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Post by johnnypt on Nov 24, 2020 11:18:27 GMT -5
Conan the Destroyer gets my worst sequel to a great movie award. For me, Ctd lost that savage feel that was present in the original Conan the Barbarian film. A Conan movie needs to feel and look like a Conan movie, at least in spirit, even if it's not true to Howard, the sex, violence and nihilistic world view is a part of that package, take that away and you end up with a mediocre travel adventure fantasy flick for general family viewing, reminiscent of Willow. You end up with this. Now that was a terrible nod to the ape like Thak from 'Rogues in the House'. When you look at it, how different is that from any of the CtB imitators? It's as almost cheaply done as Ator (almost that is) and like you said, doesn't capture what made the 1982 unique and successful. Arnold's last really successful year at the box office was 1994 (True Lies and Junior). After this his clout began to drop, so a Conan film post '94 probably wouldn't have the same cache. Though it might have been a better idea to do Conan the Conqueror instead of Batman & Robin...just barely...
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Post by almuric on Nov 24, 2020 12:54:20 GMT -5
The funniest part of Conan the Destroyer is that Mako's magic seems to work purely by hand gestures and strange mouth noises.
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Post by kemp on Nov 25, 2020 0:34:59 GMT -5
When you look at it, how different is that from any of the CtB imitators? It's as almost cheaply done as Ator (almost that is) and like you said, doesn't capture what made the 1982 unique and successful. Arnold's last really successful year at the box office was 1994 (True Lies and Junior). After this his clout began to drop, so a Conan film post '94 probably wouldn't have the same cache. Though it might have been a better idea to do Conan the Conqueror instead of Batman & Robin...just barely... Probably not that different, but even CtB imitators such as the first Beastmaster movie and The Sword and the Sorcerer seemed to be one notch up on CtD.
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Post by almuric on Nov 25, 2020 9:12:51 GMT -5
When you look at it, how different is that from any of the CtB imitators? It's as almost cheaply done as Ator (almost that is) and like you said, doesn't capture what made the 1982 unique and successful. Arnold's last really successful year at the box office was 1994 (True Lies and Junior). After this his clout began to drop, so a Conan film post '94 probably wouldn't have the same cache. Though it might have been a better idea to do Conan the Conqueror instead of Batman & Robin...just barely... Probably not that different, but even CtB imitators such as the first Beastmaster movie and The Sword and the Sorcerer seemed to be one notch up on CtD.
Don't let Coscarelli hear you call The Beastmaster a Conan the Barbarian ripoff. In his autobiography he complains about this particular myth points out that his movie was already being made before CTB's release.
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Post by johnnypt on Nov 25, 2020 9:28:47 GMT -5
Probably not that different, but even CtB imitators such as the first Beastmaster movie and The Sword and the Sorcerer seemed to be one notch up on CtD.
Don't let Coscarelli hear you call The Beastmaster a Conan the Barbarian ripoff. In his autobiography he complains about this particular myth points out that his movie was already being made before CTB's release.
True, Conan came out in May and Beastmaster was in August, so it was a happy coincidence that it was able to catch the wave a bit rather than being a ripoff/imitator. And it definitely had better production values than CtD. Through the Portal of Time...well...and what is it with Sarah Douglas and sequels: People That Time Forgot, CtD, Beastmaster 2. Heck if not for a few minutes in the first film, you could Superman II in there too.
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Post by themirrorthief on Nov 25, 2020 13:22:47 GMT -5
when i first watched Destroyer way back when, I really liked it but it dosnt appear to have held up well down through the eons
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Post by kemp on Nov 26, 2020 8:51:14 GMT -5
Probably not that different, but even CtB imitators such as the first Beastmaster movie and The Sword and the Sorcerer seemed to be one notch up on CtD.
Don't let Coscarelli hear you call The Beastmaster a Conan the Barbarian ripoff. In his autobiography he complains about this particular myth points out that his movie was already being made before CTB's release.
