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Post by finarvyn on Dec 3, 2016 9:32:10 GMT -5
I had a thread like this on the old boards and thought it would be a good idea to recreate it here on the new boards. I'm sure that others contributed to this, but I didn't make notes about that. Here is what I have on my hard drive...
I've been trying to put together a timeline of Howard's characters, assuming that they all "lived" in the same world. I know that the "Hyborian Age" essay mentions some of this stuff and seem to recall reading somewhere that the actual span of time is often in debate. Here's what I have and hopefully better REH scholars can fill in some of the details....
I know that the Conan stories have reference to Atlantis, stories from various eras mention the Picts, and some of the modern-horror stories mention some of the ancient beings of the Lovecraft-style genre. Some characters such as Solomon Kane can be pinned down to fairly specific years, others like El Borak seem to be more vague. Pretty much everything I have read seems to imply that Howard had some of the same key themes (like ancient races hidden amongst us).
Here’s what I have so far:
Pre-Thurian Age = ?? BC
Spear and Fang
Thurian Age = 100,000 BC
Am-Ra of the Ta-an
Kull of Atlantis [1]
Hyborian Age = 50,000 BC - 20,000 BC
Conan of Cimmeria [2]
Age of the Roman Empire = 753 BC - 476 AD
Bran Mak Morn (Roman Empire, around 300 AD) [3] [4]
Dark Ages = 476 - 1000
Cormac Mac Art (contemporary with BMM?) [5]
Middle Ages = 1066 - 1485
Turlough Dubh O'Brien (1014) [6]
Cormac Fitzgeoffrey (probably the Third Crusade; so 1189-1192)
Renaissance = 1300 - 1650
Agnes de la Fere, AKA “Dark Agnes” (1518-1528) [7]
Sonya of Rogatino, AKA “Red Sonya” (1518-1528) [8]
Solomon Kane (I've seen timelines of 1550-1610; perhaps 1580-1610)
Age of Piracy = 1650 – 1726
Black Vulmea (“Swords of the Red Brotherhood” perhaps around 1620 to 1625) [9]
Black Vulmea (perhaps around 1665) [10]
American “Wild West” = 1850 - 1900
Breckinridge Elkins (perhaps around 1880)
Early 20th Century = 1900 - 1936
Frances Xavier Gordon, AKA "El Borak" (1885-1920) [11]
Sonora Kid (1885-1920) [12]
Steve Harrison (pulp detective; b.1890’s, adventures in 1920-36 ) [13]
Steve Costigan (sailor, perhaps around 1930)
NOTES:
[1] “Kings of the Night” places Kull in 100,000 BC.
[2] Accounts differ between 14,000 BC-10,000 BC and 50,000 BC-20,000 BC.
[3] Bran Mak Morn was around when the Roman Empire was still intact. “Kings of the Night” and “Worms of the Earth” depict the Picts battling against Roman invaders.
[4] There are references in the BMM yarns to "the Wall". Hadrian's Wall was finished in about 122AD. The "Synopsis" which gives Bran's period as being 296-300AD seems best.
[5] In the "Tigers of the Sea" fragment, Cormac says that, "Some eighty years ago the legions were withdrawn from Britain..." That places "Tigers" at around 490 AD, since Honorius recalled all the British legions in 411 AD.
[6] “The Grey God Passes” says that Turlough Dubh O'Brien was present at the Battle of Clontarf, which occurred on April 23, 1014.
[7] Françoise de Foix appears in "Blades for France", another Agnès story, and is mentioned as the mistress of the king. She was that from 1518 to 1528.
[8] Sonya was 20-30 years old at Vienna (1529).
[9] 1523 - Montezuma's treasures are captured by Giovani da Verrazano. 1527 - Spaniards claim to have hung de Varrazano, but they lied (according to the pirate Villiars). This was also the year that da Varrazano "sailed over the horizon and vanished from the knowledge of men." Then it is said: "That is the tale of the Treasure of da Varrazano, which men have sought in vain for nearly a century." This seems to place “Swords of the Red Brotherhood” closer to 1620 or 1625.
