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Post by norseman on Jan 23, 2020 4:41:19 GMT -5
Midnight's Edge posted two videos about the Conan comics this week.
The first, a review of all Conan titles put out by Marvel in 2019:
The second, an in-depth interview with incoming regular writer, Jim Zub:
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Post by Jason Aiken on Jan 29, 2020 15:55:19 GMT -5
With the release today of Conan: The Barbarian #12 we've seen the conclusion of the first year of the Cimmerian back at Marvel Comics. Use this thread for retrospection, analysis, and future predictions related to Conan's return to Marvel.
Note: Any posts that are merely, "Marvel sucks," "This isn't Conan," "Ban the furkini," etc... will be deleted as it's obvious you haven't actually read any of the comics Marvel is putting out.
I'm about 4-5 months behind on Savage Sword, so I'll wait until I'm caught up to post my thoughts on all the books.
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Post by johnnypt on Jan 29, 2020 20:43:34 GMT -5
In short, while I understand the point about not wanting the new issues tied too closely to the past, not having a sense of chronology hasn’t served the current efforts we’ll. Jason did try to tie things in a couple of times (#2 being the most direct), but until the end, we didn’t get a sense of how it fit into his life. His story got better towards the end so if I could give him advice on King Conan, it’s go for shorter stories.
Savage Sword also should’ve shortened its first story, there just wasn’t enough to sustain 5 issues. It may have helped lead to the title’s suspension (I won’t say cancellation yet). I haven’t read the modern crossover series, but Marvel seems to have made a conscious choice to not let him go so easily next time by tying him tightly into their story.
So it certainly could have been better but there seem to be better signs on the horizon. I really think the key reason they did it was to get the reprints back and on that front they’ve knocked it out of the park.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 4:34:48 GMT -5
Here's what I think of Conan the Barbarian: The Life & Death of Conan.
I have read all the issues and initially, was really intrigued by the story of Conan’s final adventure, after all Conan’s no god or superhero that can return from the grave every couple of years. We know from REH that Conan will probably abdicate after a relatively peaceful period in his reign, the neighbouring Kingdoms will no longer represent a threat thanks to the Cimmerian. Conan will eventually abdicate the throne of with no heir, he will not allow one of his kids to inherit the throne either - if you’re gonna use Conn, he’s gotta get out there in the real world and get a real job or earn the right to rule with his own hands, somehow! Conan’s death will occur after this abdication, will he die on one of these adventures in far away lands? Or will he return to save Aquilonia in their darkest hour? I dunno. Getting back to the 12 issue run by Jason Aaron he should have broken up the story into two 6 issues story-arcs that when read together relate the tale of Conan’s eventual death. For this very reason the first trade Paperback is pointless and seems to be going nowhere, with no resolution, or incentive to pick up the next trade.
The pattern is already established after the first issue with one-shots informing the reader that the Cimmerian is very fortunate thanks to his uncanny ability to escape certain death on numerous occasions throughout his life. Along with Conan’s exceptional fighting skills and iron-willed determination to survive despite overwhelming odds makes his blood perfect to resurrect Razazel. Instead of the twins standing over Conan ready to slay the Cimmerian at the end of almost every issue between issues 2 to 11 why not resolve this story by the 6th issue. The addition of these new (lucky) adventures by Aaron destroyed the foundations established in the earlier Roy Thomas run and unforgivabley also destroyed Robert E. Howard’s Conan. The flashbacks demonstrating how Conan escaped death in the past should have been snippets from the original REH yarns. The last 3 issues in the series worked well, but they should have been issues 4 to 6.
In the 2nd story-arc we could have seen the beginning of those adventures after Conan’s abdication of the Aquilonian throne. At this time in Conan’s life I could see him befriend a tribe of Picts, under certain circumstances. This is where Jason Aaron coulda really explored the similarities between Pict and Cimmerian, not in a story set between Beyond the Black River and the Black Stranger! Now, I think it is a great idea to explore the similarities between the Cimmerian and the Pict. Even in BtBR Conan has been among the so-called civilised kingdoms a long time, but to the civilised southerners the Cimmerian is still no different to them than the Picts; he is just a northern savage that they think they can exploit. Little do they know how resourceful, instinctive and intelligent the Cimmerian can be and they tend to underestimate him at their own cost. No wonder he became King of the Greatest Kingdom of the Age, (sorry, I mean the second greatest. Every one knows the Greatest Kingdom is Turan). I think this story should of been placed here and given 2 or 3 issues for it to be little more believable and for the reader to actually like some of the Picts beyond the Shaman.
…and Conan will eventually leave the Picts at the end of the story-arc. In which direction? I dunno? Across the Sea west of the Pictish lands or east beyond the Vilayet? Maybe?
Back in Aquilonia, If Conn does become King I’d make him have to really fight for it. Maybe Conan did not finish the job off and one of the twins survived. Maybe Conan is the real father of the twins and not Lord Bevel Stonemarrow the Witch Butcher of Brythunia. I think it would be interesting to see how Conn would deal with this problem without his father if the twin claimed to be the true heir to the throne.
