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Post by mingerganthecat on Jul 16, 2022 14:02:59 GMT -5
Someone calls the Iron Age "Ironia", we're going to look at them like they have a screw loose, aren't we? The Bronze Age isn't "Bronzia", nor the Copper Age "Copperia". And "Stonia" for the Stone Age is right out. It's THE HYBORIAN AGE, not "Hyboria" . . . "Antiquity" is a pretty common name for that rough time period. People refer to the Middle Ages as Medieval. And I've heard the Renaissance Era referred to as Renaissancia. Granted, the only person I actually knew who ever did that last one was my ex-girlfriend. Still counts. |
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Post by Char-Vell on Jul 20, 2022 7:32:20 GMT -5
I don't have strong feelings about it either way.
I suppose Hyboria is ok, as long as no characters within a Hyborian age story say it, that would be cringe worthy.
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Post by zarono on Jul 20, 2022 8:50:05 GMT -5
I'd say various companies started calling Conan's world Hyboria for trademark purposes, I don't know if I ever heard it called that before the 2000's but maybe it was in some products. I don't care either way if I like the product and they call it Hyboria I can live with it.
But in terms of what REH meant by Hyborian Age it's laid out pretty clear in his essay, he's referring to a tribe called Hyborians who spread across the continent while Conan's folk were still climbing out of apedom:
At the time of the Cataclysm, a band of savages, whose development was not much above that of the Neanderthal (proto-HYBORIANS), fled to the north to escape destruction. They found the snow-countries inhabited only by a species of ferocious snow-apes (prehuman ancestors of the AESIR/VANIR)—huge shaggy white animals, apparently native to that climate. These they fought and drove beyond the Arctic circle, to perish, as the savages thought. The latter, then, adapted themselves to their hardy new environment and throve.
"But in the north, the tribes are growing. These people are called Hyborians, or Hybori; their god was Bori—some great chief, whom legend made even more ancient as the king who led them into the north, in the days of the great Cataclysm, which the tribes remember only in distorted folklore."
"The tale of the next thousand years is the tale of the rise of the Hyborians, whose warlike tribes dominate the western world. Rude kingdoms are taking shape. The tawny-haired invaders have encountered the Picts, driving them into the barren lands of the west. To the northwest, the descendants of the Atlanteans (CIMMERIANS), climbing unaided from apedom into primitive savagery, have not yet met the conquerors. Far to the east the Lemurians are evolving a strange semi-civilization of their own. To the south the Hyborians have founded the kingdom of Koth, on the borders of those pastoral countries known as the Lands of Shem, and the savages of those lands, partly through contact with the Hyborians, partly through contact with the Stygians who have ravaged them for centuries, are emerging from barbarism. The blond savages (AESIR/VANIR) of the far north have grown in power and numbers so that the northern Hyborian tribes move southward, driving their kindred clans before them. The ancient kingdom of Hyperborea is overthrown by one of these northern tribes, which, however, retains the old name. Southeast of Hyperborea a kingdom of the Zhemri has come into being, under the name of Zamora. To the southwest, a tribe of Picts have invaded the fertile valley of Zingg, conquered the agricultural people there, and settled among them. This mixed race was in turn conquered later by a roving tribe of Hybori, and from these mingled elements came the kingdom of Zingara."
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Post by boot on Jul 20, 2022 12:56:42 GMT -5
It is suspected that Khitai has a strong, developed culture, and Khitai is on the map. I bet they would take issue with the world being called Hyboria, where Hyborians had nothing to do with their domination of the eastern side of the continent.
