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Post by deuce on Oct 26, 2016 20:53:48 GMT -5
There are plenty of incidents and whatnot referred to in Howard's Conan yarns that I've never seen developed by pasticheurs. Here's one from Black Colossus: She could dimly see that Conan still sat on the boulder; she glimpsed the long blue glimmer of his blade. Close beside him crouched another figure, on which the dying fire cast a faint glow. Yasmela drowsily made out a hooked beak of a nose, a glittering bead of an eye, under a white turban. The man was speaking rapidly in a Shemite dialect she found hard to understand.
“Let Bel wither my arm! I speak truth! By Derketo, Conan, I am a prince of liars, but I do not lie to an old comrade. I swear by the days when we were thieves together in the land of Zamora, before you donned hauberk!
“I saw Natohk; with the others I knelt before him when he made incantations to Set. But I did not thrust my nose in the sand as the rest did. I am a thief of Shumir, and my sight is keener than a weasel’s. I squinted up and saw his veil blowing in the wind. It blew aside, and I saw – I saw – Bel aid me, Conan, I say I saw! My blood froze in my veins and my hair stood up. What I had seen burned my soul like a red-hot iron. I could not rest until I had made sure.
“I journeyed to the ruins of Kuthchemes. The door of the ivory dome stood open; in the doorway lay a great serpent, transfixed by a sword. Within the dome lay the body of a man, so shrivelled and distorted I could scarce make it out at first – it was Shevatas, the Zamorian, the only thief in the world I acknowledged as my superior."While the thief from Shumir is unnamed by REH, it's obvious that said thief was a fairly decent buddy of the Cimmerian back in their Zamora days. Conan trusts him and the Shumiri definitely does Conan a good turn by revealing Natohk's true identity. Plus, Conan doesn't contradict the thief's boasting, so I'd say the Shumiri was a damned good thief. Have any pasticheurs included this guy in tales of Conan's "Zamoran" period? I don't think even Roy Thomas picked up on this sticky-fingered Shumiri. What other "lost tales" and cool characters in Howard's Conan stories have been ignored by pasticheurs over the years? I can think of several more.
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Post by lordyam on Oct 27, 2016 16:43:53 GMT -5
I actually wanted to include the guy in a tv outline. The goal was that he'd be Conan's mentor (teaching Conan the tricks of the trade); Conan being wet behind the ears could have used a teacher
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Post by thedarkman on Oct 27, 2016 20:37:40 GMT -5
This is a pretty cool idea. And, it would make for a great anthology collection; short stories based on secondary characters and situations found in the original Howard Conan tales and fragments. "Tales of Robert E Howard's Hyborian Age". I could get behind that...
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Post by Von K on Oct 27, 2016 22:31:37 GMT -5
REH is awesome at creating intriguing background characters and incidents. The Shumiri is a great example. There's quite a selection throughout the Conan tales. But one's who have been overlooked by pastichers? I've not read a lot of pastiche so that's a tricky one for me. I can't imagine there's many that Roy Thomas wouldn't have picked up on in his long run with Conan.
Shevatas often comes up as a popular choice, so maybe he's too high profile (I think he's one of Scott Oden's faves). Before re-reading Black Colossus a few years back I used to think that Shevatas might have potentially escaped his fate, but the Shumiri's statement about finding his corpse in Kuthchmes puts paid to that notion. He does however have a colourful back history, some of which is revealed by REH in an unpublished earlier draft of Black Colossus (Patrice posted a few fragments on the old forum). REH removed those details regarding Shevatas' past when optimising the final draft of Black Colossus.
That's one reason why I think he might have potentially edited out some Hyperborean background for Olgerd Vladislav in a previous draft of AWSBB, reasons of narrative optimisation.
Named characters like Shevatas, Olgerd, Nestor, Taurus, Almuric the mercenary etc might be too high profile to fit your question?
Lost tales? No doubt these are already on your list - the barbarians who first stole the Heart of Ahriman from Xaltotun. The party of Zamoran thieves hired by Orastes to procure Xaltotun's mummy case, the survivors going on to steal the Heart of Ahriman itself, protected by the conjurements of Orastes.
