Weapon Metallurgy: History and Shoptalk (swords, etc...)

[kemp]

This is probably Japan's version of the really big fighting sword, those late medieval central European Zweihanders and Scottish Claymores.

The Norimitsu Odachi, Japan's longest sword measuring 377 cm and weighing 14.5 kg, probably the largest sword ever forged on Japan's soil. It was made in the 15th century by master swordsmith Osafune Norimitsu.



Considering the size of the sword it might have also been used for ceremonial or ornamental purposes.

random-times.com/2019/01/11/norimitsu-odachi-japans-longest-sword-measured-377-cm-and-weighed-14-5-kg/#:~:text=Travel%E2%80%A2History-,Norimitsu%20Odachi%3A%20Japan's%20Longest%20Sword%20measured,Cm%20and%20weighed%2014.5%20Kg.&text=The%20Norimitsu%20Odachi%20is%20a,ever%20forged%20on%20Japanese%20soil

This short and fanciful video imagines the sword being wielded by a giant 8 foot tall samurai. Fun nonsense.

[darthgall]

Hey Gang,

Thought I'd ask some practical advice/experience here.
I need sharpening solution and want to get the right thing the first time rather than cheap garbage from amazon that breaks on third use...

Parameters:
-This is to sharpen stuff that gets used and abused. I will probably never spend over $100 on a blade.
-Universal - something I can use on axe as well as kitchen knives
-$100 or less
-No oil; something I can do with water or dry
-I have SOME Patience to learn technique, but I'm not going to spend hours a week learning how to freehand... want to learn how to sharpen my stuff, execute, and be done with it until it needs to be sharpened again

So I'm looking at these two options:
Worksharp Guided combo set:
www.worksharptools.com/shop/sharpeners/manual/guided-sharpening-system/
Or this:
www.worksharptools.com/shop/sharpeners/manual/benchstone-knife-sharpener/

Or something like a DMT duo coarse/fine diamond stone (shows $125 on website but I swear I saw it for $85 somewhere...)
www.dmtsharp.com/sharpeners/bench-stones/duo-sharp-bench-stone.html

Let me know what works best for you!

[kemp]

Dec 23, 2020 18:14:27 GMT -5 darthgall said:

Hey Gang,

Thought I'd ask some practical advice/experience here.
I need sharpening solution and want to get the right thing the first time rather than cheap garbage from amazon that breaks on third use...

Parameters:
-This is to sharpen stuff that gets used and abused. I will probably never spend over $100 on a blade.
-Universal - something I can use on axe as well as kitchen knives
-$100 or less
-No oil; something I can do with water or dry
-I have SOME Patience to learn technique, but I'm not going to spend hours a week learning how to freehand... want to learn how to sharpen my stuff, execute, and be done with it until it needs to be sharpened again

So I'm looking at these two options:
Worksharp Guided combo set:
www.worksharptools.com/shop/sharpeners/manual/guided-sharpening-system/
Or this:
www.worksharptools.com/shop/sharpeners/manual/benchstone-knife-sharpener/

Or something like a DMT duo coarse/fine diamond stone (shows $125 on website but I swear I saw it for $85 somewhere...)
www.dmtsharp.com/sharpeners/bench-stones/duo-sharp-bench-stone.html

Let me know what works best for you!

I have read some good things about Worksharp, but never used them so will not comment on their effectiveness or the pivot response system.

Darthgall, free hand sharpening is not all that difficult to learn, one of those feel skills. Actually, you will have fun and get good edges with a little practise. The key is to keep the same angle as you sharpen, rather than a specified angle. 

Looking at your options I would go with DMT, from the DMT site, Dia sharp only because I have used them and they work for me.

www.dmtsharp.com/sharpeners/bench-stones/dia-sharp-bench-stone.html

There are other diamond plates outfits like Atoma, but I never used them and would stick with the tried and true DMT. My DMT XXC for really rough work is still going after ten years of use, and I use it to flatten waterstones, and on a rare occasion to create an edge on some forged work, but at that coarse of a level would not recommend for general touch up sharpening. For that go with coarse 325 and fine 600 DMT. I use the 8 x 3 size.

[kemp]

My preference is for diamond hones and waterstones. I sharpen kitchen knives, hatchet, swords and some simple carbon steel knives I forged out of 1084/1095 steel.

Hate to sound like an advertisement, but for free hand sharpening do yourself a favour and get some Shapton professional waterstones. These are no nonsense splash and go, that is, splash a little water on the stone and you are good to go. A little pricey, but they will last a long time.

Get the general Shapton professional 1000 grit stone ( orange ), good for moderately dull knives, or even touch ups. This cuts fast. You will not be disappointed. I love this stone so much I will get another just to keep as a spare, especially since I found out about a place in Aus that sells em. 






