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Post by Char-Vell on Jun 23, 2022 7:11:00 GMT -5
Pole arms were military battlefield weapons equivalent to an assault rifle.
Swords were backup sidearms, like a Pistol.
Spears were more utilitarian, but a little awkward to carry around if you were a wandering adventurer.
It makes sense that Conan and his ilk carry swords as their default weapon, just like old west gunfighters are portrayed carrying pistols for the most part.
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Post by zarono on Jun 23, 2022 8:21:48 GMT -5
Pole arms were military battlefield weapons equivalent to an assault rifle. Swords were backup sidearms, like a Pistol. Spears were more utilitarian, but a little awkward to carry around if you were a wandering adventurer. It makes sense that Conan and his ilk carry swords as their default weapon, just like old west gunfighters are portrayed carrying pistols for the most part. Spot on, Conan is the equivalent of a western gunfighter, everybody had some kind of a firearm in the old west but not everybody was Wild Bill Hickok. I don't think REH would have ever written a tale where Conan uses some kind of primitive firearm on regular basis it goes against the atmosphere of individual heroism he was setting in the Hyborian Age stories but there's all kinds of weird advanced technology lurking in the odd corners of that fantasy world just look at the wild stuff in Red Nails or The Slithering Shadow. |
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Post by Char-Vell on Jun 23, 2022 8:46:32 GMT -5
Pole arms were military battlefield weapons equivalent to an assault rifle. Swords were backup sidearms, like a Pistol. Spears were more utilitarian, but a little awkward to carry around if you were a wandering adventurer. It makes sense that Conan and his ilk carry swords as their default weapon, just like old west gunfighters are portrayed carrying pistols for the most part. Spot on, Conan is the equivalent of a western gunfighter, everybody had some kind of a firearm in the old west but not everybody was Wild Bill Hickok. I don't think REH would have ever written a tale where Conan uses some kind of primitive firearm on regular basis it goes against the atmosphere of individual heroism he was setting in the Hyborian Age stories but there's all kinds of weird advanced technology lurking in the odd corners of that fantasy world just look at the wild stuff in Red Nails or The Slithering Shadow. Cats like Nabonidus might have been packing some sort of Prehistoric heat. If Nabonidus had some sort of firearm he'd have used it on Thak I suppose. |
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Post by zarono on Jun 24, 2022 8:19:17 GMT -5
Spot on, Conan is the equivalent of a western gunfighter, everybody had some kind of a firearm in the old west but not everybody was Wild Bill Hickok. I don't think REH would have ever written a tale where Conan uses some kind of primitive firearm on regular basis it goes against the atmosphere of individual heroism he was setting in the Hyborian Age stories but there's all kinds of weird advanced technology lurking in the odd corners of that fantasy world just look at the wild stuff in Red Nails or The Slithering Shadow. Cats like Nabonidus might have been packing some sort of Prehistoric heat. If Nabonidus had some sort of firearm he'd have used it on Thak I suppose. I'm sure Nabonidus had some tricky stuff for personal defense, maybe something like Tsotha-Lanti's shimmering grenade globes but Tsotha didn't fair to well against Conan using them and I would say they wouldn't have worked any better against an enraged Thak. |
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Post by mingerganthecat on Jul 26, 2022 1:51:40 GMT -5
Is it possible that reliable recipes for rocket candy (saltpeter+sugar) was discovered before gunpowder, and that's what's being used here? Ships in general are weird in Hyborian Age. You have mention of galleons and dromonds sitting side by side in the same harbor, when those two ship classes represent almost 500 years of technological distance. In Black Stranger though, it's quite obvious that the story was originally set in Colonial America, and a few things got miss when he rolled it back to middle ages. REH doesn't elaborate on it so you can use your imagination. Concerning the ships; the Hyborian Age is a fantasy setting so advances/changes don't have to follow in the same order of real world history so you have things that seem out of place. I think REH did this on purpose giving him the ability to add in pretty much anything that he thought would make the story interesting (also remember the Conan tales were primarily marketed to Weird Tales so there needed to be some weirdness). The Hyborian Age Aesir/Vanir are good