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Post by Char-Vell on Apr 5, 2018 15:04:36 GMT -5
Attention REH scholars!
All the maps of the Hyborian age I find show a lot of nothing in the extreme northeast.
Did REH ever address what was there?
Hyrkanians? Proto-Tibetans? |
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Post by deuce on Apr 5, 2018 23:51:33 GMT -5
Attention REH scholars!
All the maps of the Hyborian age I find show a lot of nothing in the extreme northeast.
Did REH ever address what was there?
Hyrkanians? Proto-Tibetans? "Extreme northeast" compared to where? Your thread title would indicate a relatively small area that is far to the west of Tibet. Are you talking about north of Khitai and the steppes north of that? The taiga/tundra in the far northeast of Eurasia? "[Conan] travelled to Khitai and Hyrkania, and to the even less known regions north of the latter and south of the former. (...) I was much interested in your remarks concerning findings on the Yamal Peninsula, the first time I had heard anything about that. Doubtless Conan had first-hand acquaintance with the people who evolved the culture described, or their ancestors, at least."
-- REH to P. Schuyler Miller, 1936
The Yamal Peninsula is roughly 1000mi from the eastern Hyperborean frontier (and not particularly close to Tibet):
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamal_Peninsula |
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Post by Char-Vell on Apr 6, 2018 6:54:03 GMT -5
I was referring roughly to the area marked Tundra/deserts on the above map, and east of there.
Yeah, Tibet would be to the south quite a bit. that was ill-considered on my part.
I'm off to read up on the Yamal Peninsula.
Thanks!
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Post by deuce on Apr 6, 2018 11:20:22 GMT -5
Hyrkanians? Proto-Tibetans? There are many indications that by "Hyrkanian" REH simply meant "Central Asian" or what he termed "Mongoloid" or "Turco-Mongol". The Hyrkanians, after all, were plainly stated by Howard to be the direct--no admixture--ancestors of the Turco-Mongol/Mongoloid/Altaic/whatever peoples known to our modern age. There's nothing to indicate that there were radically different peoples north of "Hyrkania" proper. In the extreme northeast, there might've been some traces of ancient, ancient Pictish blood in the peoples dwelling in what would become Siberia. In the northwest, between the Yamal Peninsula/western Siberia and the "Barren Marches" of Hyperborea, there would be the best chance of finding a Hyborian Age analog to the Suomi/Lapp/Finn peoples. REH specifically stated--in his opinion--that the Finns were "Mongoloid". Such a people could have strains of Hyborian blood as well as traces from bygone Thurian Age nations like Grondar. Certain references from Howard--like the quote I posted earlier--seem to indicate that "Hyrkania" was a fairly definite region, probably delineated around the domains of horse-nomads of Lemurian descent east of the Vilayet. Those domains would be ultimated defined by where horse-nomads could survive. Hyrkania would then be divvied up into smaller regions, probably based mostly on geography, since tribal dominions would fluctuate, as we've seen again and again in our own history. Tundra/taiga is poor country for horse-nomads, but the peoples in those areas would still be descendants of the Lemurian slaves enthralled by the proto-Stygians. We could call such peoples, as an overall name, "Sibirs", I suppose. |
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Post by kemp on Apr 29, 2018 7:13:52 GMT -5
I was referring roughly to the area marked Tundra/deserts on the above map, and east of there. Yeah, Tibet would be to the south quite a bit. that was ill-considered on my part. I'm off to read up on the Yamal Peninsula. Thanks! I have wondered about that region marked Tundra/Deserts just east of Hyperborea and west of the Vilayet. I always saw it as a no mans land between the Hyboreans and Hyrkanians, a great stomping ground for bandits such as the Kozaki, hideout potential, but mostly uninhabitable in the more inhospitable north marked as the Tundra. |
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Post by Char-Vell on Apr 30, 2018 7:26:50 GMT -5
I was referring roughly to the area marked Tundra/deserts on the above map, and east of there. Yeah, Tibet would be to the south quite a bit. that was ill-considered on my part. I'm off to read up on the Yamal Peninsula. Thanks! I have wondered about that region marked Tundra/Deserts just east of Hyperborea and west of the Vilayet. I always saw it as a no mans land between the Hyboreans and Hyrkanians, a great stomping ground for bandits such as the Kozaki, hideout potential, but mostly uninhabitable in the more inhospitable north marked as the Tundra. It looked like a good spot to exploit for pastiche purposes! perhaps a good habitat for some hyborian pseudo eskimo types. nad some ancient Elder Thing outposts, ect....
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Post by kemp on Apr 30, 2018 8:05:44 GMT -5
I have wondered about that region marked Tundra/Deserts just east of Hyperborea and west of the Vilayet. I always saw it as a no mans land between the Hyboreans and Hyrkanians, a great stomping ground for bandits such as the Kozaki, hideout potential, but mostly uninhabitable in the more inhospitable north marked as the Tundra. It looked like a good spot to exploit for pastiche purposes! perhaps a good habitat for some hyborian pseudo eskimo types. nad some ancient Elder Thing outposts, ect....
