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Post by Jason Aiken on Feb 19, 2016 16:12:31 GMT -5
Started reading this today and the first chapter made quite an impression. This brought to mind a few things I already enjoy: H. Rider Haggard's Nada the Lily (due to the setting and a bit of the style) and Philip José Farmer's Ancient Opar/Khokarsa series (due to the world building, including the use of new terms) being at the forefront. I'm looking forward to seeing Imaro's progression into a warrior against an African sword and sorcery backdrop. The identify of his father being unknown is pretty intriguing. I'm not sure if that's something that Saunders is going to elaborate on or not, but I guess I'll find out. I have Imaro in both the new ebook edition (Contains a new story, "The Afua" to replace "The Slaves of the Giant-Kings"): www.amazon.com/Imaro-Book-Charles-R-Saunders-ebook/dp/B00NEU3KR8/ | www.lulu.com/shop/charles-r-saunders/imaro-book-one/ebook/product-21780312.htmland the DAW Paperback (since one story within it, "The Slaves of the Giant-Kings" was excluded from the new edition. According to wikipedia Saunders felt it read too close to the real life Rwandan Genocide.): www.amazon.com/Imaro-Charles-Saunders/dp/1597800368/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaro
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Post by thedarkman on Feb 19, 2016 17:00:11 GMT -5
I have the DAW paperback, mint condition signed by Mr. Saunders. It is one of my most prized possessions, and one of my favorite S&S novels, ever. I like how this book is a collection of linked short stories, much like Keith Taylor's Bard novel. I wish the rest of the Imaro novels were available in ebook format...
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Post by Jason Aiken on Feb 19, 2016 19:13:06 GMT -5
I have the DAW paperback, mint condition signed by Mr. Saunders. It is one of my most prized possessions, and one of my favorite S&S novels, ever. I like how this book is a collection of linked short stories, much like Keith Taylor's Bard novel. I wish the rest of the Imaro novels were available in ebook format... Damn. Hold onto that one Yeah, I'd love to get the rest of the series, but they're not in ebook format as of yet I'm not sure why they aren't. If you don't put books out in ebook format...you're not going to sell any ebooks. If there is any cannibalization of hard copy sales, I suspect the overall ebook sales would more than make up for it. But who knows, if I enjoy this first book as much as I suspect, I might have to get the whole series in hard copy anyway.
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Post by thedarkman on Feb 19, 2016 19:49:34 GMT -5
Look forward to your review, I really enjoyed these tales. To me, this is what real S&S should look like. Along with Howard, Wagner, Taylor and all those old school, pulp influenced writers.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Feb 20, 2016 20:36:36 GMT -5
Just finished "Turkhana Knives". Man that was good stuff.
I thought it was interesting how Saunders focused on just how valuable the Ilyassai held a single cow. It makes sense, given the milk and beef each one can provide. This is clearly a well researched series.
The prominence of the cattle within the dynamic of the tribe brought my memory back to an event from author Manly Wade Wellman's childhood when he and his family lived among an African tribe in his youth. David Drake spoke about this in his introduction titled "Manly in the Stone Age" to Paizo's Planet Stories collection of Battle in the Dawn: The Complete Hok the Mighty:
As for the rest of "Turkhana Knives," I have to say it was pretty damn good. I enjoyed seeing the results of actual sorcery on display. The way Saunders showed a bit of kinship between Imaro and the sorcerer within their respective tribes was also fairly well done. Imaro is a freaking BEAST, though. Something tells me he has some very beneficial genes, not only from his mother, but his father has to be a monster of a man, too. Even as a man-child, he seems strong as hell. I'm definitely looking forward to learning about this back story.
My one quibble with the new ebook edition (http://www.lulu.com/shop/charles-r-saunders/imaro-book-one/ebook/product-21780312.html) is the poor copy editing. There was one typo I spotted in the prologue, but "Turkhana Knives" had several. Luckily I had the DAW paperback to consult. It wasn't anything major, a dropped word or improper word here and there.
One thing that jumped out at me, though is I suspect someone typed these new editions while looking at the originals. Because "from" became "fro,"
m and , are right next to each other on the keyboard, so I think that had to have been what happened there.
