|
Post by thedarkman on Feb 27, 2019 22:22:30 GMT -5
I have yet to read Rogue, but I have read Valorous and it’s quite good. Conan back in Cimmeria vs evil Sorcerer, plenty of action and very well thought out view of Cimmerian life and the friction between clans.
|
|
|
Post by boot on Feb 28, 2019 11:50:26 GMT -5
I've purchased Conan The Rogue and Conan The Valorous on Abesbooks, The valorous has already arrived. The Rogue is still on it's way, hopefully it will show soon! Would kindly welcome opinions on these two pastiches? JMR and Robert Jordan are the two best pastiche writers, imo. All of JMR's Conan books are good reads. There's not a bad one in the bunch.
|
|
|
Post by mindboggled on Mar 2, 2019 22:58:44 GMT -5
I've purchased Conan The Rogue and Conan The Valorous on Abesbooks, The valorous has already arrived. The Rogue is still on it's way, hopefully it will show soon! Would kindly welcome opinions on these two pastiches? JMR and Robert Jordan are the two best pastiche writers, imo. All of JMR's Conan books are good reads. There's not a bad one in the bunch. That's fantastic to hear, I might try and purchase some more of them.
|
|
|
Post by mindboggled on Mar 2, 2019 23:08:13 GMT -5
I have yet to read Rogue, but I have read Valorous and it’s quite good. Conan back in Cimmeria vs evil Sorcerer, plenty of action and very well thought out view of Cimmerian life and the friction between clans. I've begin reading the Valorous-it is quite good-a page turner, very addictive! I'am about half way through as I write this; right about where I believe Conan will soon be setting his feet on his homeland.
|
|
|
Post by mindboggled on Mar 3, 2019 19:39:20 GMT -5
I don't think I can bring myself to finish The Valorous! It started off pretty fun....but further on, it's flaws start to show. Roberts has a decent handle on the characterization of Conan(albeit to talkative and a little to chivalrous) he's got the character down. But Robert's prose is where the problem lies, it's the exact opposite of Howard's prose! Plain,simple and straightforward-lacking artistic flare. Conan takes up a side quest along the main one, this side quest takes up around a third of the books pages. And it does not seem to have any impact on the main story line, it practically could have been a separate book. The Valorous has it's moments, but overall feels cheap; just like most prose Conan pastiches I've read-Nothing more than fluff or popcorn entertainment. I might not try The Rogue-even tho it's already on it's way.
|
|
|
Post by thedarkman on Mar 3, 2019 21:30:08 GMT -5
Roberts made no attempt to imitate Howard’s style, but instead wrote the tale in his own style while remaining true to the characters and setting. Knowing this before I read the book made the difference in style less of an issue for me. Roberts’ Conan is certainly more thoughtful and chatty perhaps, but I found all his Conan books entertaining to read. Remember, there can only be one Howard, and it would most likely be foolish for others to try copy his prose style exactly.
|
|
|
Post by boot on Mar 3, 2019 22:31:55 GMT -5
I haven't read Valorous in decades, but I remember quite liking it.
Is Valorous the one where Conan bargains with the old woman for a loaf of bread near the beginning? Man, that cracked me up!
As is said above, you can't treat any Conan tale as a Howard tale if the story was not written by Howard. The best you can hope is that the writer gets somewhat close to the style and atmosphere of the original Howard tales. I think JMR does that in each of his books. Most think he is one of the best pastiche writers.