[10] All indications from Black Vulmea's Vengeance point to Terence being a boy during the Irish Rebellion of 1641.
[11] “Son of the White Wolf” is set in the summer of 1917.
[12] It looks like the latest possible period for Knife, Bullet and Noose would be the late 1870's. Gordon was still kickin' a$$ in 1917. So, without contrary evidence, I'd say that Allison was 10yrs older than Gordon.
[13] Rick Lai sets “Graveyard Rats” in 1926 and Harrison’s last adventure in 1938.
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Post by Von K on Dec 4, 2016 20:47:35 GMT -5
Here's a few more Finarvyn: Early 20th: 'the other' Steve Costigan (Skullface), Kirby O'Donnel (Swords of Sharazar etc), Conrad and Kirowan (occult detectives), James Allison (combined with and 'mid-age' Hunwulf and Njall)... Classical (Roman): Eithriall the Gaul (Two Against Tyre), Pyrrus the Argive... Wild West: Buckner J Grimes (Man Eating Jeopard etc), Pike Bearfield Renaissance: Gottfried von Kalmbach, Donald McDeesa... Age of Piracy: Helen Taveral (IoPD), Middle Ages: Red Cahal, John Norwald (all from Sowers of the Thunder), Cormac Fitzgeoffrey There's more here at Howard Works organised by genre: howardworks.com/subject.htmThat's probably not much help but at least should round out the periods list a little until an REH scholar can pin down some more specific dates. Keith Taylor has written some great article series on many of REH's characters with plenty of dates info over at TGR: www.rehtwogunraconteur.com/
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Post by finarvyn on Dec 5, 2016 6:32:29 GMT -5
Thanks! I'll try to get those entries put into my OP.
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Post by Von K on Dec 6, 2016 3:11:17 GMT -5
My reply was a bit hastily sketched out Finarvyn, some bits need checking. Pyrrus is in fact spelled Pyrrhas and is of the Babylonian period. I tend to lump Roman and Greek together as Classical, but House of Arabu, in which Pyrrhas appears is technicaly Ancient period.
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Post by deuce on Mar 10, 2017 2:23:02 GMT -5
I had a thread like this on the old boards and thought it would be a good idea to recreate it here on the new boards. I'm sure that others contributed to this, but I didn't make notes about that. Here is what I have on my hard drive...I've been trying to put together a timeline of Howard's characters, assuming that they all "lived" in the same world. I know that the "Hyborian Age" essay mentions some of this stuff and seem to recall reading somewhere that the actual span of time is often in debate. Here's what I have and hopefully better REH scholars can fill in some of the details.... Age of the Roman Empire = 753 BC - 476 AD Bran Mak Morn (Roman Empire, around 300 AD) [3] [4] NOTES:[1] “Kings of the Night” places Kull in 100,000 BC. [2] Accounts differ between 14,000 BC-10,000 BC and 50,000 BC-20,000 BC. [3] Bran Mak Morn was around when the Roman Empire was still intact. “Kings of the Night” and “Worms of the Earth” depict the Picts battling against Roman invaders. [4] There are references in the BMM yarns to "the Wall". Hadrian's Wall was finished in about 122AD. The "Synopsis" which gives Bran's period as being 296-300AD seems best. Hey Fin! Sorry it took so long to reply. Can't stay long this time, either, but I will return. I will say that the BMM "circa" date is all over the place in REH's writings. David Drake, a Romanophile who reads Latin, along with other, independent researchers have all nailed the stories down to the first decade of the 3rd century -- ie, 200-210AD. I'll also be posting REH's own timeline from 1931 at some point.
