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Post by robp on Oct 3, 2021 4:32:58 GMT -5
So Communist China is going "anti-woke" with concerns about "non masculine man." That must be confusing to the Western right "anti-woke" crowd, I mean do they support the Communists or not on this? Funnily enough, I found out the other day that Odin and Loki were pansexual, that must also be confusing for some. I hope that this will open the eyes of some people on the left who still defend China because they hope them to be a counterweight and alternative to America.
The pansexual thing is a very modern interpretation of the stories but so is heterosexuality. Zeus had Ganymedes too for example, still the Greeks didn't think of their God as bi or pansexual.
I've not really seen that in the UK. In fact when the Chinese leader was invited over for a state visit, it was the left protesting and the PM and Queen lining up to shake his hand. There's a long record of people here protesting human right's issues in China, not to mention all the more recent technological "innovations" they are using. In one Old Norse poem, Loki is said to have lived on earth as a woman for eight years, during which time she milked a cow (which the Norse saw as a feminine chore), had sex with a man, and gave birth to children. I'm not sure how else to interpret that. Maybe it was the introduction of Christianity that changed attitudes regarding gender and sexuality? |
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Post by robp on Oct 3, 2021 4:36:23 GMT -5
So Communist China is going "anti-woke" with concerns about "non masculine man." That must be confusing to the Western right "anti-woke" crowd, I mean do they support the Communists or not on this?Funnily enough, I found out the other day that Odin and Loki were pansexual, that must also be confusing for some. I guess, from the videos I've seen on YouTube this is considered a threat with western men going the opposite way with heroes no longer as masculine as they used to be in modern comics and movies  Maybe, who knows. But where is this happening? I mean we still have a ton of "ex-special forces soldier family is murdered he gets revenge" movies and similar, right? And I wonder if China is aware that the heroic Samurai of old wore make-up and had, er, young boy attendants? You would have thought they knew that. historyofyesterday.com/samurais-sexual-relations-with-boys-f6848801df80 |
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Post by cromfelge on Oct 3, 2021 4:59:24 GMT -5
I hope that this will open the eyes of some people on the left who still defend China because they hope them to be a counterweight and alternative to America.
The pansexual thing is a very modern interpretation of the stories but so is heterosexuality. Zeus had Ganymedes too for example, still the Greeks didn't think of their God as bi or pansexual.
I've not really seen that in the UK. In fact when the Chinese leader was invited over for a state visit, it was the left protesting and the PM and Queen lining up to shake his hand. There's a long record of people here protesting human right's issues in China, not to mention all the more recent technological "innovations" they are using. In one Old Norse poem, Loki is said to have lived on earth as a woman for eight years, during which time she milked a cow (which the Norse saw as a feminine chore), had sex with a man, and gave birth to children. I'm not sure how else to interpret that. Maybe it was the introduction of Christianity that changed attitudes regarding gender and sexuality? Sometimes happens in Germany atleast. The thing is that any PM or leader has to be kind of nice and opposition can be tougher on China. But here in Germany there is still some sort of feeling of alliance because of China's anti-imperialist and communist coating among parts of our left.
The thing about these stories is that gender and sexuality was something completely different back then. Christianity and Graeco-Roman culture shaped these categories but I think it is unfair to blame Christianity in that context because even though Christianity introduced heteronormativity as it is called today as well as strict monogamy, for a lot of cultures Christianity also introduced seeing women as actual human beings and not just property and objects (to some degree atleast).
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Post by cromfelge on Oct 3, 2021 5:01:10 GMT -5
I guess, from the videos I've seen on YouTube this is considered a threat with western men going the opposite way with heroes no longer as masculine as they used to be in modern comics and movies Maybe, who knows. But where is this happening? I mean we still have a ton of "ex-special forces soldier family is murdered he gets revenge" movies and similar, right? And I wonder if China is aware that the heroic Samurai of old wore make-up and had, er, young boy attendants? You would have thought they knew that. historyofyesterday.com/samurais-sexual-relations-with-boys-f6848801df80Samurai culture is Japanese culture, the cultural influence the Chinese want to get rid of. So it makes sense for them in that context. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2021 5:14:06 GMT -5
I guess, from the videos I've seen on YouTube this is considered a threat with western men going the opposite way with heroes no longer as masculine as they used to be in modern comics and movies Maybe, who knows. But where is this happening? I mean we still have a ton of "ex-special forces soldier family is murdered he gets revenge" movies and similar, right? And I wonder if China is aware that the heroic Samurai of old wore make-up and had, er, young boy attendants? You would have thought they knew that. historyofyesterday.com/samurais-sexual-relations-with-boys-f6848801df80I guess, we will always have those type of movies. |
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Post by kemp on Oct 3, 2021 5:26:42 GMT -5
In all honesty I miss the late twentieth century, you could enjoy watching movies with over the top action protagonists such as James Bond and Conan without someone telling you that these larger than life tough guy heroes that seduced all these hot women and could defeat any foe were sexist chauvinists. Sure, it was ridiculous, but fun escapism.