I always liked the look of that place myself, and it was also probably due to the potential for the unexpected that it presented. That misty place where you can imagine killer apes and neanderthals dwelt, mammoth roamed, maybe a lost city or two from some forgotten age type of thing, possibilities are endless. As for Hyborian psuedo eskimoes, seem to remember an SSOC where Conan ends up in the Arctic with Red Sonya and Valeria, and they wind up stealing some totem from an eskimo tribe. |
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Post by Char-Vell on Apr 30, 2018 8:25:54 GMT -5
It looked like a good spot to exploit for pastiche purposes! perhaps a good habitat for some hyborian pseudo eskimo types. nad some ancient Elder Thing outposts, ect....
I always liked the look of that place myself, and it was also probably due to the potential for the unexpected that it presented. That misty place where you can imagine killer apes and neanderthals dwelt, mammoth roamed, maybe a lost city or two from some forgotten age type of thing, possibilities are endless. As for Hyborian psuedo eskimoes, seem to remember an SSOC where Conan ends up in the Arctic with Red Sonya and Valeria, and they wind up stealing some totem from an eskimo tribe. That sounds familiar.
As I recall Red Sonya and Valeria were sort of out of character and catfigting nonstop.
I think there might have also been "eskimos" in the skull on the seas story arc.
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Post by kemp on Apr 30, 2018 8:35:50 GMT -5
I always liked the look of that place myself, and it was also probably due to the potential for the unexpected that it presented. That misty place where you can imagine killer apes and neanderthals dwelt, mammoth roamed, maybe a lost city or two from some forgotten age type of thing, possibilities are endless. As for Hyborian psuedo eskimoes, seem to remember an SSOC where Conan ends up in the Arctic with Red Sonya and Valeria, and they wind up stealing some totem from an eskimo tribe. That sounds familiar.
As I recall Red Sonya and Valeria were sort of out of character and catfigting nonstop.
I think there might have also been "eskimos" in the skull on the seas story arc.
Cat fighting part of the way, and I think they ended up betraying Conan, leaving him stranded so they could share the treasure between the two of them, as opposed to a three way split. |
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Post by deuce on Apr 30, 2018 11:15:51 GMT -5
It looked like a good spot to exploit for pastiche purposes! perhaps a good habitat for some hyborian pseudo eskimo types. nad some ancient Elder Thing outposts, ect....
REH--in Marchers of Valhalla--placed "pseudo eskimo types" in what would be Beringia/Alaska. What would be the problem with using "pseudo Sami/Saami/Lapp/Samoyedic/Uralic types" in the area you're talking about? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_peopleen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoyedic_peoplesThe Nenets people of the Yamal Peninsula (mentioned by REH) are Samoyedic. Sami/Samoyed/Uralic-speakers extend almost from the Atlantic to the Pacific. REH would've read of them in pulp stories by Harold Lamb (Lamb has them swearing by Erlik, BTW) in addition to whatever Dr. Miller sent him. In one Lamb story, a reindeer-riding Samoyed journeys to find a mammoth "graveyard" for ivory. The Sami/Samoyeds are at least as fascinating as the Inuit and definitely as formidable. ![]() |
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Post by Char-Vell on Apr 30, 2018 11:46:40 GMT -5
It looked like a good spot to exploit for pastiche purposes! perhaps a good habitat for some hyborian pseudo eskimo types. nad some ancient Elder Thing outposts, ect....
REH--in Marchers of Valhalla--placed "pseudo eskimo types" in what would be Beringia/Alaska. What would be the problem with using "pseudo Sami/Saami/Lapp/Samoyedic/Uralic types" in the area you're talking about? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_peopleen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoyedic_peoplesThe Nenets people of the Yamal Peninsula (mentioned by REH) are Samoyedic. Sami/Samoyed/Uralic-speakers extend almost from the Atlantic to the Pacific. REH would've read of them in pulp stories by Harold Lamb (Lamb has them swearing by Erlik, BTW) in addition to whatever Dr. Miller sent him. In one Lamb story, a reindeer-riding Samoyed journeys to find a mammoth "graveyard" for ivory. The Sami/Samoyeds are at least as fascinating as the Inuit and definitely as formidable. ![]()
This is exactly the sort of information I was fishing for.
Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 12:46:34 GMT -5
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Post by kemp on Apr 30, 2018 15:02:24 GMT -5
Certainly a wide spread bunch, the language family covers a significant area of Europe, as it does Asia. Not hard to imagine including Finno Ugric speakers in some sort of pastiche. |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2018 10:19:45 GMT -5
Just remembered this from the first submitted draft of The Phoenix on the Sword.
“Asgard and Vanaheim,” Prospero scanned the map. “By Mitra, I had almost believed those lands to be fabulous.”
Conan grinned and involuntarily touched the various scars on his dark face. “By Mitra, had you spent your youth on the northern frontier of Cimmeria, you had known otherwise! Asgard lies to the north, and Vanaheim to the northwest of Cimmeria, and there is continual war along the borders. The western part of Vanaheim lies along the shores of the western sea, and east of Asgard is the country of the Hyperboreans, who are civilized and dwell in cities. East beyond their country are the deserts of the Hyrkanians.” Conan, Volume 1, Del Rey/Wandering Star, p.359-360.
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