Description of the stone

www.japanesetools.com.au/products/shapton-professional-sharpening-stone-1000

[kemp]

I have bought stuff from these guys, even from Australia, the shipping is not too bad.

www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Shapton-Kuromaku-Professional-Stones-P1548C84.aspx

For very dull or nicked edges you can use something like a coarse Shapton pro 320 or DMT Dia sharp 325 grit.
I do. 

www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-8-Dia-Sharp-Diamond-Stone-P7C3.aspx

I love the diamond stones for very dull edges, and prefer the waterstones for moderately dull or fine work. I usually strop an edge with trailing strokes on the 1000 stone or use my fine Shapton Pro 5000 stone for those razor edges.

The above is what I use, what works foe me, the DMT's and the Shaptons. I have tried other lines, including oilstones years ago, but prefer these for efficiency. 

[charleshelm]

For sharpening I use this most of the time:

www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=77

I have a diamond steel for touch ups in the field.

I also picked up the ultra fine and diamond rods for the Sharpmaker.

The Worksharp has excellent buzz but I've never used it.

[kemp]

Sharpening is something most of us do, especially if we want our blades to keep cutting in the kitchen, for backyard/camping duties, or just for slaying water filled plastic bottles with our trusty 'Excalibur'.

This is one of the better no nonsense videos that I found on sharpening techniques some time back. Had this initially on the youtube thread, but I think it would be fine dropping it on this one too. I have sharpened on waterstones for years, my choice of sharpening media.

'Whetstone Sharpening Mistakes that Most Beginners Make'

[kemp]

Medieval European sword and knife sharpening

[kemp]

Feudal Japanese sword sharpening/polishing.



Still practised by some 

[kemp]

Probably the best free hand sharpening 'how to' videos  for the absolute beginner. I found these really helpful in terms of keeping consistent angles to achieve those sharp paper cutting edges. 



'3 SHARPENING TIPS BEGINNERS MUST KNOW. How to sharpen a knife'



'KNIFE SHARPENING TIPS BEGINNERS MUST KNOW 2 | HOW TO MAINTAIN AN ANGLE'

Both are by 'OUTDOORS55'

My 'KISS' ( Keep It Simple Stupid ) is to sharpen a moderately dull edge and strop it afterwards to keep that edge sharp, when the edge is losing it's sting and no amount of stropping will help, or has dulled from much usage, that's when I go back to the sharpening routine with my 1000 grit waterstone ( or coarser stone for heavy abuse ) to get that edge back. 

In the video he strops on a leather backed strop, but I just found a pine lumber cut off to work best for me. I don't know, maybe the soft wood is grabby.  Whatever medium does the job for you is the right one. 

[kemp]

Sharpening a sword, by the artist Huang Ji during the Ming Dynasty. Palace Museum, Beijing.

[kemp]

'Medieval sword unearthed in Poland might be from Battle of Grunwald'

'A man using a metal detector has unearthed a medieval sword that might have served as a weapon during the Battle of Grunwald in 1410.

The person who carried the sword might have been one of roughly 66,000 people who clashed at the Battle of Grunwald on July 15, 1410, according to Encyclopedia Britannica. The battle, fought near the Polish villages of Stębark (also known as Tannenberg), Grunwald and Ludwigsdorf, ended with a Polish-Lithuanian victory over the Knights of the Teutonic Order, which was founded during the Crusades to the Holy Land and later came to rule over what was then Prussia.'

www.livescience.com/sword-poland-battle-of-grunwald.html

[kemp]

Even in its pitted and rusted condition the blade exhibits some good design characteristics of an aesthetically pleasing sword from the late medieval, notably the very subtle curve of the cross guard and the cut and thrust design of the blade itself. The pommel would aid in the handling of the weapon, keeping the center of balance closer to the hilt. 



I have previously looked at eastern European medieval swords, with particular reference to the book ‘Medieval Swords from Southeastern Europe’ by Marko Aleksic.This covered medieval swords mainly from the Balkans, but had some reference to central Europe and Poland.

In the future it might be interesting to cover the medieval weapons of north eastern Europe in greater detail, in particular Poland, the Baltic states and also Russia.

Battle of Grunwald 1410. In the middle the Polish knight and nobleman Zawisza Czarny charging on Teutonic Knights.

[kemp]

Forged in Fire: Barbarian Sword Tests (Season 6) | History

Two beautiful Barbarian swords are put through three punishing tests to see which bladesmiths will be crowned Forged in Fire Champion in this clip from Season 6, "Barbarian Sword".




I love this show, mainly due to my interest in blacksmithing and ancient weapons. Available through Amazon for a modest cost. I'm currently watching season 6. 

[kemp]

Cane swords, conjures up images of Sherlock Holmes and Victorian era foggy London streets, at least for me.