2016 22:19:14 GMT -5
there is ONE inconsistency with miller. Miller places devil before xuthal, when in devil conan mentions xuthal
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Post by KiramidHead on Feb 18, 2016 22:29:53 GMT -5
The placements Ive thought about with any great detail are "The Frost Giant's Daughter", which I tend to agree with later chronologies goes first horned helmet be damned, and the relation of Iron Shadows in the Moon with The Devil in Iron. I know the names of the kings are different, but I've toyed with placing TDiI first since Conan is still the leader of the kozaki there, while they've been wiped out in ISstM.
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Post by deuce on Feb 26, 2016 7:59:10 GMT -5
I would be interested in Miller's original letter that started this whole process. But I have never seen it published anywhere. Perhaps it was lost, together with many of REH's stories after his death. To my knowledge, none of the Miller letter(s) to REH survive. |
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 26, 2016 13:15:13 GMT -5
The placements Ive thought about with any great detail are "The Frost Giant's Daughter", which I tend to agree with later chronologies goes first horned helmet be damned, and the relation of Iron Shadows in the Moon with The Devil in Iron. I know the names of the kings are different, but I've toyed with placing TDiI first since Conan is still the leader of the kozaki there, while they've been wiped out in ISstM.
I never got the obsession with the helmet that had people lock FGD into a "mid" placement. You get a helmet, you lose one, you get another one.
The main issue with trying to get IS after Devil is People of the Black Circle. Would the easterners let someone who just got his butt kicked by the king of Turan (whatever his name is) and had his whole force be wiped out, take over their group? IS is such a tough nut to crack, it really doesn't quite fit anywhere! I think the best placement is relatively early around the time he was supposed to be in Hyrkania learning archery.
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Post by KiramidHead on Feb 26, 2016 13:24:23 GMT -5
The placements Ive thought about with any great detail are "The Frost Giant's Daughter", which I tend to agree with later chronologies goes first horned helmet be damned, and the relation of Iron Shadows in the Moon with The Devil in Iron. I know the names of the kings are different, but I've toyed with placing TDiI first since Conan is still the leader of the kozaki there, while they've been wiped out in ISstM.
I never got the obsession with the helmet that had people lock FGD into a "mid" placement. You get a helmet, you lose one, you get another one.
The main issue with trying to get IS after Devil is People of the Black Circle. Would the easterners let someone who just got his butt kicked by the king of Turan (whatever his name is) and had his whole force be wiped out, take over their group? IS is such a tough nut to crack, it really doesn't quite fit anywhere! I think the best placement is relatively early around the time he was supposed to be in Hyrkania learning archery.
That would make sense. Perhaps the pirate ship from the end of IS would be where he gained experience in archery on a ship. |
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 26, 2016 13:52:47 GMT -5
there is ONE inconsistency with miller. Miller places devil before xuthal, when in devil conan mentions xuthal The two best places for Slithering Shadow/Xuthal to move would be between (Iron) Shadows and Witch and between Zamboula and Devil. Putting it in the earlier placement has the two rebel prince of Koth stories back to back. Dale Rippke uses this as a reason to give the stories some separation (I generally agree), but using the criteria of "clues" in the stories themselves, this would probably be an argument for putting the two together. If you want to think of them as two different rebel princes, then the later placement is as good a place for it.
Otherwise, considering all they had to work with was just the stories in Weird Tales, they did a very good job.
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fernando
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Post by fernando on Mar 11, 2016 6:33:07 GMT -5
I still believe TDiI takes place before XotD.
"He decided that she must be an addict of some drug," - Conan's thought.
"perhaps like the black lotus of Xuthal" - REH's thought.
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Post by johnnypt on Mar 11, 2016 11:54:15 GMT -5
I still believe TDiI takes place before XotD. "He decided that she must be an addict of some drug," - Conan's thought. "p erhaps like the black lotus of Xuthal" - REH's thought.
I don't think you can read the sentence like that. Here's the entire paragraph:
He scowled down at her. She seemed to partake of the illusion that haunted this whole city, but the firm resilience of her limbs under his questing fingers convinced him that he had a living human girl in his arms, and not the shadow of a dream. No less disturbed, he hastily laid her on the furs upon the dais. Her sleep was too deep to be natural. He decided that she must be an addict of some drug, perhaps like the black lotus of Xuthal.
The whole paragraph (as well as the rest of the chapter following) is from Conan's point of view As a reader, the impression clearly is Conan is thinking what kind of drug the girl is addicted to and he comes to this conclusion. It's hard to think in the middle of this sequence that Howard would pull the reader out of the narrative to write down his own unique observation that would be meaningless to someone who possibly hadn't read Slithering Shadow. If it had been a reference to something popular culture would know in the early 30s, then that argument would be stronger.
Occam's razor-they just made a slight mistake in placement.
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fernando
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Post by fernando on Apr 1, 2016 14:00:40 GMT -5
I don't think you can read the sentence like that. Here's the entire paragraph:
He scowled down at her. She seemed to partake of the illusion that haunted this whole city, but the firm resilience of her limbs under his questing fingers convinced him that he had a living human girl in his arms, and not the shadow of a dream. No less disturbed, he hastily laid her on the furs upon the dais. Her sleep was too deep to be natural. He decided that she must be an addict of some drug, perhaps like the black lotus of Xuthal.