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Post by deuce on Jun 17, 2017 7:39:36 GMT -5
Hey Finarvyn! I can't seem to find my copy of REH's character "timeline". However, click in and freeze the video below at 22:00 and you can see the same thing. If you look above the short list, you can see The Footfalls Within listed as being during the "Middle Ages", while just below Solomon Kane is listed as flourishing around 1580. That's because the "Renaissance" really didn't exist to REH. He never used the term. We can also discuss the dating of Bran Mak Morn as well, if you'd like.
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Post by finarvyn on Jun 17, 2017 9:30:33 GMT -5
Glad to see that this thread is still alive. I love the concept of a "unified world" for REH and his writings.
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Post by keith on Oct 26, 2017 6:44:41 GMT -5
Here's a few more Finarvyn: Early 20th: 'the other' Steve Costigan (Skullface), Kirby O'Donnel (Swords of Sharazar etc), Conrad and Kirowan (occult detectives), James Allison (combined with and 'mid-age' Hunwulf and Njall)... Classical (Roman): Eithriall the Gaul (Two Against Tyre), Pyrrus the Argive... Wild West: Buckner J Grimes (Man Eating Jeopard etc), Pike Bearfield Renaissance: Gottfried von Kalmbach, Donald McDeesa... Age of Piracy: Helen Taveral (IoPD), Middle Ages: Red Cahal, John Norwald (all from Sowers of the Thunder), Cormac Fitzgeoffrey There's more here at Howard Works organised by genre: howardworks.com/subject.htmThat's probably not much help but at least should round out the periods list a little until an REH scholar can pin down some more specific dates. Keith Taylor has written some great article series on many of REH's characters with plenty of dates info over at TGR: www.rehtwogunraconteur.com/
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Post by keith on Oct 26, 2017 7:39:58 GMT -5
Thanks, Von K! I haven't tried to work out a timeline for Steve Allison, the Sonora Kid, but Rick Lai's THE LEGEND OF EL BORAK is well worth a read, and contains info and speculation about Allison. I like Lai's view that there were actually two Sonora Kids, father and son, with the same name, since chronological references in "Knife, Bullet and Noose" and "The Devil's Joker" preclude that Steve Allison's being the same Steve Allison who was Francis X. Gordon's partner on occasion. My guess (no more than that) would place Steve Allison Senior's birth in 1845. He apparently took herds up the Chisholm Trail in the 1870s. He must have gained the sobriquet The Sonora Kid in Mexico, since the town of Sonora in Texas, seat of Sutton County, was not founded until 1885. My guess (again) would be that Steve Allison Senior fought in the Civil War on the Confederate side and sloped down to Mexico when the war ended. He romantically fought on the losing side again, for Maximilian against Juarez, and tried to help Maximilian escape through enemy lines in May 1867. They were both captured, and Maximilian was executed by firing squad, but the Kid successfully broke jail and returned to Texas. He must have married at some point, otherwise there is no accounting for Steve Junior and his sister, unless they were bastards. For similar reasons to Rick Lai's, I've assumed there were a number of different Pathan warriors named Yar Ali (or Yar Ali Khan), including one who flourished in the early 19th century and was the loyal chief of Akbar Khan's bodyguard in the 1830s. I've supposed that he was the subject of REH's untitled verse which begins, "Now bright, now red, the sabers sped ... " as well as "The Tartar Raid" and "The Song of Yar Ali Khan." The burly Yar Ali Khan who acts as El Borak's sidekick on occasion, as in "Three-Bladed Doom" and "Sons of the Hawk" was possibly his grandson or grand-nephew. He may also have been the man who wounded Dr. Watson with a "jezail bullet" at Maiwand in 1880, when Yar Ali Khan would have been young -- I calculate in his early twenties. Steve Clarney's Afridi pal in "The Fire of Asshurbanipal" was most probably another Yar Ali yet, born around 1895. His father may have been a cousin of El Borak's friend Yar Ali Khan, if the name Yar Ali ran in the family.
