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Post by Jason Aiken on Apr 19, 2020 20:48:10 GMT -5
1918 Spanish Flu historical documentary WW1 1914 - 1918 took about 40 million military and civilian lives. On the heels of the first world war the Spanish flue took tens of millions more lives, perhaps more than the great war itself, they also had some social distancing measures at that time, the second wave from September 1918 was deadlier. Much like today, many cities in the U.S. closed schools, businesses, and other public spaces during the 1918 pandemic. www.snopes.com/fact-check/second-wave-spanish-flu-wwi/Much of the reaction we see today is fueled by fear, but it is good to put things into context. The graph that shows how the Spanish Flu spiked again in the Fall of that year scares the shit out of me in terms of COVID19.
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Post by darklordbob on Apr 20, 2020 4:31:04 GMT -5
Didn't help that after the war ended people went out and celebrated. Understandable but definitely contributing to spread the flu around for round two.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2020 5:08:15 GMT -5
NOOOooooooooo
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Post by kemp on Apr 20, 2020 8:03:32 GMT -5
NOOOooooooooo
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Post by kemp on Apr 20, 2020 8:16:20 GMT -5
The graph that shows how the Spanish Flu spiked again in the Fall of that year scares the shit out of me in terms of COVID19. Tens of millions died from the Spanish flu, hence many governments prepared for the worst case scenario this time around. The Covid19 virus hit very hard in some parts of the US, Europe and east Asia, and had a smaller effect in other places, and then there is the fear of a second wave. I hope this is the worst of it, or at least close to that point. They have announced a move down in restrictions from Stage 4 to Stage 3 in New Zealand for next week. People here in Aus are itching to get some normality back in their lives, there are understandable frustrations, but this is coupled with observing the measures put in place, a balancing game so to speak.
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Post by zarono on Apr 20, 2020 8:48:42 GMT -5
NOOOooooooooo
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Post by kemp on Apr 23, 2020 21:24:09 GMT -5
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Post by Aryeh on Apr 23, 2020 23:02:51 GMT -5
'People chat and drink outside a bar in Stockholm, Sweden amid the coronavirus pandemic.' Look at that. Yes, I know we need some precautions, many people have died, but still good to know there is some normality somewhere.
Sweden status: confirmed Coronavirus cases: 16,755; recovered: 550; deaths: 2,021.
For comparison sake, let's see Austria, which had some harder preventive measures: cases: 14,932; recovered: 11,694; deaths: 522.
Or Israel (also strict measures): cases: 14,803; recovered: 5,611; deaths: 192.
I don't think it is normal to die for "normal", but that is exactly what is happening in Sweden. Numbers speak for themselves.
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Post by kemp on Apr 24, 2020 3:10:22 GMT -5
'People chat and drink outside a bar in Stockholm, Sweden amid the coronavirus pandemic.' Look at that. Yes, I know we need some precautions, many people have died, but still good to know there is some normality somewhere.
Sweden status: confirmed Coronavirus cases: 16,755; recovered: 550; deaths: 2,021.
For comparison sake, let's see Austria, which had some harder preventive measures: cases: 14,932; recovered: 11,694; deaths: 522.
Or Israel (also strict measures): cases: 14,803; recovered: 5,611; deaths: 192.
I don't think it is normal to die for "normal", but that is exactly what is happening in Sweden. Numbers speak for themselves.
About 24,000 people have died in Italy as a result of COVID19, 22,000 in Spain, many from complications due to pre-existing conditions, and most of the deaths happened after the lockdown policies. Of course there needs to be some measures in place during times of pandemic, but that has to be balanced and measured against the deaths from business closures and job losses in the long run as a result of the actions taken by respective governments to curtail the virus, and of course there are different factors to consider on a nation by nation basis. Fact is, that we all die for normal all the time, the world can kill you in many different ways, yearly flu’s and viruses, road fatalities, bad eating habits, mountain climbing……..list goes on, but we can’t all be wrapped up in cotton wool all the time can we now. What self respecting freedom loving barbarian would accept that !?!. I’m surprised a fan of REH’s works would be supportive of an all-encompassing nanny state.
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Post by Char-Vell on Apr 24, 2020 7:07:29 GMT -5
Most of us don't have the iron constitution of a Howardian barbarian.