I also noticed that Saunders has added or modified an ending sentence to these chapters alluding to the weapon (Imaro) and the crucible (his overall trials I imagine).
I'm hoping the typos stop here, but something tells me they don't. Does anyone have the editions in print? Any typos in there?
These are just small grievances, I'm really enjoying the series so far.
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Post by deuce on Feb 20, 2016 20:46:14 GMT -5
Just finished "Turkhana Knives". Man that was good stuff. I thought it was interesting how Saunders focused on just how valuable the Ilyassai held a single cow. It makes sense, given the milk and beef each one can provide. This is clearly a well researched series. The prominence of the cattle within the dynamic of the tribe brought my memory back to an event from author Manly Wade Wellman's childhood when he and his family lived among an African tribe in his youth. David Drake spoke about this in his introduction titled "Manly in the Stone Age" to Paizo's Planet Stories collection of Battle in the Dawn: The Complete Hok the Mighty: As for the rest of "Turkhana Knives," I have to say it was pretty damn good. I enjoyed seeing the results of actual sorcery on display. The way Saunders showed a bit of kinship between Imaro and the sorcerer within their respective tribes was also fairly well done. Imaro is a freaking BEAST, though. Something tells me he has some very beneficial genes, not only from his mother, but his father has to be a monster of a man, too. Even as a man-child, he seems strong as hell. I'm definitely looking forward to learning about this back story. CRS based the Ilyassai on the Maasai. Maasai boys basically live on milk and cow blood. Every pastoral people is intensely protective of their livestock. They guard them day and night. One reason nomads/herders generally make better warriors (but not always soldiers). Imaro has some interesting ancestry. I lost all my new editions in the Flood. I remember typos from the NS/Lulu editions.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Feb 23, 2016 20:07:59 GMT -5
Very cool, deuce. Thanks for that insight. I'm not as familiar with the Masai as i am with the Zulu. I'll have to do some reading up on them. I believe the Masai played a role in the Ki-Gor pulps during the 40's and 50's.
Just finished "The Place of Stones." I was thinking this wouldn't be too good, as it's Imaro fighting another sorcerer, but boy was I wrong. This is a pivotal story in the Imaro mythos and was pretty damn good. There were times when Imaro reminded me of Conan, even.
Between a fearsome, sorcerer-breaking warrior, a ruined city, and a re-animated eldritch race, this was a true sword and sorcery tale, top to bottom.
Imaro is one strong son of a bitch, though. I'd say he's at least Conan level, but there also seems to be something a bit superhuman at work, too. I'd like to see him face a creature that prides itself on brute strength to see how he matches up.
Unfortunately, "The Place of Stones" had a few typos in the new ebook edition again. Here's on example, in the original DAW paperback, during the climatic battle scene with Chitendu in the Place of Stones, there is a sentence where Saunders refers to Chitendu, not by name, but by his title, oibonok. It looked like he meant to refer to him by name in this new edition, but he's called Muburi (who was Chitendu's underling) instead.
It's too bad the publisher didn't ask just one more person to proofread this, as I think these are all very catch-able.
After finishing "The Place of Stones" I had to decide what to read next.
Do I read the excised "Slaves of the Giant-Kings" from the original DAW edition?
Or "The Afua", the new short story added for the new edition....
It looks like "Slaves of the Giant-Kings" takes place three days after "The Place of Stones" and "The Afua" takes place six days after. So I'll stick to the chronological order and go with "Slaves of the Giant-Kings" and then "The Afua."
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Post by deuce on Feb 23, 2016 20:17:21 GMT -5
Very cool, deuce. Thanks for that insight. I'm not as familiar with the Masai as i am with the Zulu. I'll have to do some reading up on them. I believe the Masai played a role in the Ki-Gor pulps during the 40's and 50's. Ki-Gor was a knock-off of Tarzan. Tarzan's Waziri were mostly based on the Maasai. I would read SotGK first.
