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Post by zarono on Oct 1, 2018 6:29:39 GMT -5
Considering Marvel is going all out with 3 new comics, maybe Marvel/Disney is getting in position to stake a claim on the Hyborian Age for future media. This could go in all kinds of different directions with or without Condal's script and only time will tell. Of all the possible reasons for Amazon Conan's demise this seems the like the most logical to me because when you think about it Amazon would be footing a huge upfront production cost ($90 million) just to add another show to it's fantasy lineup with no other real benefit other than perhaps bringing in new prime subscribers and perhaps some merchandise profits directly related the tv show. While in the same year Marvel starts 3 comics with a much smaller up front cost (I don't know what it cost to produce comics but it can't be anywhere near $10's of millions) with potential for greater profit (versus upfront costs) from merchandising or maybe even animated media considering Disney is part of the equation. Who knows maybe Disney is looking to add Conan to their live action movie properties to eventually replace the Pirates of the Caribbean series. Now for some wild, fevered imaginings: Disney brings Conan into their MCU, we get Shuma Gorath, The Serpent Crown, and Bloodstone. That would be something! The Hyborian Age was a firmly established part of 70's Marvel comics canon so I would think it's quite possible.
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Post by johnnypt on Oct 1, 2018 7:30:49 GMT -5
FYI I tweeted Ryan a couple of days ago , as others have - NO answer I also questioned Fredrik through my REH FB page - NO answer Terry It might be one of those things where it's better to keep quiet and exhaust every possibility before saying anything.
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Post by Aryeh on Oct 1, 2018 8:23:58 GMT -5
It’s based on the fact that they pal around with white supremacists and misogynists. That’s all there is. Most anti sjws I’m confident to say think women and minorities are subhuman So if I'm not virtue signalling in an REH forum and I think third wave feminists are one of the main reasons for the decline of western civilization it means I think women and minorities are subhuman? Seriously keep your simple minded worldview to yourself. Most people in my family, my neighborhood and among my friends abhor SJWs, none of them is a racist, a woman beater or anything like that. Jesus, I'm german and in the last two elections I have voted for the liberal party.I have to say though that the german liberals are not liberal in the american sense of the word. I guess you would call them classical liberals with a touch of libertarianism. But of course that doesn't matter for american (leftist) liberals. They call EVERYBODY who doesn't agree with their worldview a fascist, a racist and a sexist. That's what makes them (the extreme liberals) so dangerous and that's why people all over the western world are fed up with the destrucion of free speech and free thinking that has been enforced by the liberal elites and the liberal media. It's getting a little bit too orwellian for most of us. Even in a REH forum we have endless discussions about what a racist and sexist Howard was. You know what...don't read him then! Leave Howard to the people who understand that in the time he was living his political views weren't radical at all. Sure, even I have to cringe a few times at Howard's depiction of blacks. I guess except for a handful of nazis everybody cringes at these points in the stories. That doesn't mean that Conan must be changed to a diversity poster boy in a modern adaptation. Conan was clearly a libertarian character. He did not care about somebody's race, upbringing or education. Only what he or she achieved was important to him. He also thought that everybody is responsible for himself. Sure, he often helped people when they were in trouble but to Conan nobody is entitled to anything that he does not get by his own power and his own will. When Conan became king, Aquilonia had the lowest taxes of all hyborian kingdoms. Sounds like a textbook libertarian to me. Of course in the eyes of an american liberal "libertarian" equals "right-wing". They couldn't stand a TV series in which Conan would positively represent libertarian ideals, it would violate their unshakable belief that only liberalism, globalism and feminism lead the way to human progress and that everybody has to be convinced of that belief or suffer the consequences. They don't want any positive role-models that are NOT liberal in their media echo-chambers.
While I agree with you that generally political correctness, or even more generally the liberal ideology, is today an instance that is again introducing censorship, and that, as such, it is very harmful, because it is destroying culture while advocating policing of everything, I have to say that I don't see how Lordyam posts can be identified as something which is in that vein. I see Lordyam insisting on that that we don't overlook what are clearly problems with REH and his stories. As such, these (problems) are topics for a discussion. But when you say to Lordyam "then just don't read them!", then you are in effect trying to censor someone and stop the discussion.
I don't want to compare you with Megatron here, because what you say is rational, while what he says are more-less pure insults, but if you insist on this type of solution ("then don't read it!"), you are doing the same thing Megatron is doing. I see Megatron's posts as nothing but childish insults with which he is trying to cover his inability to construct a rational argument (hence his quick disqualification of anyone that he has trouble agreeing with or simply understanding). But this is forum, and people discuss things here. It shouldn't be admissible that someone like Megatron just comes and tells people they are "dreaming things up" and similar.