|
|
|
Post by buxom9sorceress on Mar 4, 2019 18:29:40 GMT -5
I don't think I can bring myself to finish The Valorous! It started off pretty fun....but further on, it's flaws start to show. Roberts has a decent handle on the characterization of Conan(albeit to talkative and a little to chivalrous) he's got the character down. But Robert's prose is where the problem lies, it's the exact opposite of Howard's prose! Plain,simple and straightforward-lacking artistic flare. Conan takes up a side quest along the main one, this side quest takes up around a third of the books pages. And it does not seem to have any impact on the main story line, it practically could have been a separate book. The Valorous has it's moments, but overall feels cheap; just like most prose Conan pastiches I've read-Nothing more than fluff or popcorn entertainment. I might not try The Rogue-even tho it's already on it's way. Hi if you dont have more patience reading roberts tales then you are just letting yourself down, and MISSING a lot of good /great conan stuff. i understand your confusion with the extra [added] tale part. often, Tor books would ask the writers for extra bits [ to fill the novels to a set length ] the writers did not like doing that, and roberts usually clearly shows the readers that the imposed extra section is not part of his main tale. [ i understand his silent protest. ] valourous and rogue are both very good books. all roberts conan are far better than most of the slop that tor churned out on their conveyor belt. rogue depicts conan at his most clever and cunning. it is well liked. >>>> Tips for reading pastiches: do not compare the tale to REH [ that is pointless and an insult to the pastiche writer ] I just compare a pastiche tale with other pastiches. that makes a fair comparison . i am more interested in the plot content than the style of writing. if its a good story then the style does not matter. over 75% of the conan pastiches are very poor sloppy crapp. BUT the BEST pastiches are often superb, magnificent, clever plots and mighty conan at his best. if you read /ask in this forum, then we can guide you to the best pastiches? dont order books blind. [ reading too many crappy tales will turn you into a gibbering jelly! ]
|
|
|
Post by boot on Mar 4, 2019 19:24:26 GMT -5
I like most pastiches. I advise staying away from Roland Green and Steve Perry. Perry is a good writer--I've read some of his other stuff. But, he just doesn't know Conan. He treats Conan like a D&D tale.
Roland Green is just awful. I've never been able to get through one of his books.
One more I'd mention is Leonard Carpenter. He's a prolific Conan writer, and he seems to know his Conan lore. He gets the details correct. But, I don't really think the guy knows how to write. He bores me. Many of his have interesting plots that are just destroyed by Carpenter's bland prose. Still, Carpenter is better at Conan than either Green or Perry.
To summarize:
Leonard Carpenter gets Conan and the Hyborian Age, but he writes a boring tale.
Steve Perry is the best writer out of these three (the worst Conan pastiche writers, imo), but he doesn't understand Conan or the Hyborian Age at all. Reading one of Perry's four Conan novels is akin to reading a generic fantasy book.
Roland Green: If you see his name on the cover, throw it down and run!
Anybody else, I typically enjoy. Sure, there are some bad apples in an otherwise good bunch, like L. Sprague De Camp's Conan and the Spider God as opposed to most of De Camp's other Conan work. And, still, I'd take Spider God over any of the three above. De Camp's stuff, I do typically like.
If you asked me who I like best, of the pastiche writers, I wouldn't hesitate to put John Maddox Roberts and Robert Jordan at the top (neither one of which writes exactly like Howard).
|
|
|
Post by Sangria Sword on Mar 4, 2019 20:39:27 GMT -5
Robert Jorden and John Maddox Roberts have written very competent Conan yarns. I've read their work and enjoyed them. I would like to read a Conan yarn written by Roy Thomas. He knows the character and Howard's work. You out there Roy? Hint, hint. I would definitely buy a Conan pastiche with his name on it. Nuff said.
|
|
|
Post by boot on Mar 4, 2019 21:12:38 GMT -5
Robert Jorden and John Maddox Roberts have written very competent Conan yarns. I've read their work and enjoyed them. I would like to read a Conan yarn written by Roy Thomas. He knows the character and Howard's work. You out there Roy? Hint, hint. I would definitely buy a Conan pastiche with his name on it. Nuff said. I typically love Roy's work in the comics, but when he did that stretch for Dark Horse a few years ago, it was easily the worst run that Dark Horse had in the years that they published the title. I was astonished.
|
|
|
Post by Sangria Sword on Mar 5, 2019 11:11:31 GMT -5
Huh. I haven't read Roy's work for Dark Horse, I'm only familiar with his work for Marvel. However, I would still like a Conan pastiche wrote by Roy. Sounds like his Dark Horse run was a misfire, it happens.