I have a copy of Beastmaster on dvd from years back, perhaps calling it a CtB imitator was not the right choice of words, it's still one of my favourite 80's fantasy flicks along with Hawk the Slayer, although the Beastmaster sequels are best forgotten, probably like recommending Highlander with Christopher Lambert, but telling people to avoid the disasters that came afterwards. Same with Deathstalker. The Big List of 1980s Barbarian & Fantasy Movies fireinthejungle.wordpress.com/2011/12/23/the-big-list-of-1980s-barbarian-fantasy-movies/The failure of Conan the Destroyer probably helped to kill off any plans for a Conan the Conqueror in the late 80's, although a number of reasons played into that, Arnie's other film commitments at the time certainly being one significant factor.
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Post by almuric on Nov 26, 2020 11:56:37 GMT -5
The drop in quality between Barbarian and Destroyer is shockingly noticeable if you watch them in close proximity. It feels more like a third or fourth sequel than the first. And it's really too bad. Arnie gives a much more assured performance in Destroyer and the cast and production values (rubbery monsters aside) are decent. But the script is barely a cut above the Clonans and that just sinks it.
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Post by danieljames495 on Nov 26, 2020 18:18:00 GMT -5
The drop in quality between Barbarian and Destroyer is shockingly noticeable if you watch them in close proximity. It feels more like a third or fourth sequel than the first. And it's really too bad. Arnie gives a much more assured performance in Destroyer and the cast and production values (rubbery monsters aside) are decent. But the script is barely a cut above the Clonans and that just sinks it. I've heard the same review for the Momoa Movie. It was great performance on his part but poor scripting.
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Post by theironshadow on Nov 27, 2020 7:38:31 GMT -5
The drop in quality between Barbarian and Destroyer is shockingly noticeable if you watch them in close proximity. It feels more like a third or fourth sequel than the first. And it's really too bad. Arnie gives a much more assured performance in Destroyer and the cast and production values (rubbery monsters aside) are decent. But the script is barely a cut above the Clonans and that just sinks it. I've heard the same review for the Momoa Movie. It was great performance on his part but poor scripting. For Conan 2011, the issue was that Millenium had a $1m fee to pay if they didn't get the film into production by March, at which point, the script wasn't finished. Sean Hood was doing rewrites whilst they were filming. If Malmberg could have given Millennium breathing space of a couple of months, the final film could have been much better. As for CtD, it was trying to bandwagon on the more family friendly tone of Star Wars, Indiana Jones and other adventure films of the time.
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Post by kemp on Nov 28, 2020 5:29:08 GMT -5
In some ways Tracy Walter as Malak was a replacement for Subotai from the original (played by Gerry Lopez ). In all honesty Malak was not a bad attempt at the classical 'comic relief', although Subotai was never that in CtB.
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Post by BlackHeart on Nov 28, 2020 8:42:45 GMT -5
In some ways Tracy Walter as Malak was a replacement for Subotai from the original (played by Gerry Lopez ). In all honesty Malak was not a bad attempt at the classical 'comic relief', although Subotai was never that in CtB. Never should've happend that way. Though, I doubt that a lot of CtB fans would love what would happend if the movie was filmed by the original script. Subotai would be hanged in first five minutes, and Conan would've seen his corpse again before the final battle. I never understand what studio or Dino had against Gerry Lopez. Was it cause he's a friend od Jonh Millius? If that be the case, it was f*cking unprofesional of them. Even tho Destroyer have solid part of good and injoyable moments, battles are great and Conan him self is less wooden and more natural and athletic, they killed the franchise with decisions they made.