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Post by thedarkman on Oct 28, 2016 6:13:06 GMT -5
REH is awesome at creating intriguing background characters and incidents. The Shumiri is a great example. There's quite a selection throughout the Conan tales. But one's who have been overlooked by pastichers? I've not read a lot of pastiche so that's a tricky one for me. I can't imagine there's many that Roy Thomas wouldn't have picked up on in his long run with Conan. Shevatas often comes up as a popular choice, so maybe he's too high profile (I think he's one of Scott Oden's faves). Before re-reading Black Colossus a few years back I used to think that Shevatas might have potentially escaped his fate, but the Shumiri's statement about finding his corpse in Kuthchmes puts paid to that notion. He does however have a colourful back history, some of which is revealed by REH in an unpublished earlier draft of Black Colossus (Patrice posted a few fragments on the old forum). REH removed those details regarding Shevatas' past when optimising the final draft of Black Colossus. That's one reason why I think he might have potentially edited out some Hyperborean background for Olgerd Vladislav in a previous draft of AWSBB, reasons of narrative optimisation. Named characters like Shevatas, Olgerd, Nestor, Taurus, Almuric the mercenary etc might be too high profile to fit your question? Lost tales? No doubt these are already on your list - the barbarians who first stole the Heart of Ahriman from Xaltotun. The party of Zamoran thieves hired by Orastes to procure Xaltotun's mummy case, the survivors going on to steal the Heart of Ahriman itself, protected by the conjurements of Orastes. [bra What he said...
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Post by deuce on Oct 28, 2016 9:25:29 GMT -5
I actually wanted to include the guy in a tv outline. The goal was that he'd be Conan's mentor (teaching Conan the tricks of the trade); Conan being wet behind the ears could have used a teacherThieving is a set of skills. Some things in Conan's background would bleed over, but certainly not all. Just understanding the "civilized" mindset (in order to anticipate others' actions/reactions) would be a valuable skill. I still find it baffling that Roy didn't use the Shumiri. He was usually right on top of such things. All I can figure is that Roy moved Conan right on through the "thief" period (because of the Comics Code?) and maybe he didn't realize it until later. Perhaps he might have done differently in Conan the Adventurer if that series had gone on longer. Hell, there's the entire Temple of Bel/Thieves' Guild that could've been explored. The Shumiri would also be an "outsider" in Zamora, just like Conan. I don't think REH choosing to have this thief be from Shumir was an accident. Belit said that Bel was born in Shumir.
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Post by brajah on Oct 28, 2016 14:02:02 GMT -5
Back in the 90s Kevin J. Anderson edited a series of books from the Star Wars universe called " Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina", " Tales from Jabbas Palace" etc. They took a scene from the movies and let authors write stories for the minor characters in the scene. None of the main characters, just some of the extras. Almost all of the stories mention the events in the cantina that day but they are secondary to the stories that brought the characters to be in that place at that time. If you remember the cantina scene from the original Star Wars movie it pans around to a rogues gallery which is very similar to the opening of The Tower of the Elephant. REH populates the bar with: a giant Hyperborean renegade, taciturn, dangerous, with a broadsword strapped to his great gaunt frame a Shemitish counterfeiter, with his hook nose and curled blue-black beard a bold-eyed Brythunian wench, sitting on the knee of a tawny-haired Gunderman – a wandering mercenary soldier, a deserter from some defeated army a professional kidnapper come up from distant Koth to teach woman-stealing to Zamorians who were born with more knowledge of the art than he could ever attain from later in the story you get: Taurus of Nemedia, Prince of Thieves - “Because that was all the powder I possessed. The obtaining of it was a feat which in itself was enough to make me famous among the thieves of the world. Yara, the high priest, who worked strange dooms from this jeweled tower Yag-kosha - “I am very old, oh man of the waste countries; long and long ago I came to this planet with others of my world, from the green planet Yag, which circles for ever in the outer fringe of this universe. " Right there you have eight stories waiting to be told.
