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Post by terryallenuk on Mar 3, 2019 16:48:22 GMT -5
My feeling is that ideas have become exhausted , through the 60's , 70's and into the 80's it felt I was reading something new most of the time. The stories flowed on and on with characterisation being an important part and you actually felt it when Gwen Stacy , Captain Marvel , Jean Grey died , it all felt real . Now the same stories crop up over and over , how many different future timelines do the X-Men have for example. It just feels like groundhog day over and over again. The only way the industry seems to be able to sell the stories are by relaunches , dozens and dozens of variant covers etc. I'm sure within 10 years the industry will be on its last legs unless the writers look back and try to understand how Lee & Kirby , Thomas , Claremont , Miller etc etc. honed their craft.
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Post by kemp on Mar 4, 2019 4:41:38 GMT -5
My previous post was meant to be a reply to another poster who had some really great points, but he removed it, so I'm just putting my comments as stand alones. From the reports/rumours in relation to Disney probably looking to shut down Marvel Comics. 'If less people are buying comics and the direct market is on the verge of collapse, then why should a megacorp like Disney continue to bother publishing them at all, especially when they can make far more money mining the intellectual properties for other mediums? Well, perhaps that’s why Quesada and Cebulski plan to make the case that none of those things would be possible without the comics. Therefore, comics must continue to be published even if they add little value to the budget on their own simply because they provide the genetic material to make actual profits elsewhere.' That probably sums up the only monetary reason for the continuation of Marvel comics at all these days given the decline in quality. I dunno, but it coulda been my last post on this thread I tried to edit the post earlier today and ended up deleting it entirely. It was, and I didn't mention you out of respect to thinking you had your own reasons for deleting the post, maybe add something later type of thing. At the same I didn't want to look like I was taking any of your information, the comment on digital comics was in direct relation to your reference on it, hence why I mentioned that there was a post. As always, you made some very notable and informed points.
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Post by johnnypt on Mar 4, 2019 11:52:47 GMT -5
One issue I came across while I decided to cutback is it's just not fun any more. When I got back into things around 1998, you still had a lot of old school creators and characters and plots still around. Busiek's Avengers was exactly what I needed: a book I loved as a kid that was still linked to those stories but done in a modern way. His Thunderbolts tied right into that. The Marvels mini-series was like a encyclopedia talking about all of the stories (and series!) I had no idea happened: Sub-Mariner had a series in the 70s? Ant Man too? Gotta look these up!
Then in the mid 2000s, it's clear they made a conscious choice NOT to do things like that any more. By the end of that decade, the stories and price point made me WANT to cut down. Now it's so disconnected from what I enjoyed about it, with the long stories that don't lead anywhere or tie back to anything to creators who honestly don't seem to care about ticking off a good segment of their audience.
The relatively big sales for the Conan Omni (stress relatively) shows there still is some kind of audience for the material, so I doubt they'd completely shut down Marvel or turn it just into a movie/TV thing. But there's definitely an argument to cutting back on what they're doing. Newer characters like Miles Morales, Kate Bishop and Kamala Khan haven't supplanted the characters they were (possibly) meant to replace, but they can comfortably co-exist along side of them done properly. Is anyone really anxious to see a movie based on any of the new storylines from the past 10 years? The past 20 years, you at least have Civil War and Secret Invasion that have points of interest, plus possible a House of M half season of some TV show might be interesting. But even those are last decade.
At this point with the way people get their entertainment, this may not be the optimal delivery system. Would people want to wait 6 months and buy a complete story 2 or 3 times a year as a trade? Guess it would depend.
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Post by kemp on Mar 5, 2019 7:35:38 GMT -5
I probably haven’t given due consideration to some the individual writers and artists who are probably not happy with many of the decisions made by the Marvel publishing editorial staff, but probably have not been able to properly speak up or about the direction the industry has gone in for various reasons. Then again, there is Jon Malin who tweeted his views not so long ago. ‘Marvel artist Jon Malin who is the current artist on Cable and recently did a variant cover of Marvel Two-In-One took a big stand against social justice warriors and their infestation of the comic book industry.’ Malin spoke with DC Comics artist Ethan Van Sciver and described SJWs (social justice warriors) as those who seek to “marginalize a group of people through identity and use the other people against them.” He also describes them as people who use “less than noble means to get their ideology through [by] silencing people.” boundingintocomics.com/2018/01/22/marvel-artist-jon-malin-takes-huge-stand-sjw-infestation-comic-book-industry/Not surprisingly many in the ideological left called for him to lose his job over his comments.
