|
|
Post by kemp on Jul 12, 2022 17:22:16 GMT -5
The Balkans have never been much popular in the West, even though its history is a literal Game of Thrones, especially in the Middle Ages. A pity. There is a lot of material that would revive the historical genre on film. One of the greatest and most fateful battles of all time, fought in the south of Serbia against the Ottomans, back in 1389. Even Howard himself mentioned it in a letter to Lovecraft long ago. As far as Aleksić is concerned, the man is a top expert on the subject. I highly recommend (if you can find it) the book "Prince Marko - the man who became a legend" - one of the most tragic figures, and one of the greatest heroes of Serbia. He literally came as Serbian Conan, he was a man of extraordinary strength, an invincible fighter and very large and muscular. Petar Meseldžija (often mentioned here), who also painted Conan after all, painted Prince Marko as well. ![]() I think the reason that the Balkans are not very popular with various powers might be for the reason that they find the people from that part of Europe stubborn and uncontrollable, but that's probably a good thing right, a little like the tennis player Novak who might end up just getting more slams than anyone else in tennis  I respect independent thought so I understand. The worst thing might be to be liked too much, but I digress. Yes, REH did mention the medieval Serbs in the context of a battle with the Ottomans. Courtesy of a post by Deuce on another thread. The Battle of Kosovo in 1389. Robert E. Howard comment to Lovecraft: 'Another thing - I have no patience with writers, historical or fictional, who glorify Oriental [ie, non-Western] monarchs, comparing them with western rulers, to the discredit of the later; who decry the outrages committed by the westerners on the Orientals, and then gloss over the atrocities of the latter, holding up some western outrage as some excuse. Westerners have suffered a hell of a lot more outrages at the hands of the Orientals than vice versa. I am utterly unmoved when I read of massacres of Asiatics - especially Muhammadans - by Christians. They started it, blast their hides - back in the days of Peter the Hermit, when the Seljuks took Palestine and started maltreating pilgrims to Jerusalem. And before that, in the days of Muhammad, and of the Caliphs - and of the Moors in Spain. Not a blow struck against Islam but we owed it to them. Even Stanley Lane-Poole deplores the action of Milosh Kabilovitch, who struck down Murad in the hour of victory at Kossovo - he looks on it as a traitorous murder, apparently. Bah! Who ever heard of such infernal drivel. Which was worse - Milosh, who approached the Turk smiling, and suddenly drove the dagger in his guts, or Murad, who had just butchered a nation, and dragged thousands of innocent men, women and children into slavery? I have intense admiration for Milosh - and for Ehud the Benjamite who stabbed Eglon the Moabitish tyrant - and for William Tell, whether real or legendary.' -- Robert E. Howard in a letter to HP Lovecraft I might as well include the Kosovo Maiden by Uros Predic.  |
|
|
|
Post by BlackHeart on Jul 13, 2022 3:58:39 GMT -5
Hahaha 😅 True, Kemp... Stubbornness and combativeness are the characteristics of the Balkan people 😉
And Milos (Miloš Obilić/Kobilić) was a Serbian knight who is reputed to have been in the service of Prince Lazar during the Ottoman invasion of Serbia in the late 14th century. No one is sure about his last name though. The surname Kobilić could come from the Slavic word kobila (mare), and means "mare's son", as in Serbian legends the hero is said to have been nursed by one.
He was first mentioned in biography of Stefan Larazević, Lazar's son, by Constantine the Philosopher, written in the 1440s. The hero is described as a man of noble birth whom envious tongues had sought to defame before the prince. To prove his loyalty and courage, he left the front line on the pretext of being a deserter, seized the opportunity to stab the sultan to death and was killed himself shortly afterwards. Although he himself killed bunch of janissaries until he too was finally cut down. He was a great vojvoda among warriors.
