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Post by deuce on Jun 22, 2016 21:49:18 GMT -5
Here are some entries from The Bloody Crown of Conan (Del Rey):
The other was dressed like them in a white, girdled khalat and a flowing head-dress which, banded about the temples with a triple circlet of braided camel-hair, fell to his shoulders. But he was not a Shemite. The dusk was not so thick, nor Conan’s hawk-like sight so clouded that he could not perceive the man’s facial characteristics. He was as tall as Conan, though not so heavy-limbed. His shoulders were broad and his supple figure was hard as steel and whalebone. A short black beard did not altogether mask the aggressive jut of his lean jaw, and grey eyes cold and piercing as a sword gleamed from the shadow of the kafieh. Quieting his restless steed with a quick sure hand, this man spoke: “By Mitra, I should know this man!” (p254)
“There’s only one of your breed in these parts,” muttered Conan. “You are Olgerd Vladislav, the outlaw chief.” “Aye! And once a hetman of the kozaki of the Zaporoskan River, as you have guessed.” (p255)
It is rumored that he has become the right-hand man of Olgerd Vladislav, the kozak adventurer who wandered down from the northern steppes and made himself chief of a band of Zuagirs. (p258)
Baring his teeth in a snarl, Olgerd lifted his hand – then paused. There was something about the confidence in the Cimmerian’s dark face that shook him. His eyes began to burn like those of a wolf. “You scum of the western hills,” he muttered. “Have you dared seek to undermine my power?” “I didn’t have to,” answered Conan. “You lied when you said I had nothing to do with bringing in the new recruits. I had everything to do with it. They took your orders, but they fought for me. There is not room for two chiefs of the Zuagirs. They know I am the stronger man. I understand them better than you, and they, me; because I am a barbarian too.” (p266) |
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Post by bront on Sept 12, 2016 0:28:42 GMT -5
What the....., how can references to Olgerd Vladislav be ‘pertinent to the Hyperboreans’. Is this some Posters ‘gut feeling’ or ‘intuition’ at play here, a desire to try, unsuccessfully, to turn Hyperboreans into Russian Slavs.
Olgerd was not a Hyperborean or Hyborean for that matter. Where are the references that say that he was Hyperborean. C'mon, stick to the facts.
Olgerd was an easterner from the Zaporoskan River. I will include the reference that was ‘conveniently’ omitted in the post on page two of this thread as per Olgerd Vladislav.
‘A Witch Shall Be Born’
“IF I could come down of this bean I’d make a dying dog out of you, you Zaporoskan thief!’ he rasped through blackened lips.”
“Mitra, the knave knows me!’ exclaimed the other. “ How, knave, do you know me?’
“There’s only one of your breed in these parts,” muttered Conan. “You are Olgerd Vladislav, the outlaw chief.” “Aye! And once a hetman of the kozaki of the Zaporoskan River, as you have guessed.”
Conan did not refer to Olgerd as a Hyperborean at any point, not Olgerd the Hyperborean thief.
It was Olgerd the Zaporoskan thief. Get it right.
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Post by deuce on Sept 12, 2016 13:07:19 GMT -5
It was Olgerd the Zaporoskan thief. Get it right. Hey Bront! Been a long time. So, how do you define "Zaporoskan"? |
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Post by bront on Sept 12, 2016 18:01:09 GMT -5
Defined just like REH wrote, Zaporoskan, not Hyperborean. Simple.
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Post by deuce on Sept 12, 2016 20:51:24 GMT -5
Defined just like REH wrote, Zaporoskan, not Hyperborean. Simple. That's not a definition. What is a "Zaporoskan"? Is it someone from "Zaporoska"? |
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Post by bront on Sept 13, 2016 2:38:20 GMT -5
Haha, Deuce, you are a riot as always. Semantics  You really got stumped. I will give you a clue buddy, it sure aint Hyperborea. |
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Post by bront on Sept 13, 2016 2:52:30 GMT -5
Another clue, river north of Vendhya
Slavic sounding Olgerd from the Slavic sounding Zaporoska. REH is good enough for me on that one.
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Post by deuce on Sept 13, 2016 7:54:42 GMT -5
Another clue, river north of Vendhya Slavic sounding Olgerd from the Slavic sounding Zaporoska. REH is good enough for me on that one. REH is good enough for me, too.  So, Olgerd Vladislav is from/born and raised on the Zaporoska River, which is north of Vendhya, right? |
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Post by bront on Sept 14, 2016 5:45:50 GMT -5
Hello to you too Deuce, yeah, been a while, world is a big place online and offline, but I like some of the threads here, probably wouldn't have posted for some time, but this thread prompted me to add a few words.
As for your
'So, Olgerd Vladislav is from/born and raised on the Zaporoska River, which is north of Vendhya, right?'
You gotta be kidding me. What are you questioning. Either Olgerd was referred to as a Hyperborean or not, and REH never wrote that he was.
What's next, we make Olgerd a Hyperborean on maybe that in the infinite realms of 'possibility' that his great grandmother on his mother's side might have been a captured Hyperborean slave girl sold to a great chieftan of the Zaporoska River.