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Post by televiper on Feb 25, 2016 11:15:28 GMT -5
I'm about to start the second Imaro book. So far, I am loving the series.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Aug 8, 2016 14:57:26 GMT -5
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Post by wulfhere on Aug 8, 2016 15:09:00 GMT -5
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Post by Jason Aiken on Aug 8, 2016 17:09:39 GMT -5
Thanks, that's a weird depiction of a konda on the cover I linked. Looks too small. The one depicted on the white Nightshade cover of Imaro looks more accurate in size. Are any of these swords named? Any of them legendary weapons ala Stormbringer, etc..?
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Post by Jason Aiken on Aug 16, 2016 16:42:08 GMT -5
Just finished reading "Slaves of the Giant Kings" in the original DAW edition. It may be retconned now and replaced with "The Afua" but I'm glad I purchased the old paperback and read it, because this is some pretty good shit. Imaro is a freaking beast in this one, doing the job of 3+ men in the mines, taking a thirty stroke whipping like nothing, killing another sorcerer, and getting the girl at the end. I thought this had a really cool setting, too. Kind of a combination of H. Rider Haggard's Kor and Burroughs' Opar....being a volcano with gold mines. The class system was also pretty interesting, regarding the three races Imaro encounters. I kept picturing the Mwambututssi or the Giant Kings as Manut Bull and the B'twi as Mugsy Boggs lol www.thetallestman.com/images/manutebol/manutebol.jpgI didn't realize that this story was retconned until today, as I assumed since the opening of "Slaves of the Giant-Kings" states three cycles of the moon had passed since Imaro left the Place of Stones, and the opening of "The Afua" states six cycles of the moon had passed since Imaro left it, you could fit "Giant Kings" in there. After reading the rest of the opening to "The Afua" that's definitely not the case, this appears to totally retell how Imaro meets Tanisha and the haramia. I can understand and respect the author's desire to change this due to similarities to the Rwandan Genocide that occurred in the 1990's, but it seems like a lot of effort to rework everything so the new story fits. I'll be curious to see how he handles it in the coming stories.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Aug 19, 2016 0:07:10 GMT -5
Finished reading "The Afua" wow that was really different from "Slaves of the Giant-Kings!"
He completely changed the leadership roles within the haramia. Hell, he even changed it so two characters became three (the leader and strong man are now two different characters, rather than the latter being the disguise the former uses in a ruse.
I think "Slaves of the Giant-Kings" was a better story, but "The Afua" was pretty damn good, too.
I noticed that Saunders dialed back Imaro's superhuman strength and endurance from what he depicted in "Slaves of the Giant-Kings." I was getting the impression in that story he was damn near superhuman at times. The Imaro in "The Afua" is more Conan-like rather than Hercules.
Enjoyed the ending of "The Afua," too, that was a nice twist.
Now...what do I do going forward....read BOTH the DAW and Nightshade editions...or just stick with the Nightshades.... Something tells me this retconning has to smooth out sooner or later. I imagine Imaro doesn't spend the rest of his life with the haramia, so that's probably where the rewriting will end for the most part I would think.
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Post by deuce on Aug 19, 2016 0:31:34 GMT -5
Finished reading "The Afua" wow that was really different from "Slaves of the Giant-Kings!" He completely changed the leadership roles within the haramia. Hell, he even changed it so two characters became three (the leader and strong man are now two different characters, rather than the latter being the disguise the former uses in a ruse. I think "Slaves of the Giant-Kings" was a better story, but "The Afua" was pretty damn good, too. I noticed that Saunders dialed back Imaro's superhuman strength and endurance from what he depicted in "Slaves of the Giant-Kings." I was getting the impression in that story he was damn near superhuman at times. The Imaro in "The Afua" is more Conan-like rather than Hercules. Enjoyed the ending of "The Afua," too, that was a nice twist. Now...what do I do going forward....read BOTH the DAW and Nightshade editions...or just stick with the Nightshades.... Something tells me this retconning has to smooth out sooner or later. I imagine Imaro doesn't spend the rest of his life with the haramia, so that's probably where the rewriting will end for the most part I would think. The Afua is the only major retcon. I agree that "Giant-Kings" is better (one of my favorites). In fact, my saying so (rather forcefully) got me into an online argument with CRS. We came to see each other's view and corresponded for years after that.
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