Several sources mention a different story, though, and many believe that the sultan was killed in direct combat, although Turkish and Serbian sources agree on the name of the killer. It was the first and last time that the Turkish sultan was killed in war. As well as his son prince Jakub. Serbian Prince Lazar also died in the same battle. It was one of the bloodiest battles of the Middle Ages, in which a large Turkish army was stopped and destroyed, which, as its goal, had a great campaign on Europe. The bells of Notre Dame Church in Paris rang in honor of the Christian victory.
|
|
|
|
Post by mingerganthecat on Jul 13, 2022 20:14:57 GMT -5
Hahaha 😅 True, Kemp... Stubbornness and combativeness are the characteristics of the Balkan people 😉 Was married to a Bulgarian. Can confirm. |
|
|
|
Post by mingerganthecat on Jul 13, 2022 20:19:14 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by BlackHeart on Jul 13, 2022 23:31:52 GMT -5
Bulgarian women are beautiful 💗 Btw I agree with the man. The day a nation forgets its history, its heroes, is the day it ceases to exist. Heroism is something to be celebrated, and to strive for. What is Conan himself, if not the archetype of the hero and man we all want to be in the depths of our souls? |
|
|
|
Post by kemp on Jul 14, 2022 0:14:08 GMT -5
Everyone can be like Conan if they have some sense of independence, at least some. Most people are tweebs, they like to watch heoric fantasy flicks featuring Conan or play games and such, but willingly obey governments every whim, the kind that will make sure to wear their muzzles in place and stand 1.5 meters apart from each other when told to do so and than excuse themselves by saying something commie like 'it's for the common good' or some such nonsense. Pathetic.
|
|
|
|
Post by kemp on Jul 14, 2022 0:19:31 GMT -5
I knew I forgot something, yes, that Prince Marko and the Dragon by Petar Meseldzija.  Plenty of inspiration for your fan fiction. |
|
|
|
Post by BlackHeart on Jul 14, 2022 1:40:36 GMT -5
Everyone can be like Conan if they have some sense of independence, at least some. Most people are tweebs, they like to watch heoric fantasy flicks featuring Conan or play games and such, but willingly obey governments every whim, the kind that will make sure to wear their muzzles in place and stand 1.5 meters apart from each other when told to do so and than excuse themselves by saying something commie like 'it's for the common good' or some such nonsense. Pathetic. I agree. Most watch something (in this case the Conan saga) as how people used to watch the games in Rome. I live that barbaric way to the maximum in thia modern times. One must be self-aware, have a sense of freedom and be ready to fight if needed. Life is not sunshine and rainbows. Life is a battlefield, from the cradle to the grave. We are soft today. Too much... And that is pathetic. Conan would laugh out loud today. So would Prince Marko 😎 |
|
|
|
Post by kemp on Jul 14, 2022 20:34:48 GMT -5
Everyone can be like Conan if they have some sense of independence, at least some. Most people are tweebs, they like to watch heoric fantasy flicks featuring Conan or play games and such, but willingly obey governments every whim, the kind that will make sure to wear their muzzles in place and stand 1.5 meters apart from each other when told to do so and than excuse themselves by saying something commie like 'it's for the common good' or some such nonsense. Pathetic. I agree. Most watch something (in this case the Conan saga) as how people used to watch the games in Rome. I live that barbaric way to the maximum in thia modern times. One must be self-aware, have a sense of freedom and be ready to fight if needed. Life is not sunshine and rainbows. Life is a battlefield, from the cradle to the grave. We are soft today. Too much... And that is pathetic. Conan would laugh out loud today. So would Prince Marko 😎 Well said Blackheart We are led by too many King Numedides types and their quisling subordinates these days, not to mention the populations that are so willing to succumb to them. Thinking back on your backstory, prelude to Conan taking the Crown of Aquilonia, and the machinations of Count Kalidios, it is almost ironic that Conan would want to rule over a nation of Hyborians with their quasi late medieval/slave economy system considering that his ways are diametrically opposed to that type of civilisation. Of course those in the Gunderland province are more independent minded. Here is the thing though, the stubborn and clannish Cimmerians would never accept a king over them, even one of their own. Conan can only rule over a people unlike him. Conan is an enigma in that way. |
|
|
|
Post by BlackHeart on Jul 14, 2022 23:39:21 GMT -5