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Post by kemp on Mar 5, 2019 7:46:39 GMT -5
I have read something about some comic writers that have gone over to players like Comicsgate, a movement in opposition to much of the content being churned out by Marvel and DC these days. They have published a few things. In all honesty, I am not sure about them, there is always the danger of things going too much the other way, and I don’t think we would like or want that too. I suppose you can call Comicsgate a part of the fallout that resulted from bad decisions made by Marvel and DC, also a business opportunity. I like that cover though.
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Post by andys on Mar 5, 2019 11:06:53 GMT -5
The Comicsgate stuff doesn't much interest me because it all seems very early 90s-influenced and that's not an era that holds any nostalgia for me (I didn't buy Cyberfrog the first time around, so I'm not likely to buy it now), but I have nothing against them putting their stuff out there. At least they're trying something and doing what makes them happy. Crowdfunding is a great way to see if there's an audience out there that isn't being served by what the industry is currently offering.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 13:15:43 GMT -5
Maybe Marvel and DC should ease in a European model with Original Graphic Novels with at least some of the titles - SSOC would be a perfect candidate with different creative teams on each book (story-arc). I know Marvel probably did well with the sales of the first issue, but I think they'll be real fortunate if they can replicate that again.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Mar 5, 2019 19:40:32 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 14:14:53 GMT -5
I found out about this from one of the threads at the classiccomics forum (thanks to Mrp) - an interesting look at the page rates in 2017 for creators in the industry from the Creator Resource: Comic book freelancing tools and resources website. I have included the opening paragraphs of the post and the rates for Marvel and DC. A word of caution, this is the first time that I have come across this website so I'm a little apprehensive about the accuracy of the information - but still serves as a good rough guide when looking at orders for monthly comics. Page Rates – 2017
Posted on July 13, 2018 by Stephanie Cooke The survey aims to build a resource about standard rates in the comic book industry for comic creators. Additionally, we hope that this data will encourage professionals not to accept work that pays below a living wage.
The survey responses are gathered from comics professionals who choose to take the survey. The data is a based on a non-representative sample. There is potential for a self-selection bias, meaning those who choose to participate may be more likely to have certain perspectives or traits. Therefore, it is not representative of the population. That said, self-selection sampling is a widely used and accepted research method of non-probability sampling.
The data was gathered anonymously from a sample size of 142 comics professionals. This data will be used as a resource in the process of being built. We are not drawing conclusions or interpreting the data at this point.
The more people who participate, the more useful this data will be for all creators in the industry.
All of our page rate information is in USD. If any publishers paid in a different currency that was noted, we’ve converted that to USD.
In addition to the page rates, we asked a few additional questions to gauge the industry a bit better including how long participants have been working in comics and what their primary sources of income within the industry are. All of this is found in our compilation of the data below.MARVELScript highest $80 lowest $40 average $60 Pencils highest $180 lowest $160 average $173 Inks highest $120 lowest $90 average $100 Colourshighest $95 lowest $75 average $86 Letters highest $45* lowest $23 average $34 Cover highest $800 lowest $585 average $731 Script + Art highest $200 lowest — highest — All Art highest $300 lowest — average — *This rate was an exception from the norm we noticed amongst the Marvel lettering rates. We have confirmed that the typical starting rate for letterers at Marvel is $23/page. DC COMICSScript highest $125 lowest $75 average $99 Pencils highest $200 lowest — average — Inks highest $120 lowest — average — Colours highest $135 lowest $121 average $129 Covers highest $800 lowest $400 average $633 Here's a link to the Creator Resource website: www.creatorresource.com/page-rates-2017/
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 12:14:27 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 16:57:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 17:24:29 GMT -5
Dan DiDio on the Talent Pool, $3.99 Price Points and the Growth of Kids Comicswww.bleedingcool.com/2019/03/10/dan-didio-talent-pool-3-99-growth-kids-comics/Extract: He (Dan DiDio) told retailers that he believes the quality of the available talent pool isn’t ‘deep’ enough for the number of titles that the comics industry is publishing. That there are too many comics, not enough quality creators to create them. However DC Comics has better rates and royalties than the competition to access a better talent pool.
He talked about DC Comics’ plans to work with talent to hone single-issue storytelling rather than the decompressed ‘writing for the collection’ which has become more popular over the years.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 12:58:48 GMT -5
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Post by johnnypt on Mar 15, 2019 14:02:39 GMT -5
I think they'll probably take less titles selling more copies as a model than the opposite.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 15:03:36 GMT -5
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