example, they are inspired by real world vikings but I don't think there's any mention of them being seafaring peoples in REH's tales. To the best of my knowledge Black Stranger was originally written as a Conan tale then changed over to a Black Vulmea pirate story to sell in a different market. There's been much discussion of how Conan's pirate gear in the story seems out of place but I think REH knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote it that way. The Hyborian Age was a strange time with many surprises. John C Wright made a similar observation with how the Hynorian Age was such an effective narrative device. No one would take a story seriously if it featured a Stone Age Celt leading High-Medieval Anglo-Francians against Antiquarian Egyptians. They would, however, accept a Cimmerian leading Aquilonians against Stygians. As for the Aesir/Vanir, I always think of them having more Iron Age Nordic than Viking Age Nordic tendencies. That would partially explain why they pray to Ymir instead of Odin, and it would explain why seafaring isn't such a prominent aspect of their culture. |
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Post by mingerganthecat on Jul 26, 2022 3:53:14 GMT -5
I remember discussions in the earlier forum days on whether certain Hyborian Age nations were more this time period or that time period, but REH just borrowed what he liked from different eras, a mishmash of historical time periods, albeit largely pre industrial. Dark Age Viking in the far north Nordheim, but without the seafaring, late medieval elements, city states, in the Hyborian nations, ancient Nile valley as in Stygia. Polearms, especially spears, would have been prevalent in the middle ages due to being cheap and easier to manufacture than say other weapons such as swords, especially true for infantry. Tactical advantages too. In fantasy movies they frequently give the hero a sword cause it looks cool. As pointed out firearms such as cannons and hanguns only became effective and dominated the battlefield well after the middle ages. I think the Ottomans used the arquebus long guns with some efficiency during the late 1400's, read that it almost had the same accuracy as the 17th century matchlock. I can see Conan using something like that, or a pirate flintlock pistol in some pastiche, nothing too contemporary though. Firearms were showing up in the Orient as early as the 1290's. A lot of the success of the Dia Viet was due to their early adaption of hand-cannons and fire-lances which were especially effective against elephants. The Hussites were among the first in Europe to really employ hand-held firearms to good effect in combat, some 30 years before the razing of Byzantium. Gunpowder technology was probably first seen in combat by Europeans in either the Mongol Invasions or possibly in the Crusades. Roger Bacon and Hassan al-Rammah were writing down gunpowder recipes in the 1280's, cannons and hand-cannons were in use in Europe as early as the 1320's. Most castles were being built with gunports and slanted walls to deflect cannonballs by the 1380's. One of the first "gunmen" in history may have been one Jehan de Montesiler, a contemporary of Joan of Arc. At the Siege of Orleans in 1429, he would stand at just out of bowshot and taunt English soldiers. Whenever they exposed themselves, he would shoot them down with a large-bore hand-bombard.  It probably looked a lot like this, though it might have been one of the smaller varients. That's from Bellifortis, 1405 German military manual. I've had a chance to fire one of these things and the accuracy really isn't that bad, at least not if you've had some practice. Have to unlearn a lot of things you remember from using modern firearms, but you could probably stand at just beyond spear-throw range and still have a fairly good chance of killing someone with it. |
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Post by zarono on Jul 26, 2022 11:14:45 GMT -5
REH doesn't elaborate on it so you can use your imagination. Concerning the ships; the Hyborian Age is a fantasy setting so advances/changes don't have to follow in the same order of real world history so you have things that seem out of place. I think REH did this on purpose giving him the ability to add in pretty much anything that he thought would make the story interesting (also remember the Conan tales were primarily marketed to Weird Tales so there needed to be some weirdness). The Hyborian Age Aesir/Vanir are good example, they are inspired by real world vikings but I don't think there's any mention of them being seafaring peoples in REH's tales. To the best of my knowledge Black Stranger was originally written as a Conan tale then changed over to a Black Vulmea pirate story to sell in a different market. There's been much discussion of how Conan's