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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2018 4:22:29 GMT -5
What's next for Conan? Can Fredrik Malmberg/Pathfinder Media realistically sell Ryan Condal's script to another studio? Why's Malmberg so quiet? Would an animated or live action adaptation (feature length) of Beyond the Black River (any viable adaptation) be a better option? Should we just give up on the possibility of REH's Conan ever making it to the screen and accept a completely different, (I dread to say this) updated, modern version of the Cimmerian ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2018 4:28:07 GMT -5
This recent development does not surprise me at all considering what we've recently learned about who is in charge of Amazon TV now. Jenifer Salke is an SJW and a 3rd Wave Feminist/post-modernist of the highest order. With her at the helm I'm glad this series is no longer going to be made by Amazon... it would have been horrible. Could you imagine Conan the Soymerian? That is a thought that makes me shudder... Personally, I never thought of Conan as a "right wing" character (but that's another dis cussion) and I see very few issues in REH's writings that aren't in anything else from the time. In fact, in some respects I'd say he was ahead of his times. So, while the "racism/sexism" issue may be a factor, I think that the single biggest factor is the general perception of Conan and S&S in general. He's a big muscle guy with a sword, right? Speaks in cod-Germanic accented monotone, the stories all involve him killing a monster and slinging a woman over his shoulder. The story plots are kind of sub-computer game, right, treasure, monster, girl, fight, fight, fight. So we need to pitch this at adolescent boys, right? There's no character arc, no "romantic interest", no real world-building or background, right? It's like He-man with gore.
Until whoever is in charge can get an understanding and appreciation for what REH did, we will never get a decent screen Conan.
I agree.
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Post by lordyam on Sept 30, 2018 10:22:47 GMT -5
Thing is.....I can’t blame her. There’s a lot to like about Howard’s tales but there’s also a lot of racism and sexism at times. Changes would have had to been made to make them work and the bitching about sjws and feminists kinda proves some of salke’s worries as at the least not without merit. Don’t get me wrong a Conan story could be done well but it would be hard to pull off without talent Yep SJWs and 3rd Wave Feminists are the actual sexists and racists buddy boy. They are the ones picking people based on their race and sex... which would literally be the definition of those terms... but hey don't let facts get in the way of your narrative. Please continue Not really. In practice shows that appeal to both men and women are axed because executives only really care about men. Quite frankly women need advocates. In practice anti sjws ignore talented women and minorities because they subconsciously think women and minorities are inferior.
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Post by themirrorthief on Sept 30, 2018 12:18:36 GMT -5
apparently Harvey WEinstein and lots of other big Hollywood execs care a lot about women
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Post by megatron on Sept 30, 2018 14:34:59 GMT -5
Yep SJWs and 3rd Wave Feminists are the actual sexists and racists buddy boy. They are the ones picking people based on their race and sex... which would literally be the definition of those terms... but hey don't let facts get in the way of your narrative. Please continue Not really. In practice shows that appeal to both men and women are axed because executives only really care about men. Quite frankly women need advocates. In practice anti sjws ignore talented women and minorities because they subconsciously think women and minorities are inferior. You claim to know a lot of what other people are thinking and what their 'real' motives are... do you posses some mutant power that allows you to read minds? If you do actually posses this power can you please put it to good use like solving poverty or world hunger instead of focusing it on movie executives and such. To quote Thulsa Doom, "What a waste."
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Post by megatron on Sept 30, 2018 14:36:36 GMT -5
Personally, I never thought of Conan as a "right wing" character (but that's another dis cussion) and I see very few issues in REH's writings that aren't in anything else from the time. In fact, in some respects I'd say he was ahead of his times. So, while the "racism/sexism" issue may be a factor, I think that the single biggest factor is the general perception of Conan and S&S in general. He's a big muscle guy with a sword, right? Speaks in cod-Germanic accented monotone, the stories all involve him killing a monster and slinging a woman over his shoulder. The story plots are kind of sub-computer game, right, treasure, monster, girl, fight, fight, fight. So we need to pitch this at adolescent boys, right? There's no character arc, no "romantic interest", no real world-building or background, right? It's like He-man with gore.