|
|
|
Post by mindboggled on Mar 5, 2019 17:18:58 GMT -5
I don't think I can bring myself to finish The Valorous! It started off pretty fun....but further on, it's flaws start to show. Roberts has a decent handle on the characterization of Conan(albeit to talkative and a little to chivalrous) he's got the character down. But Robert's prose is where the problem lies, it's the exact opposite of Howard's prose! Plain,simple and straightforward-lacking artistic flare. Conan takes up a side quest along the main one, this side quest takes up around a third of the books pages. And it does not seem to have any impact on the main story line, it practically could have been a separate book. The Valorous has it's moments, but overall feels cheap; just like most prose Conan pastiches I've read-Nothing more than fluff or popcorn entertainment. I might not try The Rogue-even tho it's already on it's way. Hi if you dont have more patience reading roberts tales then you are just letting yourself down, and MISSING a lot of good /great conan stuff. i understand your confusion with the extra [added] tale part. often, Tor books would ask the writers for extra bits [ to fill the novels to a set length ] the writers did not like doing that, and roberts usually clearly shows the readers that the imposed extra section is not part of his main tale. [ i understand his silent protest. ] valourous and rogue are both very good books. all roberts conan are far better than most of the slop that tor churned out on their conveyor belt. rogue depicts conan at his most clever and cunning. it is well liked. >>>> Tips for reading pastiches: do not compare the tale to REH [ that is pointless and an insult to the pastiche writer ] I just compare a pastiche tale with other pastiches. that makes a fair comparison . i am more interested in the plot content than the style of writing. if its a good story then the style does not matter. over 75% of the conan pastiches are very poor sloppy crapp. BUT the BEST pastiches are often superb, magnificent, clever plots and mighty conan at his best. if you read /ask in this forum, then we can guide you to the best pastiches? dont order books blind. [ reading too many crappy tales will turn you into a gibbering jelly! ] I could have used any other author that I like, I was not saying Robert should try to imitate Howard, simple that do not like Robert's prose. If I were to compare The Valarous to other pastiches I have read (which is not many) it's still not good in my opinion. I've read Conan And The sorcerer, Road Of Kings and The Magnificent-they each have their own flaws, but I like them for various reasons on different levels. Prose not to my liking can greatly hamper my enjoyment of a book; although a very good story and characterization can overrule that! In The Valarous, after Conan returns to Cimmeria the book becomes very cheesy for me. Something about Conan interacting with his kin is insufferably corny to me-only in this book tho, I liked it in the Dark Horse comics when Timothy Truman and Kurt Busiek were writing. I will give The Rogue a fair chance, But I have a hunch that Robert's pastiches are not for me. Btw I don't buy pastiches willy nilly, I have done a a ton of research.
|
|
|
Post by mindboggled on Mar 5, 2019 17:33:37 GMT -5
I like most pastiches. I advise staying away from Roland Green and Steve Perry. Perry is a good writer--I've read some of his other stuff. But, he just doesn't know Conan. He treats Conan like a D&D tale. Roland Green is just awful. I've never been able to get through one of his books. One more I'd mention is Leonard Carpenter. He's a prolific Conan writer, and he seems to know his Conan lore. He gets the details correct. But, I don't really think the guy knows how to write. He bores me. Many of his have interesting plots that are just destroyed by Carpenter's bland prose. Still, Carpenter is better at Conan than either Green or Perry. To summarize: Leonard Carpenter gets Conan and the Hyborian Age, but he writes a boring tale. Steve Perry is the best writer out of these three (the worst Conan pastiche writers, imo), but he doesn't understand Conan or the Hyborian Age at all. Reading one of Perry's four Conan novels is akin to reading a generic fantasy book. Roland Green: If you see his name on the cover, throw it down and run! Anybody else, I typically enjoy. Sure, there are some bad apples in an otherwise good bunch, like L. Sprague De Camp's Conan and the Spider God as opposed to most of De Camp's other Conan work. And, still, I'd take Spider God over any of the three above. De Camp's stuff, I do typically like. If you asked me who I like best, of the pastiche writers, I wouldn't hesitate to put John Maddox Roberts and Robert Jordan at the top (neither one of which writes exactly like Howard). I already know which ones to avoid like the black plague. I'am actually not that much into the idea of prose pastiches anyway, so I will probably skip almost all of them. The only one left unread out of the bunch that I genuinely desire to read is The Emerald Lotus, besides that I think I will skip everything.
|
|
|
Post by buxom9sorceress on Mar 6, 2019 1:15:08 GMT -5
I like most pastiches. I advise staying away from Roland Green and Steve Perry. Perry is a good writer--I've read some of his other stuff. But, he just doesn't know Conan. He treats Conan like a D&D tale.... I already know which ones to avoid like the black plague. I'am actually not that much into the idea of prose pastiches anyway, so I will probably skip almost all of them.... So you are not really interested in pastiches? >>>> A lot of the best pastiches are as good as many REH tales. And several of them are even better than many REH tales. I was amazed and delighted to read discover the very best pastiches: wonderful high quality works by massively talented keen Fans of REH-Conan. just stick to your REH tales. then you wont have to moan about other great writers of conan adventures.
|
|