I channel Dorian Hawkmoon's hypochondriac sidekick in this situation.
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Post by zarono on Apr 24, 2020 7:13:31 GMT -5
Horsemen gather on the horizon. If civilization collapses I don't think it will be a single knockout punch (unless something like a solar EMP hits while the system is weakened by the virus), more like a slow motion TKO spread over a decade or two as more catastrophic events batter weakened the system. Famine: "Could we have a meat shortage? Yes, grocers say, as processors close for coronavirus" www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242252356.htmlWar:
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Post by kemp on Apr 24, 2020 10:51:13 GMT -5
Horsemen gather on the horizon. If civilization collapses I don't think it will be a single knockout punch (unless something like a solar EMP hits while the system is weakened by the virus), more like a slow motion TKO spread over a decade or two as more catastrophic events batter weakened the system. Famine: "Could we have a meat shortage? Yes, grocers say, as processors close for coronavirus" www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242252356.htmlWar: From your linked article on meat shortage. “What people don’t realize is in the coming months, that’s going to be one of the biggest issues out there - is getting the meats and provisions, for not only restaurants, I hate to say it, but grocery stores as well,” Peter Cancro, chief executive officer of Jersey Mike’s Franchise Systems Inc., told Bloomberg.' One of my concerns, a disruption in the supply and service chains. War, famine and catastrophic events would also play their part in the destruction of our civilization. I think increasing tensions between China and the west will be something to keep an eye on.
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Post by kemp on Apr 24, 2020 11:21:48 GMT -5
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Post by kemp on Apr 24, 2020 11:28:00 GMT -5
Look at these images from a hundred years ago. Does it remind you of something ? A little disconcerting. The second wave was worse, it started to target younger people too, many robust twenty to forty year olds would die within the span of a day, or earlier, after showing the first symptoms, people described as turning blue, breathing problems, loss of sight and smell in some instances, bleeding in other cases. So much overcrowding in hospitals, sometimes nurses would tag the patient as dead hours before they died just so they could start the process of getting the bed ready for the next victim of the virus once the earlier occupant finally died. What you are seeing now, the various measures taken by governments, also that fear, is in preparation for something worse, something that may not come. It will be an uneasy next few months. Whatever happens, I don’t believe that this thing will hit different nations in the same way. My view is that we need some type of measures and restrictions during the worst of the pandemic, especially in countries with highly populated urban centers, but I think it is interesting to note the different strategies employed by various nations to try and deal with the COVID19 crisis. I noted Sweden earlier, but the whole country has a population of only ten million, only a little larger than NYC or London.
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Post by Aryeh on Apr 24, 2020 11:45:31 GMT -5
Sweden status: confirmed Coronavirus cases: 16,755; recovered: 550; deaths: 2,021.
For comparison sake, let's see Austria, which had some harder preventive measures: cases: 14,932; recovered: 11,694; deaths: 522.
Or Israel (also strict measures): cases: 14,803; recovered: 5,611; deaths: 192.
I don't think it is normal to die for "normal", but that is exactly what is happening in Sweden. Numbers speak for themselves.
About 24,000 people have died in Italy as a result of COVID19, 22,000 in Spain, many from complications due to pre-existing conditions, and most of the deaths happened after the lockdown policies. Of course there needs to be some measures in place during times of pandemic, but that has to be balanced and measured against the deaths from business closures and job losses in the long run as a result of the actions taken by respective governments to curtail the virus, and of course there are different factors to consider on a nation by nation basis. Fact is, that we all die for normal all the time, the world can kill you in many different ways, yearly flu’s and viruses, road fatalities, bad eating habits, mountain climbing……..list goes on, but we can’t all be wrapped up in cotton wool all the time can we now. What self respecting freedom loving barbarian would accept that !?!. I’m surprised a fan of REH’s works would be supportive of an all-encompassing nanny state.
But it is exactly you who are calling for more civilization when you call for "the return to normal". And it is exactly civilization which is -- in Sweden for example -- prepared to sacrifice people in order to preserve its "normal functioning". Civilization sacrifices people in order for the cafes to work, it sacrifices people in order for the economy to work, etc.
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