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Post by Char-Vell on Oct 1, 2018 10:06:43 GMT -5
Can we get a dedicated thread for identity politics debate? It's grown very tiresome here.
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Post by megatron on Oct 1, 2018 10:25:59 GMT -5
It’s based on the fact that they pal around with white supremacists and misogynists. That’s all there is. Most anti sjws I’m confident to say think women and minorities are subhuman So if I'm not virtue signalling in an REH forum and I think third wave feminists are one of the main reasons for the decline of western civilization it means I think women and minorities are subhuman? Seriously keep your simple minded worldview to yourself. Most people in my family, my neighborhood and among my friends abhor SJWs, none of them is a racist, a woman beater or anything like that. Jesus, I'm german and in the last two elections I have voted for the liberal party.I have to say though that the german liberals are not liberal in the american sense of the word. I guess you would call them classical liberals with a touch of libertarianism. But of course that doesn't matter for american (leftist) liberals. They call EVERYBODY who doesn't agree with their worldview a fascist, a racist and a sexist. That's what makes them (the extreme liberals) so dangerous and that's why people all over the western world are fed up with the destrucion of free speech and free thinking that has been enforced by the liberal elites and the liberal media. It's getting a little bit too orwellian for most of us. Even in a REH forum we have endless discussions about what a racist and sexist Howard was. You know what...don't read him then! Leave Howard to the people who understand that in the time he was living his political views weren't radical at all. Sure, even I have to cringe a few times at Howard's depiction of blacks. I guess except for a handful of nazis everybody cringes at these points in the stories. That doesn't mean that Conan must be changed to a diversity poster boy in a modern adaptation. Conan was clearly a libertarian character. He did not care about somebody's race, upbringing or education. Only what he or she achieved was important to him. He also thought that everybody is responsible for himself. Sure, he often helped people when they were in trouble but to Conan nobody is entitled to anything that he does not get by his own power and his own will. When Conan became king, Aquilonia had the lowest taxes of all hyborian kingdoms. Sounds like a textbook libertarian to me. Of course in the eyes of an american liberal "libertarian" equals "right-wing". They couldn't stand a TV series in which Conan would positively represent libertarian ideals, it would violate their unshakable belief that only liberalism, globalism and feminism lead the way to human progress and that everybody has to be convinced of that belief or suffer the consequences. They don't want any positive role-models that are NOT liberal in their media echo-chambers. Very well said. Could not agree more.
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Post by megatron on Oct 1, 2018 10:40:26 GMT -5
Can we get a dedicated thread for identity politics debate? It's grown very tiresome here. I agree with you. Thing is there are two people on this thread who have over the past 55+ pages made political, sexist and racial attacks towards anyone who disagrees with anything they say. When we let people like them run wild and unchallenged on their insults and statements they don't disappear they grow bolder. I am taking your advice Char-Vell and have started a Identity Politics thread where those who are interested can continue to discuss, debate or in these two people's case fight. I would like to point out the initial unsolicited political comments I've made on this thread have pertained DIRECTLY to the topic of the thread. These comments correctly pointed out the main reason Conan had been or was about to be cancelled by Amazon. These other two people then decided to jump in and insult me (not my ideas or what I was saying just me as a person) and anyone who disagrees with them insisting that we must be racists and sexists (despite zero evidence to back up said claims)... and then they have cried foul when they get a taste of their own medicine. Very sad. From this point on you have my word I will not make any more identity politics comments in this unless it is in response to direct insults or sexist/racists accusations made by those other two. My sincerest apologies for my part in engaging and sidetracking the main topic of this thread.
