Weapon Metallurgy: History and Shoptalk (swords, etc...)

[kemp]

Jul 19, 2023 21:41:55 GMT -5 Von K said:

I think you're right about mimicing the weight kemp. Might also explain the very long hilts and large pommels that many of these tend to have.

Astute observation in regards to the large pommels and hilts. 

Talking about training equipment, the HEMA synthetic sparring swords might be another option these days, they have even taken into account POB ( point of balance ) 

www.thehemashop.com/longsword

[Von K]

Jul 19, 2023 23:00:22 GMT -5 kemp said:

Jul 19, 2023 21:41:55 GMT -5 Von K said:

I think you're right about mimicing the weight kemp. Might also explain the very long hilts and large pommels that many of these tend to have.

Astute observation in regards to the large pommels and hilts. 

Talking about training equipment, the HEMA synthetic sparring swords might be another option these days, they have even taken into account POB ( point of balance ) 

www.thehemashop.com/longsword

Thanks kemp, they look like decent pieces of kit. Get quite a good sense of what to expect from the reviews.

PS check out the Witcher thread where Jason just posted the first S3 fight breakdown with Henry Cavill and Wolfgang Stegemann.

[Von K]

Forged Iron Sword vs. Cast Bronze Sword

Beginning up to 16.30 = smelting, casting and forging of the blades.

From 16.45 = the actual sword vs sword test.

[kemp]

Jul 21, 2023 12:46:39 GMT -5 Von K said:

Forged Iron Sword vs. Cast Bronze Sword

Beginning up to 16.30 = smelting, casting and forging of the blades.

From 16.45 = the actual sword vs sword test.

Interesting comparison, everything else being equal it seems that both the bronze and steel sword handled in a similar way against lighter targets such as bone and coconut, which may or may not emulate some lightly armoured opponents.

Where the major and significant difference came from was when the bronze sword was pitted against the steel sword, the bronze blade suffering major nicks and bends in comparison to the steel sword. The toughness and resilience of a sufficiently hardened steel sword was the historical game changer. I use the term 'steel sword' lightly here, and include of course the 'steeled' iron sword and iron swords with mildly hardened edges.

[Jason Aiken]

It looks like this guy has some interesting sabre videos:

[kemp]

Check out this recent one. In the last few days re edged some of my blades, which made me think of some of the vids that I have been viewing, regular with OUTDOORS55, in my opinion some of the best out there when it comes to instructional content on sharpening and other blade related material.

[kemp]

I included this one some time back, but I think it's a great compliment to the above video. 

[Von K]

Great tips. I guess this kind of advice will always be relevant until the advent of monomolecular blades (or blade edges).

[kemp]

Interesting, a blade with a cutting edge that is only a few atoms thick, how would that handle !?!. I read that the sharpest edge came off an obsidian knife, sharper than the keenest steel scalpel. Too brittle for a large knife/sword, but I can see the benefits for small cutting implements/surgical instruments and some industrial applications.





There are claims that a well made obsidian blade will cut between cells rather than tear the cells as steel knives do, but in all honesty that me be a myth, like the one about a Damascus scimitar that was so sharp that it cut a floating silk scarf that was dropped onto it.

I think the beauty of steel is that it can be a high impact material, that is perfect for edged weapons such as arrow heads, throwing knives, spears, large knives and swords, axes, and of course various modern applications such as leaf springs in cars and trucks.

[Von K]

As far as I know an obsidian edge is sharper than a flint edge, perhaps due to differences in the molecular structure. The ancient South American cultures had a whole variety of obsidian tools and uses for them. Once one was blunted the only way to sharpen it would be to re chip the blade edge with some kind of knapping technique.

Those monomolecular blades are just a sci-fi trope at present, like in the Warhammer 40k universe among others.

[kemp]

Dec 26, 2023 14:05:24 GMT -5 Von K said:

As far as I know an obsidian edge is sharper than a flint edge, perhaps due to differences in the molecular structure. The ancient South American cultures had a whole variety of obsidian tools and uses for them. Once one was blunted the only way to sharpen it would be to re chip the blade edge with some kind of knapping technique.

Those monomolecular blades are just a sci-fi trope at present, like in the Warhammer 40k universe among others.

Reminds me of those Aztec club swords, they would have delivered some devastating damage. 

 

[kemp]

I recently inspected the edge on a dagger I forged years ago, I included the pic of my blade on this thread some pages back. Still keen, I had utilised a fine diamond to get the results I was after.

So it made me consider an instructional I had watched some time back, one by Jason Knight, master bladesmith, was also a judge on the Forged in Fire series for a few seasons.



As a side note, check out the camp knife 15 min into it, looks like something Conan would use in the Pictish wilderness.

[Von K]

Jan 4, 2024 20:39:25 GMT -5 kemp said:

I recently inspected the edge on a dagger I forged years ago, I included the pic of my blade on this thread some pages back. Still keen, I had utilised a fine diamond to get the results I was after.

So it made me consider an instructional I had watched some time back, one by Jason Knight, master bladesmith, was also a judge on the Forged in Fire series for a few seasons.



As a side note, check out the camp knife 15 min into it, looks like something Conan would use in the Pictish wilderness.

Great vid kemp, thanks!

I agree that Conan would feel right at home with that kind of camp knife/recurve blade. Kind of midway between a Falcata and a kukri in size and design. Though as I said back then, I think he'd have been perfectly happy with your own knife too.

Re those Aztec weapons, forget what they are called but seem to remember a reference in an old Spanish account of an Aztec warrior hewing the head off a conquistador's horse with one of those.

[kemp]

Perhaps that is not too far off from reality.


I can only imagine the hewing damage that would inflict on anyone receiving a full blow from one of those war club/swords. 

[Von K]

Jan 16, 2024 18:36:19 GMT -5 kemp said:

Perhaps that is not too far off from reality.


I can only imagine the hewing damage that would inflict on anyone receiving a full blow from one of those war club/swords. 

If my faulty memory was exaggerating, kemp, it was certainly not by much, but your observations are quite correct:

“Dreadful Broadswords”: The Aztec Macauahuitl

But perhaps the most fearsome, well-known, and most specialized Aztec instrument of death was the “macauahuitl,” a club weapon favored by elite warriors. It was a wooden bat around 70 centimeters long and contained a set of 6 to 8 serrated obsidian blades on each side, and in the surviving eyewitness accounts was commonly compared to the Spanish two-handed sword because of its wieldy nature. There was also a smaller version called the “macuahuilzoctli,” which possessed 4 blades and measured around 50cm long.

The macauahuitl was famed for its destructive potential which was documented widely by Spanish commentators. Jose de Acosta, remarked how:

“This weapon was so fierce that they claimed with one stroke they could chop off a horse’s head, cutting right through the neck”.

Many Spanish soldiers reportedly witnessed this phenomenon first-hand. Andres de Tapia recounted how:

“As the Spaniards tried to capture one of them to find out where they were from, the Indians with two blows of their swords killed two horses”.

Bernal Diaz, recalling the gallantry of Pedro de Moron, who charged the Aztecs with his horse before falling down and making a quick getaway, commented on the fate of the rider’s horse:

“Then they slashed at his mare, cutting her head at the neck so that it only hung by the skin”.

Can find more references on the source page here: www.ancient-origins.net/artifacts-ancient-technology/aztec-weapons-0016599

The sharp edge is only good for a couple of blows, after that it's just a glorified club.

I suspect you'd prefer a good Toledo blade, as would I.