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Post by zarono on Jul 20, 2022 18:48:00 GMT -5
I'm going to take back my earlier statement about not seeing "Hyboria" mentioned before the 2000's, turns out Fritz Leiber's introduction to the 1978 Berkley paperback "Marchers of Valhalla" is titled "Birthpangs of Hyboria".  |
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Post by boot on Jul 20, 2022 19:53:05 GMT -5
I'm going to take back my earlier statement about not seeing "Hyboria" And the background chorus sings (to the tune of Aquarius): Hye bore eee ahhhh, HYE BORE EEE AHHH! |
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Post by zarono on Jul 21, 2022 13:02:29 GMT -5
I'm going to take back my earlier statement about not seeing "Hyboria" And the background chorus sings (to the tune of Aquarius): Hye bore eee ahhhh, HYE BORE EEE AHHH! I'm confused is this an attempt at humor or does it somehow advance the conversation? |
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Post by zarono on Jul 21, 2022 13:07:46 GMT -5
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Post by boot on Jul 21, 2022 14:12:08 GMT -5
And the background chorus sings (to the tune of Aquarius): Hye bore eee ahhhh, HYE BORE EEE AHHH! I'm confused is this an attempt at humor or does it somehow advance the conversation? Just being funny. Maybe not.  |
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Post by Von K on Jul 21, 2022 18:52:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the repost Zarono. Steve's essay is a classic on the topic. I never use the term Hyboria for the reasons Steve enumerates. To me it betrays a lack of fidelity in judgement regarding REH's material when people use it. |
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Post by mingerganthecat on Jul 21, 2022 21:56:19 GMT -5
I'm going to take back my earlier statement about not seeing "Hyboria" mentioned before the 2000's, turns out Fritz Leiber's introduction to the 1978 Berkley paperback "Marchers of Valhalla" is titled "Birthpangs of Hyboria". As far as I can tell, Tony Bath seems to be one of the earliest writers to commonly refer to the world of Howardian Pre-Pleistocene EuroAfroAsiatica (HPPEAA for short), or Howard's Yesteryear Bearing Obligatory Resemblances to the Imagined Antediluvian (HYBORIA for short), as "Hyboria." He does it in a 1960 article for War Games Digest, and a lot of his material in the 60's and 70's uses the phrase. So the concept of Hyboria is older than the majority of Conan pastichery. vintagewargaming.blogspot.com/2010/03/tony-bath-on-campaign-campaigning-on.htmlHe also refers to JRR Tolkien's Middle Earth as "Tolkia," which I've heard a time or two, but which doesn't seem to be quite so common. This is probably the indirect source for where I got the phrase, since I think my very first encounter with Conan of Cimmeria was somewhere in the realm of wargamming. |
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Post by zarono on Jul 22, 2022 9:35:36 GMT -5
I'm going to take back my earlier statement about not seeing "Hyboria" mentioned before the 2000's, turns out Fritz Leiber's introduction to the 1978 Berkley paperback "Marchers of Valhalla" is titled "Birthpangs of Hyboria". As far as I can tell, Tony Bath seems to be one of the earliest writers to commonly refer to the world of Howardian Pre-Pleistocene EuroAfroAsiatica (HPPEAA for short), or Howard's Yesteryear Bearing Obligatory Resemblances to the Imagined Antediluvian (HYBORIA for short), as "Hyboria." He does it in a 1960 article for War Games Digest, and a lot of his material in the 60's and 70's uses the phrase. So the concept of Hyboria is older than the majority of Conan pastichery. vintagewargaming.blogspot.com/2010/03/tony-bath-on-campaign-campaigning-on.htmlHe also refers to JRR Tolkien's Middle Earth as "Tolkia," which I've heard a time or two, but which doesn't seem to be quite so common. This is probably the indirect source for where I got the phrase, since I think my very first encounter with Conan of Cimmeria was somewhere in the realm of wargamming. Interesting stuff! Seems to me Tony Bath's wargaming could be the original source for the concept of Hyboria as an alternate descriptor of the world/primary region of Conan's age. To be clear I don't think REH ever mentioned the word Hyboria or intended Conan's epoch to be called anything but The Hyborian Age-still an good tidbit to add to Howardian lore and shows the scope of REH's influence on all manner of pop culture over the decades. |
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