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Post by deepermagic on Feb 12, 2018 10:32:04 GMT -5
I just read this article and thought it more or less nailed the feeling I have with adapting Conan. This portion conveys not only what I love about both Tolkien and Howard, but it seems to me to be the key in why modern adaptations are doomed almost from the beginning: That last line, man. People who have the privilege to bring these worlds and characters to life (either in Middle-earth or in the Hyborian Age) ought to have this line seared into their brain and it should be the first thing they remember when they wake and the last thing they think of when they fall asleep while they take part in sharing and playing within these masterful creations.
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Post by almuric on Feb 26, 2018 18:08:22 GMT -5
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Post by andys on Mar 29, 2018 16:14:43 GMT -5
Interesting analysis (well, part 1 of 2) of how the Hobbit movies fell short:
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Post by deuce on Mar 30, 2018 19:59:38 GMT -5
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Post by finarvyn on Mar 31, 2018 8:44:18 GMT -5
Does anyone possess the Millennium edition (mentioned by Leo in the link above)? It sounds pretty cool and looks awesome. I really wanted to buy a copy, but it's hard for me to justify buying ANOTHER version of LotR.
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Post by Ningauble on Mar 31, 2018 15:45:19 GMT -5
Yeah, I have it. I recall that it introduced some typos not present in the edition I already had at the time (although I can't recall now what they were, but typos they undoubtedly were), but the big selling point for me was the CD of Tolkien himself reading excerpts from the book (and even singing Sam's song about the troll). He had a marvellous reading voice, and his renditions of Gollum and Treebeard are awesome.
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Post by andys on Apr 10, 2018 16:25:06 GMT -5
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Post by johnnypt on Apr 10, 2018 20:21:58 GMT -5
He couldn’t help himself, God bless him!
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Post by johnnypt on Apr 11, 2018 7:23:41 GMT -5
Happy to see this prediction of mine from last year was incorrect:
"Considering this is the best way Christopher felt he could approach the material to tell the story, it's unlikely something similar could be done for Fall of Gondolin. Literally the only known time JRRT told the full story was the Lost Tales version. It didn't even evolve much from there, other than the Unfinished Tales version of the early part of the story, he simply didn't go back to it apart from the summaries in the Sketch, Quenta Noldorinwa or Quenta Silmarillion. So it really looks like this is the end of the line."
Looks like there were more in the papers than we suspected. It's actually longer than Beren & Luthien and Children of Hurin. They will also be dealing substantially with Earendil, so that also adds to the length. Going to be interested in the preface to see if it's something along the lines of a Middle Earth Michael Corleone: "I wanted to get out, but they pulled me back in!". It had to have sat in the back of his mind that he got two of his dad's Three Great Tales of the First Age into people's hands, he can't NOT do the third.
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Post by deuce on Jun 23, 2018 9:34:34 GMT -5
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Post by johnnypt on Sept 5, 2018 11:25:06 GMT -5
Happy to see this prediction of mine from last year was incorrect: "Considering this is the best way Christopher felt he could approach the material to tell the story, it's unlikely something similar could be done for Fall of Gondolin. Literally the only known time JRRT told the full story was the Lost Tales version. It didn't even evolve much from there, other than the Unfinished Tales version of the early part of the story, he simply didn't go back to it apart from the summaries in the Sketch, Quenta Noldorinwa or Quenta Silmarillion. So it really looks like this is the end of the line." Looks like there were more in the papers than we suspected. It's actually longer than Beren & Luthien and Children of Hurin. They will also be dealing substantially with Earendil, so that also adds to the length. Going to be interested in the preface to see if it's something along the lines of a Middle Earth Michael Corleone: "I wanted to get out, but they pulled me back in!". It had to have sat in the back of his mind that he got two of his dad's Three Great Tales of the First Age into people's hands, he can't NOT do the third. So after over 100 years, the Fall of Gondolin is finally available on its own. I started reading it this week and it was a "I just had to do ONE more thing" situation. Christopher did something slightly different compared to B&L: instead of interspersing commentary along with each new version of the tale, he decided to present each version in order, then go back and talk about the changes. The first version from 1916 is quite extensive, around 70 pages with no chapter breaks, so you end up having to read it like John Galt's speech in Atlas Shrugged. His last work on it was also extensive, the one that ended up in Unfinished Tales that only got as far as Tuor reaching Gondolin. Since this was his first work in this world he was about to create, it doesn't feel like the other stories which already had that "Middle Earth" vibe even though it wouldn't be called that for several decades. The first version feels more like a derivative of Greco-Roman mythology than anything Nordic or Celtic, specifically Ulmo (as stand in for Poseidon) and his tie to Tuor and Gondolin (read Aeneas and Troy). Al Harron will be happy to see the first appearance of Glorfindal (well, A Glorfindal) in all its splendor. Then once he goes back to start revising it, it quickly slips right into the vast tapestry of the First Age. The other interesting thing is in a letter he sent in 1950, where JRRT notes that with LOTR he set out to write a sequel to the Hobbit, but ended up with a sequel to the Silmarillion instead! Those two stories were inextricably linked in his mind: The Saga of the Jewels and the Rings. If the TV show is looking for a place to develop, this might be an avenue to think about. There would have to be some tinkering around to tie things together a little more (for all the talk about the Silmarils, only one of the three really is ever in play). It's also a shame the Lost Road never really developed because the Second Age is woefully represented apart from Akallabeth and one of the Unfinished Tales. But overall, it's the final piece of a 100 year old puzzle finally put in place. Well done, CT.
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Post by deuce on Sept 9, 2018 13:22:11 GMT -5
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Post by deuce on Sept 10, 2018 0:14:43 GMT -5
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Post by deepermagic on Sept 10, 2018 9:48:33 GMT -5
I'm a fan of Shippey as well (even though I think he reads Tolkien wrong about Beowulf and a few other topics...but that's just quibbling with a brilliant man). I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on REH. How'd you find out he was a fan?
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Post by deuce on Sept 12, 2018 9:23:34 GMT -5
I'm a fan of Shippey as well (even though I think he reads Tolkien wrong about Beowulf and a few other topics...but that's just quibbling with a brilliant man). I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on REH. How'd you find out he was a fan? I, perhaps, overstated things for the sake of brevity. I have read at least a couple of statements over the years where Tom referred positively to Howard more or less in passing. While that doesn't necessarily make him a "fan" of some sort, that's the logical inference. We also have his work on Harrison's "Hammer and Cross" series, which is somewhere on the edges of the Howardian ballpark. I will state without hesitation that Shippey does NOT dislike Howard. Back about 10yrs ago, when Shippey was actively teaching at St. Louis University, it looked like I might be moving to StL. I fully intended to find some way to get in contact with him if I made the move. It didn't happen, but as it turns out, my niece now attends the university.
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