Well said Blackheart We are led by too many King Numedides types and their quisling subordinates these days, not to mention the populations that are so willing to succumb to them. Thinking back on your backstory, prelude to Conan taking the Crown of Aquilonia, and the machinations of Count Kalidios, it is almost ironic that Conan would want to rule over a nation of Hyborians with their quasi late medieval/slave economy system considering that his ways are diametrically opposed to that type of civilisation. Of course those in the Gunderland province are more independent minded. Here is the thing though, the stubborn and clannish Cimmerians would never accept a king over them, even one of their own. Conan can only rule over a people unlike him. Conan is an enigma in that way. That's why the modern world needs Conan - someone has to be a balance to today's Numedids 😉 As for the desire for power, I've always attributed that to his growing momentum. Best explained in Red Nails, when he lists to Valeria what he has been, saying that he still has to be the king of a country. A wild soul drives him into action, and the man does not refuse what is offered to him. Simply put, he can. And the result of the rule of such a man, wild, unconquered, anti-counter to decadent civilization, is visible precisely in that golden age that follows him. Imagine a world where there are more such leaders. Strong, brave, enlightened by experience, empathetic with the people who should rest peacefully on their sholders... Kalidios' model is, unfortunately, too well known to us. |
|
|
|
Post by BlackHeart on Jul 15, 2022 8:40:08 GMT -5
Forget about what I said about the initial victory of Valerius. I love the dialogue between the captain and Conan. Glad you like it, my friend. I have a few more small fragments somewhere in the folders on my computer. When I find time to translate them, I'll post them here. I say, the idea is that Valerius's troops pass through Poitain with sword and fire. From the start, it seems that Trocero's and Conan's men won't stand a chance. And in fact, their withdrawal is just a bait. At the beginning, there are only Poitans. But then the massacre of the royal army sent a clear message to the rest of the kingdom (feared by Numedides) that the tyrant was not invincible. That maybe he can even be dethroned (which eventually happened). And so, after these events, little by little the rebellion would grow. |
|
|
|
Post by kemp on Jul 17, 2022 1:25:45 GMT -5
Well said Blackheart We are led by too many King Numedides types and their quisling subordinates these days, not to mention the populations that are so willing to succumb to them. Thinking back on your backstory, prelude to Conan taking the Crown of Aquilonia, and the machinations of Count Kalidios, it is almost ironic that Conan would want to rule over a nation of Hyborians with their quasi late medieval/slave economy system considering that his ways are diametrically opposed to that type of civilisation. Of course those in the Gunderland province are more independent minded. Here is the thing though, the stubborn and clannish Cimmerians would never accept a king over them, even one of their own. Conan can only rule over a people unlike him. Conan is an enigma in that way. That's why the modern world needs Conan - someone has to be a balance to today's Numedids 😉 As for the desire for power, I've always attributed that to his growing momentum. Best explained in Red Nails, when he lists to Valeria what he has been, saying that he still has to be the king of a country. A wild soul drives him into action, and the man does not refuse what is offered to him. Simply put, he can. And the result of the rule of such a man, wild, unconquered, anti-counter to decadent civilization, is visible precisely in that golden age that follows him. Imagine a world where there are more such leaders. Strong, brave, enlightened by experience, empathetic with the people who should rest peacefully on their sholders... Kalidios' model is, unfortunately, too well known to us. I think we have many Conan types these days, from nameless ordinary people to certain individuals in the public domain who defy unjust dictates set by various elites, but yes, we certainly need more enlightened leaders with a respectable degree of justice and decency. Most of the stories concerning Conan as king centre on his adventures and the plans hatched against him by his enemies, not too much on what life was like for the ordinary Aquilonian under Conan's reign. However we have a few snippets to go on. 'I found Aquilonia in the grip of a pig like you - one who traced his genealogy for a thousand years. The land was torn with the wars of the barons, and the people cried out under oppression and taxation. Today, no Aquilonian noble dares maltreat the humblest of my subjects and the taxes of the people are lighter than anywhere else in the world. What of you? Your brother, Amalrus, holds the eastern half of your kingdom, and defies you. And you, Strabonus, your soldiers are even now besieging castles of a dozen or more rebellious barons. The people of both your kingdoms are crushed into the earth by tyrannous taxes and levies."' The Scarlet Citadel by REH |
|
|
|
Post by BlackHeart on Jul 17, 2022 14:18:43 GMT -5
We do have, Kemp. Mostly among the common people. And most of the time, others consider us hot shots and idiots 😉
I've always believed that it is very important to have an ideal and stick to it. We have to be loyal to something in life. But not to the system. This very passage you shared vividly conveys why. The world is corrupted. But that's another story, which many here will find inappropriate.
|
|
|
|
Post by kemp on Jul 17, 2022 23:53:44 GMT -5
Got that right, most prefer the gilded cage.
|
|
|
|
Post by BlackHeart on Jul 18, 2022 4:12:58 GMT -5
Got that right, most prefer the gilded cage. You know how they say: Don’t be Parrot, Be an Eagle. Birds born in cages usually think that flying is an illness. |
|