pirate gear in the story seems out of place but I think REH knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote it that way. The Hyborian Age was a strange time with many surprises. John C Wright made a similar observation with how the Hynorian Age was such an effective narrative device. No one would take a story seriously if it featured a Stone Age Celt leading High-Medieval Anglo-Francians against Antiquarian Egyptians. They would, however, accept a Cimmerian leading Aquilonians against Stygians. As for the Aesir/Vanir, I always think of them having more Iron Age Nordic than Viking Age Nordic tendencies. That would partially explain why they pray to Ymir instead of Odin, and it would explain why seafaring isn't such a prominent aspect of their culture. REH's version of Nordic mythology is quite a bit different than the real world, give Cairn on the Headland a read sometime for a surprising description of the true form of Odin in the Howardian Mythos. No way to know for sure since REH didn't provide any descriptive details on Ymir in Frost Giant's Daughter but I'm betting Ymir was something similar. For more on Howardian Aesir check out the James Allison stories, they are set after the fall of the Hyborian Kingdoms and before recorded history with the Aesir drifting across the Earth encountering strange things. |
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Post by kemp on Jul 27, 2022 8:21:06 GMT -5
I remember discussions in the earlier forum days on whether certain Hyborian Age nations were more this time period or that time period, but REH just borrowed what he liked from different eras, a mishmash of historical time periods, albeit largely pre industrial. Dark Age Viking in the far north Nordheim, but without the seafaring, late medieval elements, city states, in the Hyborian nations, ancient Nile valley as in Stygia. Polearms, especially spears, would have been prevalent in the middle ages due to being cheap and easier to manufacture than say other weapons such as swords, especially true for infantry. Tactical advantages too. In fantasy movies they frequently give the hero a sword cause it looks cool. As pointed out firearms such as cannons and hanguns only became effective and dominated the battlefield well after the middle ages. I think the Ottomans used the arquebus long guns with some efficiency during the late 1400's, read that it almost had the same accuracy as the 17th century matchlock. I can see Conan using something like that, or a pirate flintlock pistol in some pastiche, nothing too contemporary though. Firearms were showing up in the Orient as early as the 1290's. A lot of the success of the Dia Viet was due to their early adaption of hand-cannons and fire-lances which were especially effective against elephants. The Hussites were among the first in Europe to really employ hand-held firearms to good effect in combat, some 30 years before the razing of Byzantium. Gunpowder technology was probably first seen in combat by Europeans in either the Mongol Invasions or possibly in the Crusades. Roger Bacon and Hassan al-Rammah were writing down gunpowder recipes in the 1280's, cannons and hand-cannons were in use in Europe as early as the 1320's. Most castles were being built with gunports and slanted walls to deflect cannonballs by the 1380's. One of the first "gunmen" in history may have been one Jehan de Montesiler, a contemporary of Joan of Arc. At the Siege of Orleans in 1429, he would stand at just out of bowshot and taunt English soldiers. Whenever they exposed themselves, he would shoot them down with a large-bore hand-bombard. It probably looked a lot like this, though it might have been one of the smaller varients. That's from Bellifortis, 1405 German military manual. I've had a chance to fire one of these things and the accuracy really isn't that bad, at least not if you've had some practice. Have to unlearn a lot of things you remember from using modern firearms, but you could probably stand at just beyond spear-throw range and still have a fairly good chance of killing someone with it. Makes you wonder if there is a whole subset of enthusiasts making and testing medieval hand bombards. Have to look that up some time. |
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Post by mingerganthecat on Jul 27, 2022 10:28:45 GMT -5
veteranarms.com/Medieval-Handgonne-American-Hasta-Brand-p380105911Pretty sure this is where the one I shot came from. Not a bad price on there either... As for enthusiasts, I don't know if there's that many in the states, but it does seem to be fairly popular in some of the more gun-friendly parts of Europe, Italy and the Czech Republic in particular. A lot of Americans, myself among them, still hunt with muzzleloading black powder rifles.
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