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Post by moonlightshadow on Oct 1, 2018 10:41:59 GMT -5
Point taken, Aryeh. In fact I'm happy when liberals read REH too, maybe they learn something ;-) Okay, joking aside, I agree with Char-Vell that there's too much politics talk in this thread. I think it started when Lordyam and you began to write lengthy posts about how much Howard's stories have to be changed to be "acceptable" on TV in this day and age and I and a few others don't think they should be neutered all that much or in the end it won't be Howard's Conan anymore. I think we can all agree (even Megatron) that it wouldn't be a good idea to adapt "Queen of the Black Coast" of "The Vale of Lost Women" exactly as written by Howard. That's out of the question. I think it would be going too far though if Conan can't fight an army of dark-skinned, possibly arabian looking people, just because some people could be offended by this. People are getting offended by everything these days. So let them get a little bit offended, nothing wrong with that. We also DON't need something like an asian side-kick to Conan so that the TV-series can be sold to China or similar crap. It'll end up like the new Star Trek series where you can make a drinking game out of all the characters and incidents that are only created to appeal to certain minorities, feminists or to the general liberal part of the viewership. THIS is getting tiresome. Also it is annoying to be called a racist if you think Conan fighting an "arab" or black army is perfectly fine and to be called sexist or a woman beater if you don't think modern feminism is good for society. I love my wife, she's a strong and smart woman but she would never call herself a feminist and she certainly doesn't want to have a "feminist character" in a Conan TV series. Liberals really have to stop making an alt-right sympathizer out of everybody who isn't agreeing with the left wing of the democratic party. There is nothing wrong with being a conservative, a libertarian, a classical liberal. Also stop bringing up politics in EVERY discussion. One can simply enjoy Conan carrying away a half-naked princess without complaining what sexist pig Robert E. Howard was. Believe me, we all know that this stuff is not PC anymore. It's not necessary to virtue signal so that we all know how progressive you are. (I'm don't mean specifically you, Aryeh.)
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Post by Aryeh on Oct 1, 2018 11:40:29 GMT -5
Can we get a dedicated thread for identity politics debate? It's grown very tiresome here. I agree with you. Thing is there are two people on this thread who have over the past 55+ pages made political, sexist and racial attacks towards anyone who disagrees with anything they say. When we let people like them run wild and unchallenged on their insults and statements they don't disappear they grow bolder. I am taking your advice Char-Vell and have started a Identity Politics thread where those who are interested can continue to discuss, debate or in these two people's case fight. I would like to point out the initial unsolicited political comments I've made on this thread have pertained DIRECTLY to the topic of the thread. These comments correctly pointed out the main reason Conan had been or was about to be cancelled by Amazon. These other two people then decided to jump in and insult me (not my ideas or what I was saying just me as a person) and anyone who disagrees with them insisting that we must be racists and sexists (despite zero evidence to back up said claims)... and then they have cried foul when they get a taste of their own medicine. Very sad. From this point on you have my word I will not make any more identity politics comments in this unless it is in response to direct insults or sexist/racists accusations made by those other two. My sincerest apologies for my part in engaging and sidetracking the main topic of this thread.
You don't know what you are talking about. Go to the first pages of this thread and you will see that the first people here that mentioned politics were exactly those who were whining how "left wing is going to influence this TV production". Previously, when someone mentioned we should stop talking politics here, Robp said something like: "Then stop complaining about the left wing", meaning then: complaining before anyone anywhere even mentioned anything political. This is the thing with people like you: you twist things, it is never your fault, but you complain before anyone even mentioned anything.
In addition to this -- you having no idea what you are talking about -- you said quite enough when you said you were happy this series was cancelled. That just proves what a troll you are. Seriously, why spend so much time on thread for a series you are happy it is not going to be produced? (Rethorical question, cause trolls don't need a reason.)
EDIT: I have to quote & comment this, too:
"Thing is there are two people on this thread who have over the past 55+ pages made political, sexist and racial attacks towards anyone who disagrees with anything they say."
Just wow. You're the real victim! Just pathetic. In addition to being a complete fabrication because even in your wildest dreams, this cannot be anywhere near the truth, i.e. how you were a victim of "political, sexist and racial attacks" in this thread.
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Post by Aryeh on Oct 1, 2018 11:49:57 GMT -5
Point taken, Aryeh. In fact I'm happy when liberals read REH too, maybe they learn something ;-) Okay, joking aside, I agree with Char-Vell that there's too much politics talk in this thread. I think it started when Lordyam and you began to write lengthy posts about how much Howard's stories have to be changed to be "acceptable" on TV in this day and age and I and a few others don't think they should be neutered all that much or in the end it won't be Howard's Conan anymore. I think we can all agree (even Megatron) that it wouldn't be a good idea to adapt "Queen of the Black Coast" of "The Vale of Lost Women" exactly as written by Howard. That's out of the question. I think it would be going too far though if Conan can't fight an army of dark-skinned, possibly arabian looking people, just because some people could be offended by this. People are getting offended by everything these days. So let them get a little bit offended, nothing wrong with that. We also DON't need something like an asian side-kick to Conan so that the TV-series can be sold to China or similar crap. It'll end up like the new Star Trek series where you can make a drinking game out of all the characters and incidents that are only created to appeal to certain minorities, feminists or to the general liberal part of the viewership. THIS is getting tiresome. Also it is annoying to be called a racist if you think Conan fighting an "arab" or black army is perfectly fine and to be called sexist or a woman beater if you don't think modern feminism is good for society. I love my wife, she's a strong and smart woman but she would never call herself a feminist and she certainly doesn't want to have a "feminist character" in a Conan TV series. Liberals really have to stop making an alt-right sympathizer out of everybody who isn't agreeing with the left wing of the democratic party. There is nothing wrong with being a conservative, a libertarian, a classical liberal. Also stop bringing up politics in EVERY discussion. One can simply enjoy Conan carrying away a half-naked princess without complaining what sexist pig Robert E. Howard was. Believe me, we all know that this stuff is not PC anymore. It's not necessary to virtue signal so that we all know how progressive you are. (I'm don't mean specifically you, Aryeh.)