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Post by thedarkman on Oct 28, 2016 16:11:41 GMT -5
Excellent. Now to the powers that be; make this happen! There are a ton of modern writers out there who are big fans of Howard, and I bet they would jump at the chance to do a Hyborian Tale for a new anthology. I know I would give it a shot...
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Post by deuce on Nov 5, 2016 13:48:20 GMT -5
This, from The Devil in Iron... "We must lure Conan away from the kozaks," said the counsellor abruptly. "Their war camp is at present pitched somewhere on the lower reaches of the Zaporoska River—which, as you well know, is a wilderness of reeds, a swampy jungle in which our last expedition was cut to pieces by those masterless devils."
He [Conan] had been on Xapur before. Less than a month ago, he had held a secret conclave here with a pirate crew. (...) The buccaneers who roamed Vilyet ceaselessly would have learned of any work going on on such stupendous scale and would have informed the kozaks.
He laughed and strode with her in his arms toward the stair. "You shall judge," he boasted. "I'll burn Khawarizm for a torch to light your way to my tent."To me, it seems pretty obvious that Conan and the kozaki had a plan never said out loud in the yarn. They had intrigued with the Vilayet pirates to attack and plunder Khawarizm. All the "parleys" at the outpost of Ghori were simply stall tactics until the pirates could gather their own forces and both outlaw groups assault Khawarizm. Did any pasticheur, prose or comics, ever write a tale about this?
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Post by Von K on Nov 10, 2016 16:37:50 GMT -5
I can't answer your question Deuce, but I'd guess that Conan might seem less sympathetic to the general reader in such a yarn, more like Baibars from SotT, more like the 'horseman shaking with giant mirth, over the corpse strewn blackened earth.'
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fernando
Thief
I'm purist and proud! I hate insistent people! And I only give opinions when I'm ASKED!!
Posts: 141
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Post by fernando on Nov 11, 2016 13:42:39 GMT -5
There are plenty of incidents and whatnot referred to in Howard's Conan yarns that I've never seen developed by pasticheurs. Here's one from Black Colossus: She could dimly see that Conan still sat on the boulder; she glimpsed the long blue glimmer of his blade. Close beside him crouched another figure, on which the dying fire cast a faint glow. Yasmela drowsily made out a hooked beak of a nose, a glittering bead of an eye, under a white turban. The man was speaking rapidly in a Shemite dialect she found hard to understand.
“Let Bel wither my arm! I speak truth! By Derketo, Conan, I am a prince of liars, but I do not lie to an old comrade. I swear by the days when we were thieves together in the land of Zamora, before you donned hauberk!
“I saw Natohk; with the others I knelt before him when he made incantations to Set. But I did not thrust my nose in the sand as the rest did. I am a thief of Shumir, and my sight is keener than a weasel’s. I squinted up and saw his veil blowing in the wind. It blew aside, and I saw – I saw – Bel aid me, Conan, I say I saw! My blood froze in my veins and my hair stood up. What I had seen burned my soul like a red-hot iron. I could not rest until I had made sure.
“I journeyed to the ruins of Kuthchemes. The door of the ivory dome stood open; in the doorway lay a great serpent, transfixed by a sword. Within the dome lay the body of a man, so shrivelled and distorted I could scarce make it out at first – it was Shevatas, the Zamorian, the only thief in the world I acknowledged as my superior."While the thief from Shumir is unnamed by REH, it's obvious that said thief was a fairly decent buddy of the Cimmerian back in their Zamora days. Conan trusts him and the Shumiri definitely does Conan a good turn by revealing Natohk's true identity. Plus, Conan doesn't contradict the thief's boasting, so I'd say the Shumiri was a damned good thief. Have any pasticheurs included this guy in tales of Conan's "Zamoran" period? I don't think even Roy Thomas picked up on this sticky-fingered Shumiri. Roy Thomas didn't, but I did. cronicasdacimeria.blogspot.com/2014/12/yezud-e-shadizar.htmlI hope you enjoy it...
