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Post by Louis_Ellenwood_Barlowe on Jul 28, 2020 10:34:38 GMT -5
Is writing a story 'in the style of' or 'after the manner of' the great pulp fiction era authors (generally but not specifically copying one or more authors) considered fan fiction, or a completely original creation?
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Post by linefacedscrivener on Jul 28, 2020 13:00:14 GMT -5
Is writing a story 'in the style of' or 'after the manner of' the great pulp fiction era authors (generally but not specifically copying one or more authors) considered fan fiction, or a completely original creation? Interesting question. I have been reading quite a bit on this very topic in a number of different places recently. There seems to be a lot of different thoughts on this. The gist I get, and this is just my read on it, is that fan fiction is when you write a story using someone else's character. So, writing your own story of Conan, Kull, or Bran Mak Morn would be fan fiction. I have also seen it stated that this is also when you publish the story online, for friends, etc. --basically for free. Writing a pastiche, is writing in the style of someone else, so that it is not necessarily in your own personal writing style. However, some things I have read say that writing in your own style but using someone else's character is also writing pastiche (like man of the Conan novels), though here the difference seems to be it is in a professional publication (e.g., The Tor novels). I think the definitions for these two terms are a lot like trying to define sword and sorcery and heroic fantasy. I have seen a great many definitions, but the only thing clear is that there seems to be no consensus on the terms. Here is what the Conan Wiki has to say: conan.fandom.com/wiki/Pastiches
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Post by Louis_Ellenwood_Barlowe on Jul 28, 2020 19:11:42 GMT -5
I guess I agree with the notion that fan fiction is based on a 'non-original' character, in other words, somebody else's creation is the protagonist of the tale. I also like the notion of pastiches. I guess many writers, at one time or another, have tried to write in the style of a favorite author, maybe before finding their own voice.
But what about professional authors who are licensed to write tales about Conan or whatever: Is that fan fiction? If so, it seems to cost a lot more than it should. On Kindle, you can get original works of dozens of pulp fiction authors for not that much money, but Conan stories by Lin Carter, L. Sprague de Camp and Bjorn Nyberg can cost 10 times as much. So, what's THAT stuff called?
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Post by Jason Aiken on Jul 28, 2020 19:56:18 GMT -5
Fan fiction = People writing fiction about characters they don't own without getting paid for it.
Pastiche = People getting paid to write characters they don't own. Otherwise known as work for hire.
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Post by themirrorthief on Jul 28, 2020 20:34:10 GMT -5
I used to write fan fiction...I did it mostly for the love of the characters and stories that I had read and admired tremendously...original stuff is still fan fiction cause you dont get paid a cent
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Post by thedarkman on Jul 28, 2020 23:43:04 GMT -5
Pastiche can also be professional writers creating a character very much like a popular original character, and writing original stories about that character in a similar style; Solar Pons/Sherlock Holmes, or Doc Caliban/Doc Savage.
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Post by scottoden on Jul 28, 2020 23:50:50 GMT -5
Pastiche can also be professional writers creating a character very much like a popular original character, and writing original stories about that character in a similar style; Solar Pons/Sherlock Holmes, or Doc Caliban/Doc Savage. That's homage rather than pastiche
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Post by themirrorthief on Jul 29, 2020 0:20:36 GMT -5
lots of homage in the writing world
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Post by thedarkman on Jul 29, 2020 1:45:14 GMT -5
Pastiche can also be professional writers creating a character very much like a popular original character, and writing original stories about that character in a similar style; Solar Pons/Sherlock Holmes, or Doc Caliban/Doc Savage. That's homage rather than pastiche I might be mistaken, but I’m sure I’ve seen referred to as both, but homage certainly seems like the better term.
