|
|
Post by theironshadow on Aug 20, 2020 5:27:35 GMT -5
What about the concept of Firearms in the Hyborian age? I tried to find an image of a slaver pirate character in issue 1 of Savage Sword who is adorned with a flintlock pistol, though having not read the issue, i'm not sure if it was used in any way. There's also a great article here that talks about the subject. Definitely worth reading... www.starshipsandsteel.com/2019/02/firearms-in-hyborian-age-and-some-2d20.html |
|
|
|
Post by zarono on Aug 22, 2020 7:14:05 GMT -5
What about the concept of Firearms in the Hyborian age? I tried to find an image of a slaver pirate character in issue 1 of Savage Sword who is adorned with a flintlock pistol, though having not read the issue, i'm not sure if it was used in any way. There's also a great article here that talks about the subject. Definitely worth reading... www.starshipsandsteel.com/2019/02/firearms-in-hyborian-age-and-some-2d20.htmlI think there's gunpowder in the Hyborian Age and perhaps fairly commonly used for nautical signal purposes, Conan mentions a signal rocket in the Black Stranger and isn't surprised by it in the least: "Look! There goes a rocket from the Red Hand! That means they're coming to take us off!'" But even so, no firearm or cannon technology has been widely developed yet (sorcerers and alchemists may have though). If it had been I don't think the picts and northern barbarians would have destroyed Hyborian civilizations, unless they had the gotten hold of the tech themselves (read "The Hyborian Age" and see what happens when the Picts get Hyborian weapon tech). |
|
|
|
Post by theironshadow on Aug 22, 2020 15:40:42 GMT -5
I'm not sure what it is, but the idea of gunpowder-based technology and weapons is something that just doesn't fit my world-view of the Hyborian age. Be it seafaring, architecture, or weapon-based by the end of the Roman empire, i don't think it should be featured in Conan's world. Stuff bordering the 16th century is just out of place in my opinion...
|
|
|
|
Post by zarono on Aug 23, 2020 7:59:35 GMT -5
I'm not sure what it is, but the idea of gunpowder-based technology and weapons is something that just doesn't fit my world-view of the Hyborian age. Be it seafaring, architecture, or weapon-based by the end of the Roman empire, i don't think it should be featured in Conan's world. Stuff bordering the 16th century is just out of place in my opinion... I don't want to see any actual gunpowder weapons in Conan comics or new novels either, it sucks to think any schmuck could shoot Conan down with matchlock. I'm fine with the pirate garb in Black Stranger though and think it adds to the strangeness of the Hyborian Age and reminds the reader this is not a historical story but a story set in "an age undreamed of" (along with the really strange stuff like the city and wizard weapons in Red Nails for instance). |
|
|
|
Post by Char-Vell on Aug 23, 2020 11:20:28 GMT -5
If there were gunpowder weapons in the Hyborian Age, Conan would be packing one.
|
|
|
|
Post by theironshadow on Aug 23, 2020 16:53:24 GMT -5
If there were gunpowder weapons in the Hyborian Age, Conan would be packing one. Absolutely, but by the same token, this is the same kind of creative management that CPI should be tracking through all of the Conan media; the fact that Malmberg either allowed this to get to press or was never aware of it is rather suspect. |
|
|
|
Post by Jason Aiken on Aug 24, 2020 1:06:37 GMT -5
I don't know how much input or oversight CPI has with the Marvel stuff. From what I understand, once Company A spends money and licenses properties from Company B, Company B doesn't have a lot of say in how the characters are used after the contract is signed.
But count me in for not being a fan of gunpowder in the Hyborian Age. Certainly no firearms.
|
|
|
|
Post by danieljames495 on Sept 21, 2020 23:54:50 GMT -5
I'm not sure what it is, but the idea of gunpowder-based technology and weapons is something that just doesn't fit my world-view of the Hyborian age. Be it seafaring, architecture, or weapon-based by the end of the Roman empire, i don't think it should be featured in Conan's world. Stuff bordering the 16th century is just out of place in my opinion... The idea of gunpowder weapons in the Hyborian age is also doesn't sit well with me. Seeing the pistol in Savage sword #1 was somewhat disappointing. My thoughts as to why it was there was that Marvel wasn't giving Conan the respect and effort he deserves. I'm pretty sure the artist just drew a generic old-time looking pirate because that's his perception of the Hyborian age and the editors just skimmed through it and didn't care/notice. Of course one other reason that the pistol could have been there was that it was implemented as like an Easter egg or something like that but I'd really hope it was just a mistake because putting a pistol in a Conan comic 'for fun' is definitely not the approach long-time readers favor. Howard never mentioned a gun in the original stories and the first instance where Conan saw a pistol was in Savage sword issue #220 which was the crossover that Roy Thomas and Colin MacNeil did with Conan and Solomon Kane and needless to say, if any sort of firepower existed back in Conan's day, he'd at least be somewhat familiar with it.:   Now You're probably thinking that maybe Conan wasn't as exposed to all the weapons of his era at the time of his life that the story takes place but earlier in the story, he hurled spears and used a bow and arrow very comfortably. With regards to the Roy Thomas original run, he was never too comfortable with a bow and arrow for a good portion of his younger life (He often ridicules it and says steel is better). The point is, at this point in his life, Conan had been exposed to the diversity of weapons in his era and so if there was anything like a pistol he would definitely know/recognize it. I know there are countless instances of explosive objects from the Thomas stories and even in the Howard stories (Like exploding crystals, pearl like pellets and even explosive powder) but in all these instances, the attributed explosive qualities were all results of sorcery. |
|
|
|
Post by Spartan198 on Sept 28, 2020 18:04:25 GMT -5
I'm not sure what it is, but the idea of gunpowder-based technology and weapons is something that just doesn't fit my world-view of the Hyborian age. Be it seafaring, architecture, or weapon-based by the end of the Roman empire, i don't think it should be featured in Conan's world. Stuff bordering the 16th century is just out of place in my opinion... Yeah, same here. |
|
|
|
Post by Von K on Sept 28, 2020 19:58:38 GMT -5
I wonder if the rocket reference in Black Stranger is an unedited reference from (or intended for) the Vulmea version?
