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Post by scottoden on Jun 8, 2021 13:50:21 GMT -5
Right now, the working title is "The Night of the Serpent" (a play on The Hour of the Dragon and KEW's aborted "The Day of the Lion"). It is the tale of how Shevatas came into possession of the iron-bound books of Vathelos the Blind (hint: he stole them), and his preliminary work on the greatest heist of his career: the sack of Thugra Khotan's tomb in Kuthchemes . . . Basically, Shevatas versus the Black Ring of Stygia . . . In true REH fashion, I'm not offering an origin story of any sort, beyond hints here and there as to where he's from and how he got here. Thanks for the mention, Alexander! |
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Post by johnnypt on Jun 9, 2021 8:43:49 GMT -5
Right now, the working title is "The Night of the Serpent" (a play on The Hour of the Dragon and KEW's aborted "The Day of the Lion"). It is the tale of how Shevatas came into possession of the iron-bound books of Vathelos the Blind (hint: he stole them), and his preliminary work on the greatest heist of his career: the sack of Thugra Khotan's tomb in Kuthchemes . . . Basically, Shevatas versus the Black Ring of Stygia . . . In true REH fashion, I'm not offering an origin story of any sort, beyond hints here and there as to where he's from and how he got here. Thanks for the mention, Alexander! Sounds very cool Scott, can't wait! |
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Post by Von K on Jun 12, 2021 16:57:58 GMT -5
Great to read that Grimnir 3 is close to completion Scott. I remember when you used to share some of your initial conceptions with us on the old message board and soon you'll have a whole trilogy behind you.
I also remember you gathering notes for a Shevatas yarn way back then.
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Post by scottoden on Jun 12, 2021 17:28:29 GMT -5
I am *nothing* if not slower than dirt  |
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Post by Von K on Jun 13, 2021 19:30:02 GMT -5
Time spent in preparation and research is half of victory. I have often wondered - does pastiche have even more stringent considerations than historical fiction, when adherence to canon becomes as important as fidelity to historical detail? You are one of the few writers to have direct professional experience of writing both. Your blog series on the Art of Pastiche leads me to believe that it is indeed harder in that there are so many additional factors to take into account. |
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Post by scottoden on Jun 13, 2021 21:41:16 GMT -5
It wasn't necessarily harder, but it was different. I think what helped me was keeping it in my mind that REH wasn't writing fantasy (as we know it) when he wrote Conan. He was writing historical fiction with a twist. "Historical fantasy" they might call it today. With very few exceptions, *everything* he wrote was some manner of historical fiction. So, in Conan, when you come up against a canonical wall the best thing the writer can do is to look at the problem through an historical lens. What did REH intend? What were his inspirations for this nation or that? What might his letters have to say about X or Y? How can you lift from X or Y and make it something logical for the Hyborian Age? So, it's a different sort of historical research.
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Post by darthgall on Jun 14, 2021 10:25:33 GMT -5
It wasn't necessarily harder, but it was different. I think what helped me was keeping it in my mind that REH wasn't writing fantasy (as we know it) when he wrote Conan. He was writing historical fiction with a twist. "Historical fantasy" they might call it today. With very few exceptions, *everything* he wrote was some manner of historical fiction. So, in Conan, when you come up against a canonical wall the best thing the writer can do is to look at the problem through an historical lens. What did REH intend? What were his inspirations for this nation or that? What might his letters have to say about X or Y? How can you lift from X or Y and make it something logical for the Hyborian Age? So, it's a different sort of historical research. I'm not REH or Conan expert by any means, but I know there's a few different "Conan timelines" out there that have some discrepancies as far as chronological order, etc. I'm curious (if you're allowed to reveal) if anyone at any point said "We recognize this timeline as official" or they said they favored one, or if it didn't matter, or if they were just like "just write the story and we'll figure timeline insertion later", or if you had to appear before a tribunal of wizened REH Scholars and get approval  -Mick. |
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Post by scottoden on Jun 14, 2021 10:57:50 GMT -5