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Post by robp on Jul 29, 2020 12:07:30 GMT -5
Pastiche can also be professional writers creating a character very much like a popular original character, and writing original stories about that character in a similar style; Solar Pons/Sherlock Holmes, or Doc Caliban/Doc Savage. That's homage rather than pastiche I'd agree. I consider some of my own work homage, in that it uses my own characters but is very much an attempt to write in a Howardian mode
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Post by thedarkman on Jul 29, 2020 12:25:38 GMT -5
robp; my own writing is certainly homage, as I have a S&S character of my own creation set in a world not too different from our own historical past, and a I make a conscious effort to write in the style of Howard. I try to mix in elements/styling licks of other authors, but find myself inevitably drawn back into Howard’s headlong, action oriented style. What I have difficulty replicating is his astonishing ability to create vivid, detailed scenes with only a few words...
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Post by Char-Vell on Jul 29, 2020 15:59:01 GMT -5
I like to think my writing is to Howard's as Galaxy of Terror is to 2001: A Space Odyssey.
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Post by linefacedscrivener on Jul 29, 2020 17:40:03 GMT -5
Great thread! Thanks for asking the question Louis.
Okay, so I have a question and it will be interesting to see the responses.
First, I have to give a little background. T.S. Eliot is one of my favorite poets. His signature poem (unless you're a "Cats" fan) is The Waste Land. When it came out, no one doubted that Eliot had created something entirely new. However, he did so by drawing upon the writing of past poets, providing hundreds of allusions and quotations from other texts. His famous opening line "April is the cruelest month" was an allusion to Chaucer's Canterbury Tales.
Now, Eliot said he was paying homage (like has been mentioned in this thread) to past authors, drawing upon the old to create something new. It was a way of honoring the great poets (and some not so great), by blending them into an entirely new, and incredibly fascinating poem. While The Waste Land reads well on its own, it is equally interesting to read an annotated version to trace how he created the poem.
Is Eliot's style about homage, tradition, and honoring past poets? Or is it about plagiarism, stealing the words of others, their voice, and their style, thus making it dishonorable?
So, if someone used Howard's words to create something new, would that be acceptable?
[this discounts the issue of copyright, which, as long as someone used his published tales from the 1920s and 1930s it would be legally okay]
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Post by linefacedscrivener on Aug 2, 2020 10:17:44 GMT -5
In looking over some of the various threads, I came across this one regarding a new book "Song of Belit." swordsofreh.proboards.com/thread/1254/song-belit-rodolfo-martinezThis is exactly an example of what I was asking. Apparently the author took "Queen of the Black Coast" and divided it up, making it the first and last chapters of the book, then filled in the story of Conan and Belit using the hints provided by Howard in "Hour of the Dragon." He has taken Howard's writing, incorporated into his book, and made something new out of something old. Not sure how well he did, but I'll find out when my copy arrives in the mail.
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Post by Louis_Ellenwood_Barlowe on Aug 3, 2020 9:41:49 GMT -5
Lots of great replies.
So, here's what fan fiction is to me, IMHO: Fan fiction is, as others have said, writing about a set of characters and/or a story not created by (you), because you are a fan of that work, and sometimes, because you'd like to see more of it, with your particular spin on or addition to it.
It's not fan fiction (again, IMHO) if you are writing in any genre (pulp fiction or whatever) or any style, simply because its also YOUR style or preferred genre, or because you just like that particular period of literature. And here's the kicker: Whether the author is paid or not doesn't really determine if its fan fiction, it 'just' fiction. (If they author gets paid later, is it STILL fan fiction. Gone With The Wind stayed unread in the authors dresser drawer until it was found, read, and later turned into a movie. Was it fan fiction because of the genre, and the fact that she wasn't paid for such a long time?)
If fan fiction is writing without being paid, then probably most writing past or present would fall into that category. As a matter of fact, most of our historically prominent authors (like Twain, and Poe, and others) self-published, meaning that at one time they wrote without being paid, simply because they believed enough in their own work to pay to publish it, regardless of whether or not they were paid, or even being read at one time or another in their careers.
To sum up: (Original) writing is just writing because we have a story to tell. Fan fiction writing is because we want to add to or embellish a story someone else has already told.
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