The whole paragraph (as well as the rest of the chapter following) is from Conan's point of view As a reader, the impression clearly is Conan is thinking what kind of drug the girl is addicted to and he comes to this conclusion. It's hard to think in the middle of this sequence that Howard would pull the reader out of the narrative to write down his own unique observation that would be meaningless to someone who possibly hadn't read Slithering Shadow. If it had been a reference to something popular culture would know in the early 30s, then that argument would be stronger.
Occam's razor-they just made a slight mistake in placement.
With all due respect, I disagree.  In TFGD, for instance, REH mentions Poitain, which doesn't mean Conan went to southwestern Aquilonia in his way between Cimmeria and Asgard.  |
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fernando
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Post by fernando on Apr 1, 2016 14:30:39 GMT -5
As soon as I have time, I'll post my own Conan's chronology - actually the same I posted in The REH Forum, years ago. |
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Post by amrathelion on Aug 31, 2017 16:31:16 GMT -5
I thought it should go something like this.
The Frost-Giant's Daughter
The God in the Bowl
The Tower of the Elephant
Untitled Synopsis a.k.a. The Nestor Synopsis
Rogues in the House
Untitled Fragment a.k.a. The Yaralet Fragment
Black Colossus
A Witch Shall be Born
The Man-Eaters of Zamboula
Queen of the Black Coast
Untitled Synopsis/Draft a.k.a. The Shumballa Typescripts
Xuthal of the Dusk
Iron Shadows in the Moon
The Devil in Iron
People of the Black Circle
Untitled Synopsis/Draft a.k.a. The Tombalku Typescripts
The Vale of Lost Women
The Servants of Bit-Yakin
The Pool of the Black One
Red Nails
Beyond the Black River
The Black Stranger
Wolves Beyond the Border Typescripts
The Phoenix on the Sword
The Scarlet Citadel
The Hour of the Dragon
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Post by johnnypt on Sept 1, 2017 6:43:18 GMT -5
I thought it should go something like this. The Frost-Giant's Daughter The God in the Bowl The Tower of the Elephant Untitled Synopsis a.k.a. The Nestor Synopsis Rogues in the House Untitled Fragment a.k.a. The Yaralet Fragment Black Colossus A Witch Shall be Born The Man-Eaters of Zamboula Queen of the Black Coast Untitled Synopsis/Draft a.k.a. The Shumballa Typescripts Xuthal of the Dusk Iron Shadows in the Moon The Devil in Iron People of the Black Circle Untitled Synopsis/Draft a.k.a. The Tombalku Typescripts The Vale of Lost Women The Servants of Bit-Yakin The Pool of the Black One Red Nails Beyond the Black River The Black Stranger Wolves Beyond the Border Typescripts The Phoenix on the Sword The Scarlet Citadel The Hour of the Dragon I remembering reading your expansive work on the old site (is all that work posted elsewhere? The annotations are essential reading). I think we may have discussed it back then, but why Xuthal before Iron Shadows and Bit-Yakin after Pool? Since I've been reading a lot of Howard's other stories the past few months and noting the connections he made to previous stories, references to earlier works were purposeful. If we wrote "Conan, late of the Baracha Isles" in Servants, he almost certainly meant to refer to his time with the in Pool since that was the only time he'd referred to them before. And I'm not sure Conan would be in a hurry to go back to fighting for a rebel prince of Koth again in IS after his time with Almuric didn't end so well. Not that the situation in IS was much better, both times the entire army ended up getting wiped out. I know I questioned why Witch is so early, but now I can see it: Conan leaves Khoraja, needs a job, winds up in Khauran, wanders around with the Zuagirs in Turan and Hyrkania, goes to Zamboula, then out to Argos and Queen. Still probably prefer it later, but this could work. |
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Post by johnnypt on Sept 1, 2017 6:45:18 GMT -5
I don't think you can read the sentence like that. Here's the entire paragraph:
He scowled down at her. She seemed to partake of the illusion that haunted this whole city, but the firm resilience of her limbs under his questing fingers convinced him that he had a living human girl in his arms, and not the shadow of a dream. No less disturbed, he hastily laid her on the furs upon the dais. Her sleep was too deep to be natural. He decided that she must be an addict of some drug, perhaps like the black lotus of Xuthal.
The whole paragraph (as well as the rest of the chapter following) is from Conan's point of view As a reader, the impression clearly is Conan is thinking what kind of drug the girl is addicted to and he comes to this conclusion. It's hard to think in the middle of this sequence that Howard would pull the reader out of the narrative to write down his own unique observation that would be meaningless to someone who possibly hadn't read Slithering Shadow. If it had been a reference to something popular culture would know in the early 30s, then that argument would be stronger.
Occam's razor-they just made a slight mistake in placement.
With all due respect, I disagree. In TFGD, for instance, REH mentions Poitain, which doesn't mean Conan went to southwestern Aquilonia in his way between Cimmeria and Asgard. As I noted above, since I've been on this Howard kick the past few months, reading all the different kinds of stories he wrote, when he referred to a previous story, he meant it in the context of the character's past exploits. He did it with other characters, and with El Borak, he even referred to things he wrote as a teenager!
BTW-Can you point out the section in TFGD that mentions Poitain? I just went through both Frost Giant's Daughter and the Amra version and didn't see it.
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In TFGD, for instance, REH mentions Poitain, which doesn't mean Conan went to southwestern Aquilonia in his way between Cimmeria and Asgard. 
