|
|
Post by boot on Aug 25, 2018 16:10:04 GMT -5
I am re-reading The Scarlet Citadel. It's been decades since I've read it. I have questions that I'm sure have been discussed before.
First, Conan's capital is Tamar? Not Tarantia? What's the story with that?
Conan remarks that it would take (on the fastest horse) until mid-day to reach Shamar, in Aquilonia. It is around midnight when Conan says this, so the journey to Shamar from Korshemish is about 18 hours or so, riding straight through.
But, this is through at last one mountain range that is usually on the northern border of Koth and across the entire kingdom of Ophir. A swift horse could be pushed to 6 miles per hour, so that's 108 miles. And this is in the best of terrain conditions--flat, easy-to-travel roads.
It's got to be more than 108 miles across Ophir, right? Crossing from the Kothian border, across Ophir, to the Aquilonian border?
Maps on the net seem to have the distance more like over 400 miles (425?) as the crow flies, which, we know, is not the path that Conan would have to take by horse.
|
|
|
|
Post by boot on Aug 26, 2018 12:07:32 GMT -5
Adding to the above:
Conan also says that from Shamar to Tamar is five days ride, if you kill the horses. This is a lot longer distance than Khorshemish-across Ophir--to Shamar.
Another novelty:
In the description of the siege of Shamar, sappers are said to dig under the citadel towers to plant their mines. There are explosives during the Hyborian Age? Gun powder? Maybe a chemical like nitroglycerin?
That seems more advanced than how I see Conan's world in my mind's eye, but Howard did write it.
|
|
|
|
Post by boot on Aug 26, 2018 16:55:26 GMT -5
Another wonder I have is: How easy is it to cross the various kingdoms of the Hyborian Age? For example, I purchased a full run of Conan The Savage off of eBay and the lead story is set in an Aquilonian outpost that is on the north side of the Eiglophians.
Obviously, those troops would have traveled across Cimmeria to get there. Is it that easy? That a column of soldiers cross the lands of several Cimmerian clans? Do we assume that the Aquilonians didn't run into any Cimmerians, or that the Cimmerians chose not to engage the force? Did the Aquilonians make deals? Just how dense in population are the Cimmerian clans? Is there are lot of no-man's-land wilderness claimed by no clan?
I can't imagine that any force could cross Aquilonia easily--not without a battle.
What about Stygia?
What about Corinthia?
What about Koth?
|
|
|
|
Post by Von K on Aug 26, 2018 20:29:17 GMT -5
Adding to the above: Conan also says that from Shamar to Tamar is five days ride, if you kill the horses. This is a lot longer distance than Khorshemish-across Ophir--to Shamar. Another novelty: In the description of the siege of Shamar, sappers are said to dig under the citadel towers to plant their mines. There are explosives during the Hyborian Age? Gun powder? Maybe a chemical like nitroglycerin? That seems more advanced than how I see Conan's world in my mind's eye, but Howard did write it. Mines were dug under castle walls during sieges long before the advent of gunpowder. Usually they were to weaken and 'undermine' (which is where the phrase originates from) the foundations. Sometimes the mines were shored up with wooden supports then flammable materials were left in the tunnels. The miners would evacuate their tunnel then set the kindling aflame to burn the supports and collapse the tunnels under the foundations to weaken structure above. Other times tunnels were dug to gain access to the castle interior so that besieging troops could issue forth from within the walls (as in REH's Shadow of the Vulture). Countermines were sometimes also used by the defenders. Explosives were employed later of course, but use of the tunneling of mines during sieges has a long history before explosives: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_warfareTamar and Tarantia have been covered by REH scholars. You might be able to track down an article of two on that with a net search. As for the distances this depends what map you are using. REH's map does not show the exact location of most cities so the distances and travel times he gives can be used to place them accordingly rather than vice versa. The Modiphius Conan map is one of the most accurate, might be worth checking that one out. The Eiglophian mountains is a pastiche name imported into the Hyborian Age by LSdC and LC from Clark Ashton Smith's works. |
|
|
|
Post by boot on Aug 26, 2018 22:03:41 GMT -5
Interesting stuff. Thanks.
As far as the Eiglophians, even if they are ignored, the story is still set in Vanaheim, just north of Cimmeria. So, my questions still stand.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnnypt on Aug 27, 2018 8:13:37 GMT -5
I am re-reading The Scarlet Citadel. It's been decades since I've read it. I have questions that I'm sure have been discussed before. First, Conan's capital is Tamar? Not Tarantia? What's the story with that? To me, there's two choices: A) He forgot and just changed the name (see Numedides/Namedides) or, B) You can come up with an elaborate story on why it's correct and get a Howard No Prize. Dale Rippke came up with the idea that the capital WAS Tamar but Conan moved it to Tarantia between SC and HOTD to placate some nobles. I take it one step further and have them been twin cities right across the river from one another, but not sure how that works geographically. I'm trying to think if I've read any other articles on the subject, but check above. |
|
|
|
Post by boot on Aug 27, 2018 9:00:23 GMT -5
From what I've found, there are four handwaves about Tarantia/Tamar....
1. They are two words for the same place. In ancient days, the place was called Tamar, but today, properly, it is Tarantia, though the earlier name is still in use.
2. In a similar fashion, Tamar is the name of the inner city--the original city--referring to the keep. As the city grew beyond just the castle, it became a true city called Tarantia. So, castle Tamar in the city of Tarantia.
3. Tamar is one of Conan's palaces, and it is a separate place than Tarantia. In the DH adaptation of The Scarlet Citadel, Shamar is the king's winter palace. This option suggests that Tamar is yet a third palace outside of Tarantia. I guess to take Aquilonia, you've got to take Shamar, Tamar, and Tarantia (plus other strong points, like Poitain).
4. Then, there's the idea that Tamar was Conan's capital, but the king ends up moving it to Tarantia in between TSC and HotD.
|
|
