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Post by kemp on Aug 31, 2023 17:50:51 GMT -5
Another solid instalment after CtB1. I really like the way they have handled the interaction between Brissa and Conan, and I don't mean just the sex. There is a distinction between the Picts, that is, true Picts associated with bloodlines that have existed from Brule to Bran Mak Morn, and those more debased and brutish savages that have taken the name of Picts. Conan's people have an animosity towards the latter which they collectively call 'Picts', the Hyborian age Picts that we are normally familiar with. However, Brissa belongs to a minority of the more noble Pictish clans from Conan's time, Conan can clearly see or feel there is a difference. The ancient Scottish people are descended from Gaels and the more ancient Picts of which Bran Mak Morn and Brissa are a part of, original native inhabitants of western Europe bordering the Atlantic Sea. I think this is a fantastic treatment, it gives respect to the great Pictish people, and I think Brissa would work in stand alone stories, maybe as a backup story in an issue of SSOC, set in the Pictish wilderness and the lands bordering the Bossonian Marches, Gunderland and Cimmeria. Thanks kemp. I've not read this one yet but I appreciate the details. Is some of that from Jeff's essay at the back of the issue?
It is, and agree with johnnypt in that it makes sense, I thought about Bran Mak Morn before reading Jeff's essay, but I can see why he would have included Brule in the same context.
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Post by jeffshanks on Sept 1, 2023 7:26:56 GMT -5
Hey guys! So now you see, Brissa is not your typical run of the mill Pict. Just to give a little backstory, Jim wanted the character to be from the line of "pure" Picts that Bran was descended from and I was asked to come up with a canon way to make that work as Howard never addressed where that pure line was during the Hyborian Age. That's where I came up with the idea of using the Ligureans/Socodangas from "Wolves."
Technically, Howard does not make them Picts. It's not really clear what their background is. He may have intended them to be Hyborians living like Picts, or perhaps Hyborian-Pict mixed ancestry. So I did something a little retconnish and suggested making the Socodangas the untainted, non-devolved Picts in order to explain where they were during the Hyborian Age.
On the name, "Wolves" exists as two drafts and in one they are called Socodangas and in the other, they are Ligureans. So Jim could have gone with either name. Personally, I would have preferred Socodanga, as the Ligureans are a historical people that lived in Italy, and Liguria is a region in Italy today. Jim preferred it though, but he changed it to "Gurians" to avoid the connection to the real life Ligureans. Easy enough to reconcile it in my head canon as Jim's "Gurians" being one of the tribes of the Socodanga people.
On the similarities with Tim's adaption of "Wolves," that's not a coincidence either, as I worked with Tim as well. But in both cases, I just offered suggestions and possibilities. Both Tim and Jim did their own thing and I'm a big fan of both!
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Post by Von K on Sept 1, 2023 14:53:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the clarification and extra details Jeff - great to get a glimpse of the behind the scenes creative process.
Between yourself, Tim and Jim I think the speculations you are working with are close to the sort of thing that REH might have come up with himself if he'd have had the time to expand that part of his material and a reliable market to sell it to.
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Post by Erik on Sept 1, 2023 15:01:13 GMT -5
Hey guys! So now you see, Brissa is not your typical run of the mill Pict. Just to give a little backstory, Jim wanted the character to be from the line of "pure" Picts that Bran was descended from and I was asked to come up with a canon way to make that work as Howard never addressed where that pure line was during the Hyborian Age. That's where I came up with the idea of using the Ligureans/Socodangas from "Wolves." This was a brilliant idea, actually, and it makes complete sense that not all of the Picts degenerated into the blood-thirsty brutes that they are in the Hyborian Age. Well done! I haven't been this impressed with a Conan comic in several years.
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Post by garbanzo on Sept 1, 2023 16:54:37 GMT -5
Thanks Jeff for that extra info, it's great context for this story. This attention to detail is yet another layer of goodness making this new run so awesome. The story, the writing, the art, the coloring, the lettering, the covers, the extras... There's so much to like!
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Post by kemp on Sept 1, 2023 17:24:34 GMT -5
I always imagined the Ligureans as some variant of the 'Cro Magnon' pre Indo European peoples, but I think working the concept into untainted Picts just kinda worked in the case of Brissa.
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Post by johnnypt on Sept 1, 2023 21:14:51 GMT -5
It’s working out great, Jeff! You guys just keep doing what you’re doing.