No, it did not start neither with me nor with Lordyam; it started with others who could not stop complaining about the left wing, even before there were any signs whatsoever that anyone has anything against this show -- see first pages of the thread.
Also, notice how I was avoiding politics, and then that when I started talking about it, it was exclusively because
A.) one of the first reaction to the news that there will be a Conan TV show was an article in The Guardian, implying that today's political situation is rendering Conan not just obsolete but also unwelcome;
B.) I wanted to show that Conan is not just for the right wing sympathizers, the way some people here wanted to imply.
All my interventions that contained political discussion were there simply because I was afraid that a word of mouth will be carried from this forum straight to the ears of those in charge of the Conan TV show, and that they will start having some reservations towards the project because of that word of mouth that says "Conan has exclusively a right wing fan base", which is not true.
Apart from that I agree with the many of the things you said here.
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Post by moonlightshadow on Oct 1, 2018 12:01:46 GMT -5
Well, I read the first pages again and IMO the first who brough a political term into the discussion was lordyam. He was writing about "racism" in the Conan stories. Nobody has used the words left or right at that point but as I said earlier, when you start talking about a possible Conan TV series in a Howard forum and one of the first things a "Howard fan" brings up is the "racism" in the stories it is annoying for some people. I'm not defending Megatron's aggressive tone, I just want to explain why lordyam's and your attitude doesn't go over too well with some people either. It's like you meet with some guys, want to have fun, open a beer, start talking about the hot barmaid and immediately get called a "sexist" by one of your friends. For some people, me for one, it looks like the person bringing sexism or racism into the discussion at the very beginning only wants to prove how morally superior and progressive he is. It's "virtue signalling" but to some guys it just signals that you're somebody I don't want to hang out with.
I understand that things like Howard's depiction of races have to be addressed but the way lordyam and you go about it is annoying to people who don't want to deal with liberal's and feminist's favourite subjects in EVERY discussion. Certainly not when discussing the adventures of a barbarian that we all love who lived in a hypothetical world 12.000 years ago.
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Post by Aryeh on Oct 1, 2018 12:06:28 GMT -5
Well, I read the first pages again and IMO the first who brough a political term into the discussion was lordyam. He was writing about "racism" in the Conan stories. Nobody has used the words left or right at that point but as I said earlier, when you start talking about a possible Conan TV series in a Howard forum and one of the first things a "Howard fan" brings up is the "racism" in the stories it is annoying for some people. I'm not defending Megatron's aggressive tone, I just want to explain why lordyam's and your attitude doesn't go over too well with some people either. It's like you meet with some guys, want to have fun, open a beer, start talking about the hot barmaid and immediately get called a "sexist" by one of your friends. For some people, me for one, it looks like the person bringing sexism or racism into the discussion at the very beginning only wants to prove how morally superior and progressive he is. It's "virtue signalling" but to some guys it just signals that you're somebody I don't want to hang out with. I understand that things like Howard's depiction of races have to be addressed but the way lordyam and you go about it is annoying to people who don't want to deal with liberal's and feminist's favourite subjects in EVERY discussion. Certainly not when discussing the adventures of a barbarian that we all love who lived in a hypothetical world 12.000 years ago.
I don't agree with you at all if you are saying one should stay silent regarding this article -- especially when at the same time the right wing sympathizers on this forum have already started talking about "how the left is going to mess with our Conan".
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Post by megatron on Oct 1, 2018 12:35:12 GMT -5
No, it did not start neither with me nor with Lordyam; it started with others who could not stop complaining about the left wing, even before there were any signs whatsoever that anyone has anything against this show -- see first pages of the thread.
Also, notice how I was avoiding politics, and then that when I started talking about it, it was exclusively because
A.) one of the first reaction to the news that there will be a Conan TV show was an article in The Guardian, implying that today's political situation is rendering Conan not just obsolete but also unwelcome;
B.) I wanted to show that Conan is not just for the right wing sympathizers, the way some people here wanted to imply.