The art by Mahmud Asrar has improved immensely over the year and he’s lost a little bit of the cartoonish style he had before this run which is a good thing. I really liked the art of guest penciler Gerado Zaffino and would really like to see him illustrate something similar to one of the Glenat hardback editions or something like the original SSOC in Black & White.
The story shoulda been completed in 6 issues and Aaron shoulda given us another 6 issue story-arc with some kinda relevance to the first arc, it’s just the simple stuff that they got wrong in the first year. But, I think (I hope) Aaron knows that now and I am looking forward to the new King Conan series. Hopefully this creative team will improve over the next couple of years and present a Conan run that will be remembered for the right reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 7:41:37 GMT -5
The first story-arc for SSOC with Gerry Duggan and Ron Garney was disappointing. When it comes to the writing by Duggan, he has a strange sense of humour sometimes at the expense of the reader with the pirate and the gun (that could have more to do with the artist and editor). It is even more apparent in Savage Avengers where the Cimmerian is portrayed as a dumb barbarian a little too often. The art by Ron Garney is a little scratchy, which is fine when done with pencils and ink not with a digital tablet. Thankfully Richard Isanove saved the artwork with the colouring. The story again seemed a little too long and the action sequences did not make sense and seemed fragmented, it is so bad sometimes that is difficult to ascertain if it is poor writing by Duggan or poor storytelling skills of Ron Garney. Johnnypt is right this should have been around 3 issues long.
The one shot by Meredith and Luke Ross was pretty good. But, Conan should stop accepting drinks from strangers so easily especially considering he falls for the same trick in Aaron's CtB the same month. Where's the editor?
The 3 part Conan the Gambler by Jim Zub and patch Zircher was an improvement and Jim Zub does at least acknowledge the Roy Thomas run (as demonstrated with the Conan one-shot in Avengers : No Road Home). This one is probably one of the best stories set in the Hyborian Age in 2019, but not great.
The 2 part Roy Thomas story was OK. Roy Thomas knows what he's doing, but, for me it was a little too safe and a little dated. The art by Alan Davis was also dull and awkward, the art could have improved the experience but Davis did not come up with the goods. The colors did not help either.
I'm a little cream-crackered now, so I'll just copy an old post of mine from the relevant thread for the one-shot by Frank Tieri and Andrea Di Vito.
This is truly s£%$!
Conan the Oaf and Saleria (not to be confused with Valeria) fighting against another demonic kid. It gets worse, the demon kid (not to be confused with the evil twins in Jason Aaron's CtB) can only be destroyed by the fires of (not to be confused with Mount Doom) Mount Rokk.
Gimme a break.
I think one thing is evident; Marvel really did not think about how to present the adventures of the Cimmerian in the first year. I do think the majority of the writers on the Conan books really did wanna do a good job, but in this first year it seems like they have only just begun to find their feet with Jim Zub on CtB. Even Gerry Duggan has improved in the last few issues over at Savage Avengers. As I mention in my previous post I hope Jason Aaron will improve on King Conan. So I'm gonna be optimistic and hopefully things will get better.
When and if the SSOC comes back it should be something similar to the DC Black Label series - just imagine seeing a deluxe issue of SSOC on the shelves alongside the DC Black Label books at your local comic book store.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 8:05:45 GMT -5
The first SSOC TPB collection made sense. But the 2nd as an anthology really does not work, especially with the last issue missing. So out out 4 Conan
Trade Paperbacks reprinting the Hyborian Age stuff last year only the 1st volume of SSOC has a complete yarn. That is really poor.
It has been suggested (at Midnight's Edge I think) that the first 12 issues of CTB coulda worked better as a weekly comic - something similar to the Avengers: No Road home series. The story took so long that most new comers to Conan (Mostly Aaron fans I guess) lost interest halfway through the arc and the same goes for the Conan/REH fans for a number of other reasons. I just gotta a feeling the 12 issues will work better when collected in one volume.
That's it for now.