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Post by Peter on Sept 2, 2023 2:09:35 GMT -5
Having already read the FCBD #0 issue and #1, I can honestly say that I felt a little as I remember I did, whilst reading Marvels' monthly SSOC, and the coloured Conan back in the 70's & 80's. I am enjoying it immensely, and I wish Titan every success for the future of Conan and the other REH properties already planned (fingers crossed, Slomon Kane). Thank you Jeff for the update, and to all team for their efforts in bringing us more REH's characters to comics and prose. Looking forward to all of it, cheers.
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Post by hun on Sept 3, 2023 12:30:06 GMT -5
A review by Todd Luck:
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Post by hun on Sept 4, 2023 15:37:31 GMT -5
Hey guys! So now you see, Brissa is not your typical run of the mill Pict. Just to give a little backstory, Jim wanted the character to be from the line of "pure" Picts that Bran was descended from and I was asked to come up with a canon way to make that work as Howard never addressed where that pure line was during the Hyborian Age. That's where I came up with the idea of using the Ligureans/Socodangas from "Wolves." Technically, Howard does not make them Picts. It's not really clear what their background is. He may have intended them to be Hyborians living like Picts, or perhaps Hyborian-Pict mixed ancestry. So I did something a little retconnish and suggested making the Socodangas the untainted, non-devolved Picts in order to explain where they were during the Hyborian Age. On the name, "Wolves" exists as two drafts and in one they are called Socodangas and in the other, they are Ligureans. So Jim could have gone with either name. Personally, I would have preferred Socodanga, as the Ligureans are a historical people that lived in Italy, and Liguria is a region in Italy today. Jim preferred it though, but he changed it to "Gurians" to avoid the connection to the real life Ligureans. Easy enough to reconcile it in my head canon as Jim's "Gurians" being one of the tribes of the Socodanga people. On the similarities with Tim's adaption of "Wolves," that's not a coincidence either, as I worked with Tim as well. But in both cases, I just offered suggestions and possibilities. Both Tim and Jim did their own thing and I'm a big fan of both! I loved this issue, somehow even more than the last one! and thanks for the essays, it binds all the threads found in the comic together. I think it was wise of Jim Zub to keep away from the historical Ligurians, I checked 'em out on google and found out they are from a region in North-West Italy, roughly between Genoa and Monaco. I found, a slight problem, according to my Hunnic eyes/ears, I think, concerning the Gurians, the name of the pure Pictish tribe should be something phonetically like Gur. Gur appears to have a more Indo-Aryan flavour rather than a Pictish one. Then again my knowledge of the Pictish language is somewhat lacking. Jeff, I expect an essay at the end of every REH related comic published by Titan. THANKS
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Post by kemp on Sept 4, 2023 17:14:51 GMT -5
I think these days we have some creative licence, fact is that we get into a conundrum when we try to identify the language of the ancient Picts, and the Picts themselves, some hold that the Picts were a pre Celtic people of Britain that eventually adopted Celtic, or perhaps part of the wider Brittonic language family or even containing elements of Irish Gaelic.
Same with the Ligurians of northern italy, were they originally proto European or part of the Indo Europeans/Aryan family group, adopting Celtic later in their history....
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Post by jeffshanks on Sept 4, 2023 21:02:36 GMT -5
Jeff, I expect an essay at the end of every REH related comic published by Titan. THANKS You should write in to the letters column and tell them that! Lol So far though, that is the plan. I just turned in my essay for issue 4 as a matter of fact. And joking aside, I want you all to know how much I appreciate just the fact that you even read these essays. I know most people just skip over the back matter in comics. On Howard's Ligurians, maybe I'll start a thread in the appropriate section. I did a search and I didn't see much, but I thought Deuce I had had a pretty in-depth discussion about it years ago. Maybe it was on the old boards or in email. In any case, I do think he was trying to do something with them, as they are one of the few groups of people that are mentioned in his earliest world building document, the drafts to Men of the shadows that I published for the first time in Skelos 1.
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Post by Majere on Sept 4, 2023 21:23:06 GMT -5
I’m loving what Titan is doing with Conan. This is the best Conan has been in comic form since the glory days of Savage Sword.
The art is top shelf, the coloring is excellent, and Zub seems to be doing his best to honor REH with his writing.
I am so very thankful that, thus far, all involved have resisted the lure to desecrate the book with modern day politics. It’s killing the American comic book industry, and the early success of this book is a testament to how desperate readers are for good old-fashioned escapist fantasy. And for as long as the very talented crew on this book continue to stay this course, this old school DC fan will gladly say “make mine Titan.”
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Post by hun on Sept 9, 2023 3:53:02 GMT -5
2nd printing Conan the Barbarian #2 cover by Torre (from a panel in the comic):
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Post by terryallenuk on Sept 30, 2023 1:37:37 GMT -5
Anyone who's on Twitter/X Jim Zub has posted the original art v published version on his feed.
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