All my interventions that contained political discussion were there simply because I was afraid that a word of mouth will be carried from this forum straight to the ears of those in charge of the Conan TV show, and that they will start having some reservations towards the project because of that word of mouth that says "Conan has exclusively a right wing fan base", which is not true.
Apart from that I agree with the many of the things you said here.
You just can't help yourself can you? As per the request of some members why don't you come discuss these political views on the thread started in the Off-Topic section? I'm sure you can find it as I had you in mind when I made the title...
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Post by megatron on Oct 1, 2018 12:37:13 GMT -5
Well, I read the first pages again and IMO the first who brough a political term into the discussion was lordyam. He was writing about "racism" in the Conan stories. Nobody has used the words left or right at that point but as I said earlier, when you start talking about a possible Conan TV series in a Howard forum and one of the first things a "Howard fan" brings up is the "racism" in the stories it is annoying for some people. I'm not defending Megatron's aggressive tone, I just want to explain why lordyam's and your attitude doesn't go over too well with some people either. It's like you meet with some guys, want to have fun, open a beer, start talking about the hot barmaid and immediately get called a "sexist" by one of your friends. For some people, me for one, it looks like the person bringing sexism or racism into the discussion at the very beginning only wants to prove how morally superior and progressive he is. It's "virtue signalling" but to some guys it just signals that you're somebody I don't want to hang out with. I understand that things like Howard's depiction of races have to be addressed but the way lordyam and you go about it is annoying to people who don't want to deal with liberal's and feminist's favourite subjects in EVERY discussion. Certainly not when discussing the adventures of a barbarian that we all love who lived in a hypothetical world 12.000 years ago. You take the words right out of my mouth.
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Post by Aryeh on Oct 1, 2018 12:52:17 GMT -5
No, it did not start neither with me nor with Lordyam; it started with others who could not stop complaining about the left wing, even before there were any signs whatsoever that anyone has anything against this show -- see first pages of the thread.
Also, notice how I was avoiding politics, and then that when I started talking about it, it was exclusively because
A.) one of the first reaction to the news that there will be a Conan TV show was an article in The Guardian, implying that today's political situation is rendering Conan not just obsolete but also unwelcome;
B.) I wanted to show that Conan is not just for the right wing sympathizers, the way some people here wanted to imply.
All my interventions that contained political discussion were there simply because I was afraid that a word of mouth will be carried from this forum straight to the ears of those in charge of the Conan TV show, and that they will start having some reservations towards the project because of that word of mouth that says "Conan has exclusively a right wing fan base", which is not true.
Apart from that I agree with the many of the things you said here.
You just can't help yourself can you? As per the request of some members why don't you come discuss these political views on the thread started in the Off-Topic section? I'm sure you can find it as I had you in mind when I made the title...
As I said in my previous post, I started discussing politics once it has been brought up by other people in this thread AND after the mentioned 'Guardian' article was published (an article which was a direct comment to news about the Conan TV show). Therefore, I never strayed off-topic on this thread.
I really wanted this series to happen -- that was my primary concern in all my interventions here. You, on the other hand, said you were "glad that it is cancelled", and this is where we part ways.
From this you said, I understand politics is what interests you much more then Conan, so you want Conan to adapted according to your political views. I am on the completely opposite side: I wish for more Conan adaptations, independently of the fact where on the political spectrum the people that are adapting it are. In short: if Mel Gibson was serious about making a Conan movie, I would be interested. On the other hand, if Margarethe von Trotta said she wanted to make a Conan movie, I would again be hardly waiting to see it.
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Post by lordyam on Oct 1, 2018 13:31:53 GMT -5
I was a bit hyperbolic but it is annoying seeing everyone blame the left and sjws. Yes people on tumblr are irritating. However I’ve seen right wingers also try to shut up free speech or ban their critics from having a say (no it isn’t just the left. The right does it to.)
I like Conan. Hell I like Conan with a hot half naked woman. However some things will need to be changed. I mentioned the middle eastern stuff because there are a LOT of right wing conspiracies about how “da evil m00slums wanna rape our women or take over.” Hell there’s a lot of garbage about “rapefugees” which involve a combo of repackaging old racist propaganda and vastly oversimplifying statistics or other situations (most migrants don’t commit crimes and even amongst those who do it’s usually minor stuff like theft).
Even if the show runners were not trying to go there certain fringe lunatics would draw that meaning (sorta like how white supremacists like American history x even though the explicit intent was to condemn that kinda stuff). It’s not pleasant but that is the kinda thing you have to consider. I wouldn’t want scum like Pegida latching on to Conan.
There’s no easy answer to this stuff
You can keep the core of what Conan is without attracting idiots like the National Front and Pegida
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