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Post by deuce on Sept 14, 2016 7:04:53 GMT -5
As for your 'So, Olgerd Vladislav is from/born and raised on the Zaporoska River, which is north of Vendhya, right?' You gotta be kidding me. What are you questioning. Either Olgerd was referred to as a Hyperborean or not, and REH never wrote that he was. What's next, we make Olgerd a Hyperborean on maybe that in the infinite realms of 'possibility' that his great grandmother on his mother's side might have been a captured Hyperborean slave girl sold to a great chieftan of the Zaporoska River. By your reasoning then, Conan was born and raised in the Barachan Isles. “Baracha, eh?” he sneered. “That’s where they raise dogs for men. We of the Fellowship spit
on ’em – like this!”
He spat in Conan’s face and snatched at his own sword.
The Barachan’s movement was too quick for the eye to follow. His [Conan's] sledge-like fist crunched
with a terrible impact against his tormenter’s jaw, and the Zingaran catapulted through the air
and fell in a crumpled heap by the rail.
It was not only
legitimate trade that flowed into Messantia; smugglers and buccaneers
played their part. All this Conan knew well, for had he not, in the
days of old when he was a Barachan pirate, sailed by night into the
harbor of Messantia to discharge strange cargoes? Maybe Conan's great grandmother was a Cimmerian. REH is good enough for me. |
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Post by bront on Sept 16, 2016 2:46:36 GMT -5
As for your 'So, Olgerd Vladislav is from/born and raised on the Zaporoska River, which is north of Vendhya, right?' You gotta be kidding me. What are you questioning. Either Olgerd was referred to as a Hyperborean or not, and REH never wrote that he was. What's next, we make Olgerd a Hyperborean on maybe that in the infinite realms of 'possibility' that his great grandmother on his mother's side might have been a captured Hyperborean slave girl sold to a great chieftan of the Zaporoska River. By your reasoning then, Conan was born and raised in the Barachan Isles. “Baracha, eh?” he sneered. “That’s where they raise dogs for men. We of the Fellowship spit
on ’em – like this!”
He spat in Conan’s face and snatched at his own sword.
The Barachan’s movement was too quick for the eye to follow. His [Conan's] sledge-like fist crunched
with a terrible impact against his tormenter’s jaw, and the Zingaran catapulted through the air
and fell in a crumpled heap by the rail.
It was not only
legitimate trade that flowed into Messantia; smugglers and buccaneers
played their part. All this Conan knew well, for had he not, in the
days of old when he was a Barachan pirate, sailed by night into the
harbor of Messantia to discharge strange cargoes? Maybe Conan's great grandmother was a Cimmerian. REH is good enough for me. I read an Everyman Encyclopedia from the 30's. Loved the history sections. On the origins of various European peoples it stated that the first Slavs lived somewhere in the river and marsh areas of the Ukraine, also an area stretching westward to the Carpathians. It is accepted. Olgered associated with the Zaporoska makes perfect sense. It is the only information afforded us. Speculating that 'olgered might have actually been a Hyperborean or Gunderman' or anything else for that matter makes no sense in this context. |
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Post by bront on Sept 16, 2016 2:47:22 GMT -5
Typo, meant 'Olgerd'  |
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Post by Von K on Sept 18, 2016 9:42:34 GMT -5
Imho, with a view to Deuce’s recent post on the ‘Russian’s in REH’s Fiction’ thread, it now seems to me even more likely that Olgerd Vladislav could well be a Hyperborean adventurer, one of those renegades REH mentioned, who went on to become a Kozak chief, then a chief of the Zuagir - after leaving Hyperborea.
I re-read the parts in aWSBB where Olgerd appears. Whilst REH makes no direct mention of him being a Hyperborean, maybe he just didn't mention his full history in aWSBB for reasons of narrative economy. Sometimes a writer will hold back certain worldbuilding details if they would disrupt the narrative flow for his general audience. He established enough background to solidly seat Olgerd in the tale, but I don’t think most of his readers would necessarily have appreciated too much back history on the character inserted into an action narrative, even though REH may have know those details as he wrote.
He once said to Novalyne: “Give readers a lot of action and explain only as much as you absolutely have to.” And: “the best backgound is just there.”
So the notion of Olgerd Vladislav as a renegade Hyperborean adventurer makes a whole lot of sense in light of Deuce’s recent comments in the Russia thread.
At the very least, in Olgerd we have a character that REH is drawing up along similar lines to the way he presented his Russian adventurers in El Borak tales.
Is there anything in earlier drafts which either supports, contradicts, or can clarify any points regarding Olgerd?
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Post by bront on Sept 20, 2016 6:18:56 GMT -5
I don't remember reading anything by REH that said that Olgerd was a 'Hyperborean adventurer'. Seems Zaporoska just aint good enough for some folks out there, oh well.
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Post by deuce on Sept 21, 2016 11:11:02 GMT -5
I don't remember reading anything by REH that said that Olgerd was a 'Hyperborean adventurer'. Seems Zaporoska just aint good enough for some folks out there, oh well. Crom! You nailed us like a boss on that one, bud. So, how do you see Olgerd's childhood there on the Zaporoska? Did he herd goats, maybe steal a few honeymelons (gettin' in some practise!)? Did he hear ancient legends of Kozaki greatness around the fireplace? Did he listen to the tales of Vendhyan traders from the south? Maybe Himelian boatmen bringing goods down the Zaporoska to the Vilayet Sea in the west told him some stories too? |
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You really got stumped. I will give you a clue buddy, it sure aint Hyperborea. 