Until whoever is in charge can get an understanding and appreciation for what REH did, we will never get a decent screen Conan.
I agree. I agree with the underlined part as well. I'm not sure where the "right wing" character comment comes from or what it relates to. Would love to hear more if so inclined...
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Post by lordyam on Sept 30, 2018 17:19:29 GMT -5
Not really. In practice shows that appeal to both men and women are axed because executives only really care about men. Quite frankly women need advocates. In practice anti sjws ignore talented women and minorities because they subconsciously think women and minorities are inferior. You claim to know a lot of what other people are thinking and what their 'real' motives are... do you posses some mutant power that allows you to read minds? If you do actually posses this power can you please put it to good use like solving poverty or world hunger instead of focusing it on movie executives and such. To quote Thulsa Doom, "What a waste." It’s based on the fact that they pal around with white supremacists and misogynists. That’s all there is. Most anti sjws I’m confident to say think women and minorities are subhuman
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Post by lordyam on Sept 30, 2018 18:38:58 GMT -5
Hell since the Show has been cancelled I'll do my own take on the series. I may take some liberties with a few of the stories (though only the lesser quality ones) and I'll flesh it out into something better. Season 0: This would be a bit like Gods of the Arena in that it would air AFTER Season 1. Season 1 would have had hints of Conan's origins but this allows us to really see them. Hell you can even have it that it's basically a flashback sequence for Conan as he's at home. I'd honestly mostly adapt Steven Block (Ironhand)'s origin scripts and spread it out over 10 episodes. Episode 1: Birth of Conan Episodes 2-3: Just Another Raid Adaptation. We see greater hints of the wider world (some of Thoth's minions cooperate with the Vanir to acquire a dark artifact from far in the North. Episode 4: Conan's Trial by Fire: We get Conan breaking the bull's neck Episodes 5-7: Fall of Venarium: Venarium (Which has been in the background for all this time) is finally taking center stage. Conan has his first bit of romance with the daughter of the commandant. Hell you can easily keep Koivoinen the Acheronian sorceror. In the end Venarium burns; Conan's squeeze is one of the few survivors but she and Conan part on bitter terms. Episodes 8-10: The Snow Devil Adaptation: Conan and the others go north to help protect the Aesir. Conan's grandfather dies fighting Bolverk, but Conan runs into Atali. Personally I'd keep the idea that Atali was using the ambush as an audition, and she explains that Bolverk will lead the Vanir to ruin if he continues. The test was to see if Conan was up to scratch and sure enough he was. That way you'd be able to silence any complaints about potential rape overtones since it's a consensual affair on both sides (though Atali also has.....darker motives for sleeping with Conan that will come into play later). Atali gives Conan a bit of her garment, and Conan uses this to psych Bolverk out enough for him to mess up and let Conan kill him. He decides to head into Hyperborea. Season 1: Episode 1: Conan gets captured by Hyperboreans and forced into the arena. He befriends some of his fellow slaves, and it's here that he starts learning other languages (his best friend teaches him Nemedian). Eventually they trigger a massive slave uprising.....which ends with most of them dying. One of Conan's friends, a Nemedian Adventurer, begs Conan to take his medallion back to his parents in Numalia so that they will know what happened. Conan does so, heading south to Numalia Episode 2: God in the Bowl Part 1: Conan Heads to Numalia, and so manages to complete his friend's wish. He decides to stick around, learning more about thievery and making the friendship of Aztrias Petrias. Aztrias asks Conan to do a job and Conan agrees. The episode ends with Kallian's body being discovered. Episode 3: Part 2 of the tale. The only real change would be that the fight with the beast is a longer affair. Through Camera work you wouldn't even see the beast's full body, just a shadow. Then at the very end Conan runs and the final shot is the beast's form....and it is hideous. Episode 4: The City of Thieves: Conan realizes that he doesn't want to let civilization beat him, so he heads to the City of Thieves to learn the trade from masters. It builds up to Tower of the Elephant (Conan talks