Roland Green And Conan

[boot]

I own all seven of Roland Green's Conan adventures.  I've never read a single one of them.  I've tried to read Green's Conan The Guardian several times, but I can never get past Chapter 2.  By that time, I'm convinced that I'm reading a novel by an author that doesn't know Conan and the Hyborian Age well and thinks it is a time akin to a D&D generic fantasy world--which, we all know, is far from correct.

As it stands, I am determined to at least attempt to read Green's Conan books at some point in my life.  I'm just not in a hurry.

I decided to start this thread because I discovered something new about Green's Conan work today--an observation I'll share with you.  Each/most of Green's tales are continuations, or "next parts", of other Conan stories.

The book I've tried to read, Conan The Guardian, picks up immediately after Robert Jordan's Conan the Triumphant.  Conan and the remnants of his Free Company move over the border of Ophir into Argos.  The first big scene in the book happens at the Argossean border.



Conan The Valiant continues immediately after another of Jordan's books.  It picks up after Conan's victory over the Cult of Doom in Conan The Unconquered.



Conan The Relentless picks up after The Lair of the Ice Worm, which is a short story by L. Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter, published in Conan of Cimmeria.



Conan And The Gods of the Mountain follows Howard's Red Nails, and Valeria still travels with the Cimmerian.



Conan And The Death Lord of Thanza continues after The Star of Khorala, a novella by Bjorn Nyberg and L. Sprague de Camp, included in Conan The Swordsman.  In fact, there's an un-official series that involves the Star:  Howard's Shadows in Zamboula is followed by Leonard Carpenter's Conan The Raider.  That is, in turn, followed by The Star of Khorala and then by Conan and the Death Lord of Thanza.  In the story, we are introduced to the Countess Albiona, of whom we know will show up in Howard's Conan The Conqueror/The Hour of the Dragon.



Conan At Demon's Gate takes place when Conan's son is king of Aquilonia, and it references parts of Howard's Queen of the Black Coast.



Conan and the Mists of Doom seems to be the only Roland Green book that stands alone, without continuing from another previously published work.

[Lonewolf]

Looks like I own 6 of the 7 Roland Green's Conan Adventures (Guardian is one I don't have). Only one I have read was "Conan And The Gods of the Mountain", it was "ok"....
Valeria is written more like damsel in distress/side-kick than a companion, the (essentially basic) story is dragged out, and I can see the "D&D type world" comparison.

I know it's been discussed here and I think it was the thread/interview where John Maddox Roberts said it, but IMO most of the Conan pastiches suffer due to the length, a potentially good 200 page story is padded out to 375 pages due to publishers demands.

[themirrorthief]

I enjoyed Gods of the Mountain fairly well...not great but a decent read...I seem to recall reading most of Mists of Doom and thinking it was kind of ok...I tried valiant but couldnt get past a chapter or two. Green had another series which I cant recall the name of...it was his better stuff

[boot]

I think Roland Green and Steve Perry are bottom of the barrel, as far as the Conan pastiche's go. The prolific Leonard Carpenter is a notch above those two, but that's not saying much. Most other Conan writers I enjoy to varying degrees.

[alexander]

Red Nails is my favourite adventure of Conan - with Beyond the Black River - so I was quite excited to read Conan and the gods of the mountain. I was quite disappointed. It's ok but has little to no connection with Red Nails.
The mists of doom is probably one of the worst pastiches I've read (top - or rather bottom - 3-4): I found it dreadfully boring.

[themirrorthief]

yeah, I dont recall crap about mists of doom...maybe I got it mixed up with an Offut novel about cormac mac art

[kev]

I just finished up the third leg of the “Valeria Trilogy” after finishing Conan And the Gods of the Mountain by Roland Green. Here are my thoughts on the book and the “trilogy” itself.

This story happens immediately on the heels of Red Nail. Red Nails ended as it began with Conan & Valeria alone in the jungles south of Stygia, only now they are sans horses. The start of the novel is seamless with the end of Red Nails as Green even describes the tattered condition of Valeria’s togs exactly as Howard had described them.

As word of the demise of both the people of Xuchotl and the dragon guarding it quickly spread, Conan & Valeria are deemed to be a “unknown force” to be avoided and perhaps confronted by the locals. They quickly become entangled with two warring tribes of the great Lake of Death (a Lake Victoria analogue). The tribes, the Ichiribu & Kwanyi, are the central focus of this story as the pairs’ journey to the sea is once again interrupted.