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Post by darklordbob on Feb 1, 2020 8:14:19 GMT -5
When and if the SSOC comes back it should be something similar to the DC Black Label series - just imagine seeing a deluxe issue of SSOC on the shelves alongside the DC Black Label books at your local comic book store. I mean that was the whole point of SSoC back at its inception: a version that could push the subject matter and its depictions thereof further than the mainline series. Right now I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between the new Savage Sword of Conan and the new Conan the Barbarian comics. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 8:31:57 GMT -5
When and if the SSOC comes back it should be something similar to the DC Black Label series - just imagine seeing a deluxe issue of SSOC on the shelves alongside the DC Black Label books at your local comic book store. I mean that was the whole point of SSoC back at its inception: a version that could push the subject matter and its depictions thereof further than the mainline series. Right now I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between the new Savage Sword of Conan and the new Conan the Barbarian comics. Yeah, SSOC should really stand out on the shelves. I think they really missed an opportunity with the DC Black Label stuff on display at the same time. Comic shops don't usually bother displaying large format books or magazines with the rest of the monthly comics. DC Black Label has changed that - they are allocated where the customer can see them for now. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 9:02:35 GMT -5
I mean that was the whole point of SSoC back at its inception: a version that could push the subject matter and its depictions thereof further than the mainline series. Right now I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between the new Savage Sword of Conan and the new Conan the Barbarian comics. Yeah, SSOC should really stand out on the shelves. I think they really missed an opportunity with the DC Black Label stuff on display at the same time. Comic shops don't usually bother displaying large format books or magazines with the rest of the monthly comics. DC Black Label has changed that - they are allocated where the customer can see them for now. The old SSoC was also so they didn't have to follow the comics code and could do more mature stories and violence. Is that the case with the DC black label, or does it still have to abide by the comics code in regards to subject matter? |
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Post by wolfshead on Feb 1, 2020 9:31:04 GMT -5
My great disappointment was Aaron's ignoring the rich tapestry that made RT's work so memorable. Certainly there was enough substance there that Aaron could have done the same stories (for better or worse) within the established Marvel history. Why else look forward to Marvel's reacquisition but for that reason. If not, any publisher would do. Particularly galling was the meeting Aaron had Conan have with Yezdigerd lauding Conan's leadership skills. How much more interesting was RT's take on it. A lifelong vendetta by Yezdigerd for Conan's scarring him. How many more interesting stories could have been worked with that conflict? How much more real were the two characters presented? Truly, a tremendous opportunity, one of many, squandered.
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 1, 2020 9:43:49 GMT -5
My great disappointment was Aaron's ignoring the rich tapestry that made RT's work so memorable. Certainly there was enough substance there that Aaron could have done the same stories (for better or worse) within the established Marvel history. Why else look forward to Marvel's reacquisition but for that reason. If not, any publisher would do. Particularly galling was the meeting Aaron had Conan have with Yezdigerd lauding Conan's leadership skills. How much more interesting was RT's take on it. A lifelong vendetta by Yezdigerd for Conan's scarring him. How many more interesting stories could have been worked with that conflict? How much more real were the two characters presented? Truly, a tremendous opportunity, one of many, squandered. That’s it on a nutshell. While they didn’t have to try to make their new issues fit snuggly into the previous run, they could use it to fall back on and briefly use things (like the Yezdigerd scar) as a springboard to do their own stories. They didn’t seem to have anything compelling to use its place so why not utilize it. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 10:58:59 GMT -5
My great disappointment was Aaron's ignoring the rich tapestry that made RT's work so memorable. Certainly there was enough substance there that Aaron could have done the same stories (for better or worse) within the established Marvel history. Why else look forward to Marvel's reacquisition but for that reason. If not, any publisher would do. Particularly galling was the meeting Aaron had Conan have with Yezdigerd lauding Conan's leadership skills. How much more interesting was RT's take on it. A lifelong vendetta by Yezdigerd for Conan's scarring him. How many more interesting stories could have been worked with that conflict? How much more real were the two characters presented? Truly, a tremendous opportunity, one of many, squandered. That’s it on a nutshell. While they didn’t have to try to make their new issues fit snuggly into the previous run, they could use it to fall back on and briefly use things (like the Yezdigerd scar) as a springboard to do their own stories. They didn’t seem to have anything compelling to use its place so why not utilize it. Yeah, I agree. That issue by Jason Aaron with Yezdigerd did not add anything of significance to the story. He coulda avoided it and left the 'Scar' storyline intact by telling another story set during Conan's years as a mercenary of Turan. Yet, he did acknowledge the dreadful Belit: Age of Conan storyline in CtB 7. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 11:08:49 GMT -5
Yeah, SSOC should really stand out on the shelves. I think they really missed an opportunity with the DC Black Label stuff on display at the same time. Comic shops don't usually bother displaying large format books or magazines with the rest of the monthly comics. DC Black Label has changed that - they are allocated where the customer can see them for now. The old SSoC was also so they didn't have to follow the comics code and could do more mature stories and violence. Is that the case with the DC black label, or does it still have to abide by the comics code in regards to subject matter? Yeah, it is supposed to be the mature line of DC comics in a prestige format. Some of the old classics are now reprinted under the Black Label imprint like Watchmen, Frank Miller's Dark Knight Graphic Novels, Ronin and Darwyn Cooke's DC: The New Frontier. |
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Post by scottoden on Feb 1, 2020 11:47:56 GMT -5
I'm not a comics guy; I collected SSoC back in the day mainly for the REH adaptations. I've never read the classic CtB, and did not pick up the new version. I really prefer the old style SSoC, in b&w, with much finer art than the new version. I wish they'd bring that back. That said, the prose story in SSoC was *awesome*, amirite?  |
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Post by wolfshead on Feb 1, 2020 19:17:27 GMT -5
The nearest thing Marvel had to DC's Black Label were their 7 original graphic novels: Witch Queen of Acheron, Conan of the Isles, Conan the Reaver, C. the Rogue, Skull of Set, Ravagers Out of Time, and the Horn of Azoth. There was also a Kull GN: the Vale of Shadows. They were beautifully done by their best artists and writers, with no adds. Not cheap. In the mid 1980s, the went for nearly $9
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