to the Court Secretary and hears about Yara's depravity and cruelty. The episode ends with him deciding "Fuckit" and tackling the tower of the elephant. Episode 5: A full adaptation of Tower; Yog's flashbacks would be a high point. The episode ends with Episode 6: Conan finds another teacher (The Zamorian thief who shows up in Black Colossus) and we see Conan start to grow more adroit at thievery. He also meets the blond brythunian wench. However Yara's downfall has caused the King to start reasserting royal authority and as such the guards are actually doing their jobs. Episode 7: Conan is run out of town by Nestor and he finds the lost city. He and Nestor team up and they start to become friends. The episode ends with Conan being forced to flee yet again when the magistrate is bitten by the snake thingy. Episode 8: Conan makes his way to the Red City in Corinthia and meets Nestor again. They go into business together, with Nestor teaching Conan some more tricks (We also get Nestor's backstory.) However, Conan's lady love is starting to get disatisfied and so betrays them. Nestor is hung at the end of the episode Episode 9: Rogues in the House Part 1: Conan kills the priest but gets captured. Murilo helps him escape and Conan confronts his ex.....after seeing her grovelling he just realizes that she isn't worth it and so just dumps her in the puddle. The episode ends with Murilo approaching the chair.....and thak roaring and lunging at him. Episode 10: Rogues in the House Part 2: The rest of the story. Ends with Conan cutting Nestor's corpse down and burying it. So Season 2 and Season 3: Episode 1: Journey to the East. Conan travels to Agraphur in Turan. He gets pressganged into joining the army, and remeets Arslan, one of his friends from Hyperborea. They hit it off again, and both go through intense training. They also acquit themselves in various acts of Badassery. As the episode ends Conan learns that their next target will be the city where they were held as slaves (it’s super risky since they will have to sneak the army DEEP into enemy territory. Episode 2: Conan and Arslan infiltrate the city and we see how far both have come. Ultimately both are able to trigger another gladiatorial revolt, coinciding with Turan’s military launching an assault. In the climax Conan faces General Bozark (or whatever name works) the bastard who massacred the fleeing gladiators. Conan avenges his head by kill Bozark, but his commanding officer (who is actually a good guy) is killed. Unfortunately his replacement Reshit is bad news. Episode 3: Conan finds himself increasingly uneasy with life in the military thanks to General Reshit’s cruelty and depravity. Conan finally decides enough is enough after a particularly brutal massacre. Conan, sickened by the sheer amount of bloodshed and murder (even Venarium is tame compared to the savagery Reshit displayed) helps a mother and her child escape the massacre, but is arrested by Reshit for this. Arslan and some of the others free Conan, and Conan murders Reshit and his manservsnt Harun before fleeing into the west. The rest of the Unit deliberately refuses to cooperate with this Episode 4: Yezud: Conan goes up against a spider god to save a friend. Episode 5: Conan has wound up in Koth, enlisting in the royal army. The first mission is to retake the city of Yaralet; things go wrong and Conan is forced to brave Yaralet’s dangers. He manages to singlehandedly free the city but because Strabonus is an asshole he gives Conan a pittance. Naturally Conan is insulted Episodes 6-8: Black Colossus. The changes made would be a.) We see Thugra start to build his horde; We see that the only reason the people serve Thugra for the most part is that they’re scared of him or he’s giving them the chance to get revenge on their oppressors. Thugra wins some tribes over by helping to destroy and subjugate the cities that oppressed them. As such there are grumblings if discontent among certain members. This is intercut with Conan joining Amalric and becoming one of the guys. b.) When Conan meets his old mentor the guy tells Conan about the increasing discontent amongst Thugra’s army; even some of the more enthusiastic tribes are getting put off by both the dark sorcery and the alliance with high Born like Katuman. c.) I’d have a dramatic scene where Conan and Thugra meet under a flag of truce shortly before the battle. Thugra tries to psych Conan out, gives him the whole “be my servant and experience great rewards” but is rattled when Conan publically reveals who he truly is to his entire army. This is purposeful on Conan’s part, to breed dissent amongst his forces (since Thugra is a figure of horror).. Both sides leave (Thugra realizes he’ll look bad in front of his troops if he kills Conan under a flag of truce). d.) When Conan has Amalric attack from the side the dissenters finally decide to take a stand and turn on their fellows. This allows the Khorajans to win. e.) When Conan confronts Thugra in the shrine Thugra is in full villainous Breakdown mode. Like in DH his lust for Yasmela has caused him to make a few blunders, and sacrificing her is the one thing that can save him. They fight, and while Thugra does injure Conan in his frantic state he fails to notice that it’s not a fatal wound. As such When Conan tosses his sword he’s off guard. Episode 9: A time skip has occurred, and Conan and Yasmela are a couple, though both are starting to realize it won’t work. Conan decides to help Yasmela by getting the gold from Kuthchemes to pay off Ophir’s King. He and several others, including Sergius, brave the horrors in order to get the gold. Sergius tries a double cross, but Conan and the others are able to persevere. They retaliate by leaving Sergius to die in the desert, burying him up to his head in the sand. Conan breaks things off with Yasmela. As he leaves, Yasmela lays a hand on her stomach, implying that she is pregnant with Conan’s child. Episode 10: Conan befriends a man in Argos as well as his friend. Conan is captured and refuses to betray his friend. The episode ends with Conan fleeing into the sun. Season 3: Episode 1: The Queen of the Black Coast: Conan joins the Argus and meets Belit. Episode 2: Belit likes what she sees, and Conan is attracted as well. Belit agrees to spare the survivors of the Argus if Conan joins with her. The rest of the episode shows Conan getting to know the crew; we also get the first part of Belit’s origin Episode 3: Belit’s origin story continued. Episode 4: Conan and Thuthmekri tangle over a treasure. Conan and Belit come out on top, leaving Thuthmekri behind. Episode 5: Conan and Belit go (at Belit’s insistence) to hunt a horde. By chance they run into Kalanthes, and after a fight decide to pool resources (Kalanthes only cares about the book of Skelos). However Thoth Amon’s agents are on the trail. Episode 6: Part 2 of the well of Skelos adventure. As a reward for their service Kal grants them a blessing of Ibis, which will keep Thoth Amon from being able to attack them or any of the survivors supernaturally. Episode 7: Due to their helping Kalanthes, Thoth Amon has the Stygian Navy pursuing them. They go on the offensive and burn the Stygian fleet in the dock. Episode 8: Conan and Belit sack the city of Abombi. Episode 9-10: Death on the Black Coast. Part 1 ends with Conan getting knocked out. Second part is Conan doing everything else During this season I’d show how Conan and Belit both influence each other. Belit is softened by Conan and becomes “somewhat” less bloodthirsty. Conan also picks up some more guile from her.
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Post by terryallenuk on Sept 30, 2018 18:40:34 GMT -5
FYI I tweeted Ryan a couple of days ago , as others have - NO answer
I also questioned Fredrik through my REH FB page - NO answer
Terry
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2018 19:06:27 GMT -5
FYI I tweeted Ryan a couple of days ago , as others have - NO answer I also questioned Fredrik through my REH FB page - NO answer Terry Thanks for the update, Terry.
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Post by zarono on Sept 30, 2018 19:53:34 GMT -5
Considering Marvel is going all out with 3 new comics, maybe Marvel/Disney is getting in position to stake a claim on the Hyborian Age for future media. This could go in all kinds of different directions with or without Condal's script and only time will tell. Of all the possible reasons for Amazon Conan's demise this seems the like the most logical to me because when you think about it Amazon would be footing a huge upfront production cost ($90 million) just to add another show to it's fantasy lineup with no other real benefit other than perhaps bringing in new prime subscribers and perhaps some merchandise profits directly related the tv show. While in the same year Marvel starts 3 comics with a much smaller up front cost (I don't know what it cost to produce comics but it can't be anywhere near $10's of millions) with potential for greater profit (versus upfront costs) from merchandising or maybe even animated media considering Disney is part of the equation. Who knows maybe Disney is looking to add Conan to their live action movie properties to eventually replace the Pirates of the Caribbean series.