This is my first read of a Roland Green novel. Over the years many Conan pastiche reviews have warned me against the works of Roland Green, but I came into this book with an open mind all the same. In fact, I wanted it to be good because that would mean there are six more Conan yarns I could partake in. Sadly, I am now in the camp that Mr. Green’s Conan is not worthy of the short time that Crom grants me on this Earth, and I will avoid his other six efforts.

So just what is wrong with the novel? Conan’s not out of character, and the Hyborian Age is not mis-portrayed (really it couldn’t be, because the entire story takes place in the bubble that involves these two primitive tribes in the jungle). So that leaves Mr. Green’s writing itself, and there are oh so many things wrong with it.

Participants & Characters of the Story:

While the plot is not overly complex (Conan joins with one tribe in their fight against the other) it is needlessly convoluted, and cluttered with extraneous characters. Not only are the two tribes at odds, one of the two tribes has an uneasy alliance with the “God Men” of Thunder Mountain (a cabal of shaman) each with their own agendas. A coup takes place within the cabal of Shaman that does not further the plot, it merely serves to replace one magic wielder for another.

There are spies spying on the Ichiribu, spies spying on the God Men, spies spying on the Kwanyi, all of whom are extraneous.

One particularly egregious example is the ink spilled on a slave of one tribe (who came from outside the two tribes) who is captured/liberated by the other tribe, but ultimately her story is merely dropped, leaving one to wonder why she was even introduced?

Structure of the Story:

Green takes almost one half of the 275 page novel for the two sets of protagonists (Conan & Valeria, and the Ichiribu tribe) to encounter one another. Granted the meeting of the two parties is well told but should have happened by page 20.

Green has Conan and Valeria spend the first half of the novel wandering aimlessly through an underground abandoned city, which may or may not have an affiliation with Xuchotl, but ultimately it simply doesn’t matter one way or another. Green does make an attempt in the end of the novel for a raiding party to move through the abandoned city (after the fashion of Big Trouble in Little China – which I’d bet he lifted the idea from) but the same could have been accomplished with a silent nighttime canoe assault.

Green has Conan engaged in a series of contests to see if he is worthy of joining the Ichiribu tribe, the last of the contests being a test to the death. So why relate the meaningless “preliminaries” and not just skip to the contest which means life or death?

The denouement sees Conan as a witness, rather than a participant in the climatic battle. A cardinal sin in a Conan book.

Finally, Green never capitalizes on the rather original concept, what are the ramifications of Conan upsetting the status quo by bringing about the demise of Xuchotl?  A huge missed opportunity.

Style of Prose:

If I had to give a one word description of Green’s writing style it would be “turgid”. Constantly going off on tangents (petty jealousies within the tribe, mending tattered clothing, the pungent sent of insect repellent, etc). Here is a typical quote from the book:

“Ryku heard the signal drums from the lookout post on what the Kwanyi called Great Gourd Hill. It neither grew large gourds, nor had the shape of one, so Ryku had always wondered how it came by its name.”

Why not call it Gourd Hill and be done with it? Green seems incapable of it.

Given all the above problems with his writing style Green was in desperate need of editorial oversight and input. If anyone ever needed the feedback from the editors of Weird Tales it was Green, not Howard. I would wager that another more disciplined writer could have taken the outline of Gods of the Mountain and excised 100 pages of it, and it would have improved the entire effort greatly.

Furthermore, Green’s writing simply isn’t gripping. His action scenes are not exciting, and his elements of horror are not all that eerie.

So, what does Green do right? He does have Conan capitalize on the knowledge he gained as Amra to integrate himself smoothly into the Ichiribu tribe. He does show Conan as a natural leader of men. And he does organically continue the relationship of Conan & Valeria (lovers by the end of the story). There I said something nice.

My verdict? 1 star, but I’ll round up to 1 ½ stars because the novel does continue the story of Conan & Valeria.



So that brings me to the end of the “Valeria Trilogy” written by three different authors, over the span of nearly 90 years, middle, then end, then beginning. All three stories do make for one singular cohesive story, as Conan and Valaria move from colleagues in a mercenary unit, to co-adventurers & friends, and ultimately to lovers.

For anyone who wishes to sample just parts of the “trilogy” I would say Blood of the Serpent cannot be read without Red Nails. Red Nails can of course be read as a stand-alone. And Gods of the Mountain could be read with, or without reading Red Nails.

One last thing, although Green has Conan and Valeria agree to go their separate ways (Conan inland and Valeria back to the sea) he does not actually describe it happening, so there is room in there for a further adventure should the Powers That Be deign it to be so.