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Post by deuce on Jul 7, 2017 19:46:21 GMT -5
"But in civilized countries I’ve seen people sick of gluttony while others were starving. Aye, I’ve seen men fall and die of hunger against the walls of shops and storehouses crammed with food. Sometimes I was hungry, too, but then I took what I wanted at sword’s-point."--Conan, in The Black StrangerIf I had to bet, I'd say that the period Conan refers to probably took place between the time he escaped from the Hyperboreans and the events of The God in the Bowl. Did any of the pasticheurs, including Roy, ever depict a scene like that? IMO, it would be dramatic/interesting, because Conan would have to be at a very low ebb if he was reduced to mugging people for food. Not saying that it should be the climax of a story, but dramatic, nonetheless. The same Cimmerian lad stealing food at swordpoint would one day sit upon a jewelled throne.
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Post by amrathelion on Sept 6, 2017 17:49:23 GMT -5
Conan's time with the Pirates of the Barachan Isles are only specifically mentioned in two tales about pirates, The Pool of the Black One and The Black Stranger, and referenced one time each in Beyond the Black River andThe Hour of the Dragon. The time that Conan has spent among the Barachan pirates is never set forth in a story of its own and only alluded to in others.
“Conan the Cimmerian, late of the Barachan Isles, of the Black Coast, and of many other climes where life ran wild, had come to the kingdom of Keshan following the lure of a fabled treasure that outshone the hoard of the Turanian kings.” - The Servants of Bit-Yakin
“The pirates were mainly Argossean Sailors, turned outlaw…” –The Black Stranger
“Who of all the sea-folk had not heard the wild, bloody tales told of Conan, the wild rover who had once been a captain of the Barachan pirates, and one of the greatest scourges of the sea? A score of ballads celebrated his ferocious and audacious exploits.”- The Black Stranger
"Little love was lost between the Zingaran renegades and the outlaws who infested the Baracha Islands off the southern coast of Zingara." –The Pool of the Black One
“’I came from the islands.’ ‘Oh!’ The other regarded him with increased interest. Black brows drew down over scowling eyes, and the thin lip lifted unpleasantly. ‘So you are one of those dogs of the Barachans.’ A faint smile touched Conan’s lips.” – The Pool of the Black One
“’I found it necessary to leave the rendezvous at Tortage before moonrise last night,’ answered Conan. ‘I departed in a leaky boat, and rowed and bailed all night. Just at dawn I saw your topsails, and left the miserable tub to sing, while I made better speed in the water.’” – The Pool of the Black One
“’I thought you were dead,’ said Zarono slowly. ‘Three years ago the shattered hull of your ship was sighted off a reefy coast, and you were heard of on the Main no more.’ ‘I didn’t drown with my crew,’ answered Conan. ‘It’ll take a bigger ocean than that one to drown me.’”- The Black Stranger
“Conan grinned and indicated The Red Hand drawing swiftly inshore. ‘A ship and a crew are all I want. As soon as I set foot on that deck, I’ll have a ship, and as soon as I can raise the Barachans I’ll have a crew. The lads of the Red Brotherhood are eager to ship with me, because I always lead them to rare loot. And as soon as I’ve set you and the girl ashore on the Zingaran coast, I’ll show the dogs some looting! Nay, nay, no thanks! What are a handful of gems to me, when all the loot of the southern seas will be mine for the grasping?’” – The Black Stranger
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Post by johnnypt on Sept 7, 2017 10:06:05 GMT -5
His time with the Barachans and his time in Hyrkania to me are the two big holes in the stories Howard wrote. Think I would have traded Zamboula for one of those.
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Post by deuce on Sept 7, 2017 10:28:41 GMT -5
His time with the Barachans and his time in Hyrkania to me are the two big holes in the stories Howard wrote. Think I would have traded Zamboula for one of those. So, did none of the pasticheurs cover the two Barachan periods? I know Roy left Marvel long before that period would've come up, but I can proudly say that I haven't read all of the Conan prose pastiches. Maybe half. Weren't there several pastiche stories from LSdC and Tor covering Conan's time amongst the Turanians/Hyrkanians?
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