Me, personally, I use the Miller/Clark chronology with the letter REH wrote in response, and with ONLY REH's stories as canon. It was a lot looser in form than you might think. I decided where I wanted to write a story, what tales to draw from, and let Fred and crew know what I had in mind via a synopsis. They approved it, and I went to work. I had to get Fred's permission to use the Yaralet Fragment as part of "Conan Unconquered", and Rusty Burke graciously sent me an electronic copy so I wouldn't have to re-type it all into Word. After that, I'd get editorial notes from Howard Jones, who was editing for Perilous Worlds at the time, or from Mark Basso at Marvel (for the novella). No wizened tribunals, alas! |
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Post by Von K on Jun 15, 2021 17:41:40 GMT -5
It wasn't necessarily harder, but it was different. I think what helped me was keeping it in my mind that REH wasn't writing fantasy (as we know it) when he wrote Conan. He was writing historical fiction with a twist. "Historical fantasy" they might call it today. With very few exceptions, *everything* he wrote was some manner of historical fiction. So, in Conan, when you come up against a canonical wall the best thing the writer can do is to look at the problem through an historical lens. What did REH intend? What were his inspirations for this nation or that? What might his letters have to say about X or Y? How can you lift from X or Y and make it something logical for the Hyborian Age? So, it's a different sort of historical research. I see what you mean. Maybe as much Historical Fantasy as he could get away with plus enough Weird elements for him to market it to Weird Tales? I sometimes wonder if the reason Black Stranger was rejected was because there weren't enough weird elements in it for Farnsworth Wright's editorial taste. REH came under fire from some of the Weird Tales writers for sometimes being too heavy on blood and thunder in their opinion. Derleth, Lovecraft and Smith I believe made comments along those lines in their correspondence if I remember correctly. So if REH's best medium was Historical Fantasy** I get the impression he'd be just as happy to have written pure Historical Fantasy yarns featuring Conan with no weird stuff in it, but there were no markets for that in his day. Kind of closer in content to the yarns that DeCamp converted from ElBorak yarns, which contained no weird stuff. Those conversions never quite worked as Conan yarns due to certain period anomalies and character differences Do you think that a pastiche Conan yarn written as pure Historical Hyborian Age Fantasy with no weird element would still be a Conan yarn, or does it still need that weird twist to be truly authentic Conan? **Just to clarify – I mean the best medium between what he preferred to write – Historical Fiction (as you have observed) – plus the financial need to write faster than he could write pure Historical Fiction (thus the Hyborian Age fantasy element). But since there were no markets for that he had to also season it with weird tale elements to sell to his primary market. Hope I'm not getting too convoluted. |
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Post by scottoden on Jun 15, 2021 19:26:20 GMT -5
Von K wrote:
(Emphasis mine) See, the thing is, the Weird elements are what made his work Historical Fantasy. Conan without the Weird -- without the sorcerers, the beasts, the eldritch horrors (or at least, the threat of them) -- is just plain adventure yarns about a wandering barbarian. Good, but not really the spirit of Conan. IMO, Cormac FitzGeoffrey is Conan without the Weird . . . a damn fine story, but doesn't quite scratch the itch.
From his letters, Howard would have been happy as a clam to have had a career similar to Harold Lamb's -- pure historical fiction, mixed with blood and thunder biographies of those historical worthies who most attracted his attention. I would have loved to have read a biography of Baibars by REH. I'd bet it would have played up his barbarian heritage, his thunderous aspect, and probably made him a Muslim-in-name-only in order to play up the heathen from the fringes role he so loved to depict. But, for whatever reason he couldn't get traction with Adventure. So, he turned to Weird Tales, Oriental Stories, and wherever else he could find.
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Post by Von K on Jun 17, 2021 20:33:56 GMT -5
Thank you for your perspectives Scott!
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Post by gary on Jan 30, 2024 3:23:56 GMT -5
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Post by alexander on Jan 30, 2024 7:55:49 GMT -5
Best Conan pastiche I've read - and I've read a lot - by far
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Post by salant on Jan 30, 2024 8:27:31 GMT -5
Great review, Gary! I completely agree. Titan / Heroic should offer Oden more Conan work ASAP! |
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Post by Von K on Jan 30, 2024 18:39:28 GMT -5
Great review Gary, thanks.
Scott puts a lot of work, study and thought into his Howardian pastiche and it shows.
Here's a review of Shadow of Vengeance and an interview with Scott from 2019 when it was first published. His approach to maintaining REH's original canon has remained consistent over the years, which adds to the authenticity of tone:
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