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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2019 12:51:29 GMT -5
sorcerer, what is your endgame here? From this and other posts of yours, it would seem you would like us all to admit "Gee, Howard wasn't all that great." I can tell that you all continue to think this, and it's disappointing. I wouldn't have made such an earnest study of his techniques if I didn't think Howard the writer was great. I've written this already, and it shouldn't require any reiteration. And while I had no endgame in making this thread, I was hoping to see that this board was ready to tolerate what I actually thought and felt without a thick filter, and I can see that the answer is unfortunately "no."
Nevertheless, I've sincerely enjoyed my time here, not only because it's been very useful, but because I've developed a real fondness for all of you. Unfortunately every time I've wanted to communicate things I learned studying Howard, I could sense I was brushing up against sensitivities that I simply don't share. In many cases to avoid offense this meant I've had to tiptoe (some of this reached levels that in retrospect were hilarious, although those were mostly in a thread that's now deleted), or else resulted in a kind of careful speaking out of the side of my mouth that I've done here.
It's this last way of speaking sideways which - though intended to be a gentle way of expressing something you would all find stark - may be why hun and deepermagic think my take on Howard's suicide is strange. If you really wonder what I meant by my previous question about what Conan would do, that was an attempt to press the comparison between the values that emerge from Howard's Conan (and other) stories, and Howard's character and behavior. Although I'm still circling the issue, I'll make one last attempt by analogy:
We may not care particularly if a man cheats on his wife. But when a renowned preacher whose sermons on monogamy elevate and inspire us is revealed to have several mistresses, our reaction will understandably be different. We may not stop caring about his sermons, but our sense of him as a person will probably change. Likewise our attitude towards members of his flock who reinterpret, explain away, or try to claim the issue of his mistresses is "complex" might very well be tinged with a certain wry humor!
I'll conclude by thanking you all for broadening my appreciation of Howard and his writing, particularly ChrisLAdams and Von K who took a great deal of time publicly and in private messages to point out things I wasn't aware of before. I may well return someday.
Until then, farewell!
Hello Sorcerer. I do not disagree completely with what you wanna say. But if you look back at some of your earlier posts, you appear to demonstrate a lack of consideration towards other forum members that have embraced the world of Robert E. Howard (I'm not accusing you of this, just saying it could appear that way). It probably has a lot to do with the way you have decided to express yourself in previous posts. It may also (I'm only guessing here) appear to some forum members here that you are not only attacking certain aspects of REH as an individual but also the fans of REH. ...and I'll add that you're perfectly entitled to criticise REH and his work. Suicide and depression cannot be easily dismissed, it's a very serious and complex subject and you should not be surprised that some will disagree with you - some through their love of REH and some through their own experiences in life. This is something you should be aware of, life can be real tough sometimes. This is the Swords of REH forum after all so it will not surprise you to find bewilderment and resistance from some members. I imagine not all members idolise REH - some love the characters (especially Conan) created by REH, some the actual prose, some the comics, by Crom and Tengri some even love the Conan pastiche work of De Camp. The members on this forum are from all over the planet, from different backgrounds, age groups, ethnicities and all have different views on a number of subjects. We all share the love of REH and his creations? If you can only appreciate certain elements of his work, that's fine - you do not have to idolise REH to be here. I'm sorry if I have made you feel unwelcome here in any way. That was not my intention.
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Post by stubbs on Oct 12, 2019 14:20:17 GMT -5
Personal attitudes towards Howard aside, suicide is almost consistently the terminal result of longstanding illness. Just because that illness is mental, does not make the death any more a sign of weakness, or any less a tragedy than dying from terminal cancer, or any other illness. Suicide is the leading cause of death for men under fifty in the UK and under 35 in the US. Thankfully, unlike in Howard’s time depression and other mental illness which can lead to suicide is now better understood and better treated. However, fears about what others might think often leads to men not seeking out this help, increasing the chance they will die. People should not be discouraged from seeking help by suggestions that suicide or suicidal thoughts are signs of weakness.
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Post by kemp on Oct 14, 2019 8:44:14 GMT -5
sorcerer, what is your endgame here? From this and other posts of yours, it would seem you would like us all to admit "Gee, Howard wasn't all that great." I can tell that you all continue to think this, and it's disappointing. I wouldn't have made such an earnest study of his techniques if I didn't think Howard the writer was great. I've written this already, and it shouldn't require any reiteration. And while I had no endgame in making this thread, I was hoping to see that this board was ready to tolerate what I actually thought and felt without a thick filter, and I can see that the answer is unfortunately "no."
Nevertheless, I've sincerely enjoyed my time here, not only because it's been very useful, but because I've developed a real fondness for all of you. Unfortunately every time I've wanted to communicate things I learned studying Howard, I could sense I was brushing up against sensitivities that I simply don't share. In many cases to avoid offense this meant I've had to tiptoe (some of this reached levels that in retrospect were hilarious, although those were mostly in a thread that's now deleted), or else resulted in a kind of careful speaking out of the side of my mouth that I've done here.
It's this last way of speaking sideways which - though intended to be a gentle way of expressing something you would all find stark - may be why hun and deepermagic think my take on Howard's suicide is strange. If you really wonder what I meant by my previous question about what Conan would do, that was an attempt to press the comparison between the values that emerge from Howard's Conan (and other) stories, and Howard's character and behavior. Although I'm still circling the issue, I'll make one last attempt by analogy:
We may not care particularly if a man cheats on his wife. But when a renowned preacher whose sermons on monogamy elevate and inspire us is revealed to have several mistresses, our reaction will understandably be different. We may not stop caring about his sermons, but our sense of him as a person will probably change. Likewise our attitude towards members of his flock who reinterpret, explain away, or try to claim the issue of his mistresses is "complex" might very well be tinged with a certain wry humor!
I'll conclude by thanking you all for broadening my appreciation of Howard and his writing, particularly ChrisLAdams and Von K who took a great deal of time publicly and in private messages to point out things I wasn't aware of before. I may well return someday.
Until then, farewell!
I guess some people ( right or wrong ) probably felt that you were making a general judgement of REH based on that very unfortunate episode at the end of his life, Don't let yourself feel chagrined by the different opinions. Anyway, thanks for your contributions on the civilisation thread mate.
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Post by korak on Oct 25, 2019 14:09:57 GMT -5
Ladies, gentlemen, and distinguished others,
Over the past several weeks you've gotten to know me well enough to understand I do not come here as a troll specifically to offend your sensibilities. Yet, though I have thus far avoided it, seldom have I not wondered why it is that you lionize this man so unreservedly. I do enjoy Robert Howard's stories, not only on their own, but because they have an energy and simplicity that my own writing has often lacked; he writes things that are, to me, difficult to write.
Yet though I may respect him as a writer, there seems little for me to respect as a person, beyond his understanding of anthropology and friendship with Lovecraft. So far as I can determine, he was a moody, superstitious fellow with little philosophical or political development beyond raw instinct. If he were more like the characters in his stories it would be much easier for me to respect him, but the person he was and the person he wished to be seem to be two very different things. Robert Howard liked to put up a brave front and write stories about powerful men, but in reality he was a very little man who shot himself over the passing of his mother, leaving father and friends behind. . Academic really REH for all his faults was an epic being who I feel was probably born waaaaayyyyy out of the proper time for him.He is and was more then the tragic event that claimed his life and we fans of his realize that which is why we Lionize REH
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