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Post by megatron on Oct 1, 2018 0:08:41 GMT -5
You claim to know a lot of what other people are thinking and what their 'real' motives are... do you posses some mutant power that allows you to read minds? If you do actually posses this power can you please put it to good use like solving poverty or world hunger instead of focusing it on movie executives and such. To quote Thulsa Doom, "What a waste." It’s based on the fact that they pal around with white supremacists and misogynists. That’s all there is. Most anti sjws I’m confident to say think women and minorities are subhuman Where do you come up with this crap?
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Post by moonlightshadow on Oct 1, 2018 1:34:12 GMT -5
You claim to know a lot of what other people are thinking and what their 'real' motives are... do you posses some mutant power that allows you to read minds? If you do actually posses this power can you please put it to good use like solving poverty or world hunger instead of focusing it on movie executives and such. To quote Thulsa Doom, "What a waste." It’s based on the fact that they pal around with white supremacists and misogynists. That’s all there is. Most anti sjws I’m confident to say think women and minorities are subhuman So if I'm not virtue signalling in an REH forum and I think third wave feminists are one of the main reasons for the decline of western civilization it means I think women and minorities are subhuman? Seriously keep your simple minded worldview to yourself. Most people in my family, my neighborhood and among my friends abhor SJWs, none of them is a racist, a woman beater or anything like that. Jesus, I'm german and in the last two elections I have voted for the liberal party.I have to say though that the german liberals are not liberal in the american sense of the word. I guess you would call them classical liberals with a touch of libertarianism. But of course that doesn't matter for american (leftist) liberals. They call EVERYBODY who doesn't agree with their worldview a fascist, a racist and a sexist. That's what makes them (the extreme liberals) so dangerous and that's why people all over the western world are fed up with the destrucion of free speech and free thinking that has been enforced by the liberal elites and the liberal media. It's getting a little bit too orwellian for most of us. Even in a REH forum we have endless discussions about what a racist and sexist Howard was. You know what...don't read him then! Leave Howard to the people who understand that in the time he was living his political views weren't radical at all. Sure, even I have to cringe a few times at Howard's depiction of blacks. I guess except for a handful of nazis everybody cringes at these points in the stories. That doesn't mean that Conan must be changed to a diversity poster boy in a modern adaptation. Conan was clearly a libertarian character. He did not care about somebody's race, upbringing or education. Only what he or she achieved was important to him. He also thought that everybody is responsible for himself. Sure, he often helped people when they were in trouble but to Conan nobody is entitled to anything that he does not get by his own power and his own will. When Conan became king, Aquilonia had the lowest taxes of all hyborian kingdoms. Sounds like a textbook libertarian to me. Of course in the eyes of an american liberal "libertarian" equals "right-wing". They couldn't stand a TV series in which Conan would positively represent libertarian ideals, it would violate their unshakable belief that only liberalism, globalism and feminism lead the way to human progress and that everybody has to be convinced of that belief or suffer the consequences. They don't want any positive role-models that are NOT liberal in their media echo-chambers.
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Post by Char-Vell on Oct 1, 2018 4:25:35 GMT -5
Considering Marvel is going all out with 3 new comics, maybe Marvel/Disney is getting in position to stake a claim on the Hyborian Age for future media. This could go in all kinds of different directions with or without Condal's script and only time will tell. Of all the possible reasons for Amazon Conan's demise this seems the like the most logical to me because when you think about it Amazon would be footing a huge upfront production cost ($90 million) just to add another show to it's fantasy lineup with no other real benefit other than perhaps bringing in new prime subscribers and perhaps some merchandise profits directly related the tv show. While in the same year Marvel starts 3 comics with a much smaller up front cost (I don't know what it cost to produce comics but it can't be anywhere near $10's of millions) with potential for greater profit (versus upfront costs) from merchandising or maybe even animated media considering Disney is part of the equation. Who knows maybe Disney is looking to add Conan to their live action movie properties to eventually replace the Pirates of the Caribbean series. Now for some wild, fevered imaginings: Disney brings Conan into their MCU, we get Shuma Gorath, The Serpent Crown, and Bloodstone.
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Post by johnnypt on Oct 1, 2018 5:51:07 GMT -5
Well Disney’s going to have that big stake in Hulu...always possibilities...
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