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Post by keith on Oct 16, 2019 7:37:48 GMT -5
I notice it has been exactly two years since I posted the above. Being a bit obsessed with the possible timelines even of REH’s minor and one-off characters, maybe it’s appropriate to share my ideas about Steve Clarney and Yar Ali, the stars of “The Fire of Asshurbanipal”. I also have ideas about the chequered and nefarious career of Nureddin el Mekru, the villain, but I’ll stick to Steve for the present. 1898 - Born in Montana. His father, Bob Clarney, was a cowboy and cattle rancher, his mother a Scots-Canadian from Alberta named Dorcas MacAndrew. They had four children, two boys and two girls. Steve was named after his uncle, who had been one of Roosevelt’s Rough Riders and died at Kettle Hill. 1917 – Steve and his brother Pete left the family ranch to fight in the U.S. Expeditionary Force under Pershing. Their outfit was the 69th Infantry Regiment, temporarily re-designated the 165th during WWI. “On the Ourcq River (known to the Regiment as the "River O'Rourke"), the 69th put up what has been called one of the greatest fights of that terrible war when it forced a crossing without artillery support and, fighting alone on the enemy's side of the river, with its flanks unsupported, engaged a Prussian Guards Division and forced it to retire. It was an incredible feat of arms, but a mere incident in the chronicle of glory that is the saga of the Fighting 69th.” (Lt. Col. Kenneth H. Powers.) 1918 – Steve remained overseas, while Pete returned home. He went on a tear in Paris, made especially memorable by a can-can dancer named Lisette, originally from Auvergne. He met two Australians who had fought through the war with the Fourth Light Horse Brigade, and they stood Paris on its ear until their money ran out. The Australians headed for London; Steve made his way south to Marseilles and signed aboard a tramp steamer headed for the Levant. 1919-21 – Steve jumped ship in Benghazi after beating hell out of the captain. In Libya he fought for a few months on the side of the Tripolitanian Republic as it rebelled against Italian rule. Steve made an enemy of an Italian colonel named Enzo Tancredi before he left for the Levant. Then he raised hell in Egypt, Abyssinia and Somaliland for a while. It was in Somaliland that he first encountered Nureddin el Mekru. He correctly said later that Nureddin was “in the slave trade then,” but there was more to it than appeared, and more to the black man who escaped Nureddin’s slave caravan, though Clarney didn’t discover that until years later. 1922 - From Somaliland, Clarney sailed on a dhow to Aden and then to Goa in India. Misbehaving in that Portuguese possession, he was tossed into the chokey. After breaking jail, he entered British territory – the Rajput region – and travelled to Jaisalmer and Jodhpur, making a living through his knowledge of horses. Then he drifted north to Peshawar. There he met Yar Ali, an Afridi from the Khyber region, now an outcast from his clan (the Zakha Khel) whose own brothers had sworn to kill him. This Yar Ali was not the Yar Ali Khan who had been El Borak’s close comrade before the war, though they were related. The younger Yar Ali was 27 at this time, Clarney 24. If it arouses any interest, I may post my thoughts on what happened to the pair after that.
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Post by Von K on Oct 17, 2019 13:32:57 GMT -5
More great timeline stuff from you there Keith.
And that's still a cool avatar which Bux chose for you.