Would the Hyborian Age have very crude gunpowder technology limited mostly to Khitai, and elsewhere only used by certain types of sorceror like Nahtok? Similar in development to what existed in China in our world before the rise of Chinggis Kha Khan?
At any rate, the second cataclysm would likely have destroyed the Hyborian Age before gunpowder technology developed to any appreciable degree. Certainly no guns or cannons.
|
|
|
|
Post by kobeck on Sept 28, 2020 21:46:05 GMT -5
in the Hyborian age a man should be judged by the strength of his sword arm and how many swords will follow his into battle.
|
|
|
|
Post by mingerganthecat on Jun 22, 2022 11:41:37 GMT -5
What about the concept of Firearms in the Hyborian age? I tried to find an image of a slaver pirate character in issue 1 of Savage Sword who is adorned with a flintlock pistol, though having not read the issue, i'm not sure if it was used in any way. There's also a great article here that talks about the subject. Definitely worth reading... www.starshipsandsteel.com/2019/02/firearms-in-hyborian-age-and-some-2d20.htmlI think there's gunpowder in the Hyborian Age and perhaps fairly commonly used for nautical signal purposes, Conan mentions a signal rocket in the Black Stranger and isn't surprised by it in the least: "Look! There goes a rocket from the Red Hand! That means they're coming to take us off!'" But even so, no firearm or cannon technology has been widely developed yet (sorcerers and alchemists may have though). If it had been I don't think the picts and northern barbarians would have destroyed Hyborian civilizations, unless they had the gotten hold of the tech themselves (read "The Hyborian Age" and see what happens when the Picts get Hyborian weapon tech). Is it possible that reliable recipes for rocket candy (saltpeter+sugar) was discovered before gunpowder, and that's what's being used here? Ships in general are weird in Hyborian Age. You have mention of galleons and dromonds sitting side by side in the same harbor, when those two ship classes represent almost 500 years of technological distance. In Black Stranger though, it's quite obvious that the story was originally set in Colonial America, and a few things got miss when he rolled it back to middle ages. |
|
|
|
Post by mingerganthecat on Jun 22, 2022 11:50:55 GMT -5
in the Hyborian age a man should be judged by the strength of his sword arm and how many swords will follow his into battle. Funny thing is that in Middle Ages most men fought primarily with spears and lances, not swords. Heck, it was the pike square more than the man-portable firearm that signaled the end to medieval-style combat. Firearms wouldn't become the most common infantry arm in most armies until as late as 17th or early 18th century. |
|
|
|
Post by zarono on Jun 22, 2022 22:25:30 GMT -5
I think there's gunpowder in the Hyborian Age and perhaps fairly commonly used for nautical signal purposes, Conan mentions a signal rocket in the Black Stranger and isn't surprised by it in the least: "Look! There goes a rocket from the Red Hand! That means they're coming to take us off!'" But even so, no firearm or cannon technology has been widely developed yet (sorcerers and alchemists may have though). If it had been I don't think the picts and northern barbarians would have destroyed Hyborian civilizations, unless they had the gotten hold of the tech themselves (read "The Hyborian Age" and see what happens when the Picts get Hyborian weapon tech). Is it possible that reliable recipes for rocket candy (saltpeter+sugar) was discovered before gunpowder, and that's what's being used here? Ships in general are weird in Hyborian Age. You have mention of galleons and dromonds sitting side by side in the same harbor, when those two ship classes represent almost 500 years of technological distance. In Black Stranger though, it's quite obvious that the story was originally set in Colonial America, and a few things got miss when he rolled it back to middle ages. REH doesn't elaborate on it so you can use your imagination. Concerning the ships; the Hyborian Age is a fantasy setting so advances/changes don't have to follow in the same order of real world history so you have things that seem out of place. I think REH did this on purpose giving him the ability to add in pretty much anything that he thought would make the story interesting (also remember the Conan tales were primarily marketed to Weird Tales so there needed to be some weirdness). The Hyborian Age Aesir/Vanir are good example, they are inspired by real world vikings but I don't think there's any mention of them being seafaring peoples in REH's tales. To the best of my knowledge Black Stranger was originally written as a Conan tale then changed over to a Black Vulmea pirate story to sell in a different market. There's been much discussion of how Conan's pirate gear in the story seems out of place but I think REH knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote it that way. The Hyborian Age was a strange time with many surprises. |
|
|
|
Post by kemp on Jun 23, 2022 1:23:05 GMT -5
I remember discussions in the earlier forum days on whether certain Hyborian Age nations were more this time period or that time period, but REH just borrowed what he liked from different eras, a mishmash of historical time periods, albeit largely pre industrial. Dark Age Viking in the far north Nordheim, but without the seafaring, late medieval elements, city states, in the Hyborian nations, ancient Nile valley as in Stygia.
Polearms, especially spears, would have been prevalent in the middle ages due to being cheap and easier to manufacture than say other weapons such as swords, especially true for infantry. Tactical advantages too. In fantasy movies they frequently give the hero a sword cause it looks cool.
As pointed out firearms such as cannons and hanguns only became effective and dominated the battlefield well after the middle ages. I think the Ottomans used the arquebus long guns with some efficiency during the late 1400's, read that it almost had the same accuracy as the 17th century matchlock. I can see Conan using something like that, or a pirate flintlock pistol in some pastiche, nothing too contemporary though.
|
|