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Post by kemp on Nov 28, 2020 17:16:12 GMT -5
Never should've happend that way. Though, I doubt that a lot of CtB fans would love what would happend if the movie was filmed by the original script. Subotai would be hanged in first five minutes, and Conan would've seen his corpse again before the final battle. I never understand what studio or Dino had against Gerry Lopez. Was it cause he's a friend od Jonh Millius? If that be the case, it was f*cking unprofesional of them. Even tho Destroyer have solid part of good and injoyable moments, battles are great and Conan him self is less wooden and more natural and athletic, they killed the franchise with decisions they made. True, Dino De Laurentiis had a lot to do with that decision. One of the early drafts for CtD included Subotai being brought back and killed off part way during the movie, but De Laurentiis rejected the idea. They floated the idea of having Danny De Vito play Malak on one point. www.agonybooth.com/conan-the-destroyer-1984-a-recap-part-1-of-6-74259Of course De Vito and Arnie have been paired in a few movies, comedy. CtD could have been worse
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Post by BlackHeart on Nov 29, 2020 7:06:18 GMT -5
Damn, man I love this guy Had a few good laughs by reading his article. Its fantastic! Well, I definately stand adamant with opinion that Hollyweird lost much with constant pg ratings and studio interferences in other people work. I mean, they had Thomas and Conway - two masters of comic and great Conan writers (I'll add Dixon as my third favorite beside them) - had a pretty good script in their hands - a posible masterpiece with a little extra budget and serious leader of the project (I know Dino is dead, but F#CK him) and they managed to screew everything up. And, De Vito in Conan movie!?! HELL NO!!! To be honest, I loved Arnold in the role. I tought that with a right direction he could pull of another few Conan flicks (and I wish he did, cause, that era had a certain flawor in its movies that lacks nowadays), based on comics or Howard's original, and I've no doubt he could do it if he had a chance. Millius has made Conan the Ubermench, and you can actualy see in CtD that he was more Howardian than in first movie. Imagine that they stayed with original script; only thing I didnt like in it was child sorcerer Rammon (wich I think is rewriten into prince Tarn for Red Sonja later - idea of a kid character I mean), and that it didnt had "Akiro" in it. Yes, I like Mako's character a lot. In this Conan version, things wouldnt be the same without him, after first movie made clear that he's Conan's chronicler and all. But, idea was great. If we couldnt have one of Howard's yarns adapted into a script, this was a right substitution for one. I dont have much love for "saving the world" idea in novels of movies, but, this wasnt classic story about it. Definitely, coul've been epic flick in the end.
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Post by kemp on Nov 29, 2020 8:18:47 GMT -5
Damn, man I love this guy Had a few good laughs by reading his article. Its fantastic! Well, I definately stand adamant with opinion that Hollyweird lost much with constant pg ratings and studio interferences in other people work. I mean, they had Thomas and Conway - two masters of comic and great Conan writers (I'll add Dixon as my third favorite beside them) - had a pretty good script in their hands - a posible masterpiece with a little extra budget and serious leader of the project (I know Dino is dead, but F#CK him) and they managed to screew everything up. And, De Vito in Conan movie!?! HELL NO!!! To be honest, I loved Arnold in the role. I tought that with a right direction he could pull of another few Conan flicks (and I wish he did, cause, that era had a certain flawor in its movies that lacks nowadays), based on comics or Howard's original, and I've no doubt he could do it if he had a chance. Millius has made Conan the Ubermench, and you can actualy see in CtD that he was more Howardian than in first movie. Imagine that they stayed with original script; only thing I didnt like in it was child sorcerer Rammon (wich I think is rewriten into prince Tarn for Red Sonja later - idea of a kid character I mean), and that it didnt had "Akiro" in it. Yes, I like Mako's character a lot. In this Conan version, things wouldnt be the same without him, after first movie made clear that he's Conan's chronicler and all. But, idea was great. If we couldnt have one of Howard's yarns adapted into a script, this was a right substitution for one. I dont have much love for "saving the world" idea in novels of movies, but, this wasnt classic story about it. Definitely, coul've been epic flick in the end. Definitely a humorous take down of CtD If you picked apart the movie you could find some moments that stood out in an otherwise mediocre fantasy film. I myself thought that the wooly mammoth skeleton in the desert scene was a nice touch. The PG rating should have been a warning, not that I picked it up as a kid mind you, like many, I thought the film would be cool. With a bigger budget, an Arnie settled into the role, it might have been something good if they weren't trying to cash in on the large paying general audience thing, and instead went with the spirit of the first movie, but alas no. Yes, a missed opportunity. As bad as it was, we might as well forget about anything even close to that in Woke infested Hollywood these days. An international production, independent studios with decent budgets, sponsors and adequate crowd funding....maybe.
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