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Post by korak on Oct 25, 2019 14:01:27 GMT -5
I had a thread like this on the old boards and thought it would be a good idea to recreate it here on the new boards. I'm sure that others contributed to this, but I didn't make notes about that. Here is what I have on my hard drive...I've been trying to put together a timeline of Howard's characters, assuming that they all "lived" in the same world. I know that the "Hyborian Age" essay mentions some of this stuff and seem to recall reading somewhere that the actual span of time is often in debate. Here's what I have and hopefully better REH scholars can fill in some of the details.... I know that the Conan stories have reference to Atlantis, stories from various eras mention the Picts, and some of the modern-horror stories mention some of the ancient beings of the Lovecraft-style genre. Some characters such as Solomon Kane can be pinned down to fairly specific years, others like El Borak seem to be more vague. Pretty much everything I have read seems to imply that Howard had some of the same key themes (like ancient races hidden amongst us). Here’s what I have so far: Pre-Thurian Age = ?? BC Spear and Fang Thurian Age = 100,000 BC Am-Ra of the Ta-anKull of Atlantis [1] Hyborian Age = 50,000 BC - 20,000 BC Conan of Cimmeria [2] Age of the Roman Empire = 753 BC - 476 AD Bran Mak Morn (Roman Empire, around 300 AD) [3] [4] Dark Ages = 476 - 1000 Cormac Mac Art (contemporary with BMM?) [5] Middle Ages = 1066 - 1485 Turlough Dubh O'Brien (1014) [6] Cormac Fitzgeoffrey (probably the Third Crusade; so 1189-1192) Renaissance = 1300 - 1650 Agnes de la Fere, AKA “ Dark Agnes” (1518-1528) [7] Sonya of Rogatino, AKA “ Red Sonya” (1518-1528) [8] Solomon Kane (I've seen timelines of 1550-1610; perhaps 1580-1610) Age of Piracy = 1650 – 1726 Black Vulmea (“Swords of the Red Brotherhood” perhaps around 1620 to 1625) [9] Black Vulmea (perhaps around 1665) [10] American “Wild West” = 1850 - 1900 Breckinridge Elkins (perhaps around 1880) Early 20th Century = 1900 - 1936 Frances Xavier Gordon, AKA " El Borak" (1885-1920) [11] Sonora Kid (1885-1920) [12] Steve Harrison (pulp detective; b.1890’s, adventures in 1920-36 ) [13] Steve Costigan (sailor, perhaps around 1930) NOTES:[1] “Kings of the Night” places Kull in 100,000 BC. [2] Accounts differ between 14,000 BC-10,000 BC and 50,000 BC-20,000 BC. [3] Bran Mak Morn was around when the Roman Empire was still intact. “Kings of the Night” and “Worms of the Earth” depict the Picts battling against Roman invaders. [4] There are references in the BMM yarns to "the Wall". Hadrian's Wall was finished in about 122AD. The "Synopsis" which gives Bran's period as being 296-300AD seems best. [5] In the "Tigers of the Sea" fragment, Cormac says that, "Some eighty years ago the legions were withdrawn from Britain..." That places "Tigers" at around 490 AD, since Honorius recalled all the British legions in 411 AD. [6] “The Grey God Passes” says that Turlough Dubh O'Brien was present at the Battle of Clontarf, which occurred on April 23, 1014. [7] Françoise de Foix appears in "Blades for France", another Agnès story, and is mentioned as the mistress of the king. She was that from 1518 to 1528. [8] Sonya was 20-30 years old at Vienna (1529). [9] 1523 - Montezuma's treasures are captured by Giovani da Verrazano. 1527 - Spaniards claim to have hung de Varrazano, but they lied (according to the pirate Villiars). This was also the year that da Varrazano "sailed over the horizon and vanished from the knowledge of men." Then it is said: "That is the tale of the Treasure of da Varrazano, which men have sought in vain for nearly a century." This seems to place “Swords of the Red Brotherhood” closer to 1620 or 1625. [10] All indications from Black Vulmea's Vengeance point to Terence being a boy during the Irish Rebellion of 1641. [11] “Son of the White Wolf” is set in the summer of 1917. [12] It looks like the latest possible period for Knife, Bullet and Noose would be the late 1870's. Gordon was still kickin' a$$ in 1917. So, without contrary evidence, I'd say that Allison was 10yrs older than Gordon. [13] Rick Lai sets “Graveyard Rats” in 1926 and Harrison’s last adventure in 1938. where is El Borak
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Post by keith on Nov 6, 2019 5:13:12 GMT -5
More great timeline stuff from you there Keith. And that's still a cool avatar which Bux chose for you. Completely agree abut the avatar from Sorceress. And thanks for liking the timeline stuff.
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Post by keith on Jan 9, 2020 8:23:20 GMT -5
Back on October 16th last year, I posted some timeline detail (as I saw it) on Steve Clarney and Yar Ali, the two adventurers who feature in the story, "The Fire of Asshurbanipal." (There are two versions; I happen to like the one with the supernatural monster best.) As best I can figure, Steve Clarney's comrade is not the same Yar Ali Khan who appears as El Borak's grizzled offsider in other stories, but a younger relative.
He was born in 1895 near the Khyber Pass. His father, Afzal Rashid Khan, born in 1867, was a noted Afridi chief and a leader of the North West Frontier rising of 1897, when Yar Ali was two. Yar Ali’s mother was Sabohi. He had four brothers – Mabarak, Zaib, Ghafir and Badi -- and two sisters, Hafsah and Nahid. Hafsah was born in 1902. Yar Ali grew into a redoubtable warrior himself. A deadly shot with the Lee Enfield .303 or traditional jezail, he was good with a tulwar or Indian sabre, and an excellent rider even by Afridi standards. He rode and fought with Lawrence of Arabia during the First World War. He was acquainted with Francis X. Gordon at that time and later. His older relative and namesake, a cousin of his father’s, had been Gordon’s close companion in various adventures before the Great War, such as “Hawk of the Hills” and “Three-Bladed Doom”. By 1918, however, the older Yar Ali was sixty and afflicted with gout. The younger Afridi was a handsome, daring devil. He stood six foot three. He liked women, fine horses, poetry, adventure and – as a Khyber rascal in good standing – theft. But trouble came and it put him in a dreadful quandary. Yar Ali’s sister Hafsah was promised to a man she disliked, and “dishonoured” her family with a lover she preferred – a Hindu and a Rajput of Rajasthan in India. She ran away with him and married him in Peshawar. The punishment was death, and Yar Ali was sent to pursue and kill them. He regarded it as his family duty, but was torn in two over the terrible errand, since he was fond of Hafsah. In the end he couldn’t do it and helped the couple escape to safety in British India, to the man’s home in Jaisalmer. This led to Yar Ali’s being outlawed from his clan and tribe, disowned, and his brothers taking oaths to kill him. His own mother was the most frenzied in her fury, and in her determination to see Yar Ali, Hafsah and her Rajput husband dead. She was the sort of Afridi woman who castrated captured enemies or killed them by drowning them in urine. Hafsah’s elopement probably occurred in 1919.
Yar Ali had piercing, far-seeing eyes, an eagle nose and a fine black beard. He liked women, and it wasn’t unusual for women (including some white ones, even in the 1920s) to like him right back. A wild fellow with a restless, roving, nonconformist nature, it’s likely that he’d have found himself in trouble with his clan sooner or later, even if his sister’s romance hadn’t brought it about sooner. He took a sardonic, irreverent view of British rule, Russian Bolshevik dogma and the former Tsarist pretensions of the same nation, and even of his own people’s conventions. He possessed an almost psychic instinct for the presence of danger; he felt it looming. Nor had he ever been mistaken.
Yar Ali met Steve Clarney in Peshawar in 1922. The circumstances were obscure. However, they seem to have involved the first of the Conspiracy Cases, a dangerous Russian agent who had changed sides a number of times during the Russian Civil War of 1917-1920, and the Peshawar Museum (built 1906-1907 in Queen Victoria’s memory) as well as a ghost which some believed to have been that of Kanishka, greatest of the Kushan kings, who reigned in the second century A.D. and had his winter capital at Peshawar. The two swore blood brotherhood after that adventure, “on the hilt and the haft of the Khyber knife, and the wondrous names of God,” as Kipling said.
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Post by coinilius on Oct 15, 2020 2:12:18 GMT -5
This is a great thread - placing REH's characters/stories into a sort of chronological order is something that I have been interested in for a while now!
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