Other times you just wanted to watch Dustin Hoffman in the Marathon Man, one of my favourite actors, or what about Harrison Ford in the original Bladerunner, consider that the only two adversaries he dispatched were two unarmed women, one shot in the back, and that the male replicants he came across beat the crap out of him, saved by Sean Young in one of the encounters, in the other Rutger Hauer's Roy Batty decides to spare Deckard's life at the last moment.
Now everything is gender politics, and if you disagree you are labelled an alt right neo Nazi or some crap like that.
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Post by kemp on Oct 3, 2021 5:32:06 GMT -5
The suppression of transgender/LGBT representation in various media is not solely restricted to China, also occurs in Russia, Hungary, Poland and various middle eastern and African nations, but you could just as easily create a thread about the suppression of the traditional male hero in western media.
I think video game addiction in China is a bigger issue, impulse control disorder. Must be more than a few parents pulling their hair out unable to stop their kids dumbing themselves down playing video games 24/7.
I think they have anti gaming camps to combat the problem.
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Post by cromfelge on Oct 3, 2021 5:46:21 GMT -5
The suppression of transgender/LGBT representation in various media is not solely restricted to China, also occurs in Russia, Hungary, Poland and various middle eastern and African nations, but you could just as easily create a thread about the suppression of the traditional male hero in western media. Well the difference is whether it is organized suppression by law or not. Studios could still pull out high budget movies with traditional heroes like Conan if they wanted but they choose not to. I think we are slowly coming to the point where market analysists will realize that going 100% woke isn't profitable and they slowly come back to regular stuff. |
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Post by robp on Oct 3, 2021 7:59:13 GMT -5
Sometimes happens in Germany atleast. The thing is that any PM or leader has to be kind of nice and opposition can be tougher on China. But here in Germany there is still some sort of feeling of alliance because of China's anti-imperialist and communist coating among parts of our left.
The thing about these stories is that gender and sexuality was something completely different back then. Christianity and Graeco-Roman culture shaped these categories but I think it is unfair to blame Christianity in that context because even though Christianity introduced heteronormativity as it is called today as well as strict monogamy, for a lot of cultures Christianity also introduced seeing women as actual human beings and not just property and objects (to some degree atleast).
Yep, I guess it's always swings and roundabouts in that sense. I mean I know there is some cultural Christian legacy in the repressive sexual laws of some African countries. OTOH other Christians pushed for human rights across the board. Religion is often down to interpretation and degrees of "enthusiasm", shall we call it. I mean in the UK we had the divine right of Kings alongside the Levellers, for example. |
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Post by robp on Oct 3, 2021 8:03:48 GMT -5
The suppression of transgender/LGBT representation in various media is not solely restricted to China, also occurs in Russia, Hungary, Poland and various middle eastern and African nations, but you could just as easily create a thread about the suppression of the traditional male hero in western media. Except I don't really see that. I mean we just had a new Bond film released in the UK, we have actors like Tom Hardy and co, even Clint Eastwood released a film recently. I also don't get the panic over the "feminisation" of men, given what we know about Samurai, Spartans and other warrior cultures. Let alone Cavaliers, dandies, Musketeers, etc    |
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Post by kemp on Oct 3, 2021 9:02:41 GMT -5
The suppression of transgender/LGBT representation in various media is not solely restricted to China, also occurs in Russia, Hungary, Poland and various middle eastern and African nations, but you could just as easily create a thread about the suppression of the traditional male hero in western media. Except I don't really see that. I mean we just had a new Bond film released in the UK, we have actors like Tom Hardy and co, even Clint Eastwood released a film recently. I also don't get the panic over the "feminisation" of men, given what we know about Samurai, Spartans and other warrior cultures. Let alone Cavaliers, dandies, Musketeers, etc A woke castrated deconstructed Bond doesn't count, especially one with an actor who is so concerned about the women not being shown as sex objects. 'Asked if he would support a more diverse appointment as his replacement, Craig said: “There should simply be better parts for women and actors of colour. Why should a woman play James Bond when there should be a part just as good as James Bond, but for a woman?”' www.theguardian.com/film/2021/sep/21/daniel-craig-has-given-us-woke-james-bond-says-charlie-higsonWell, at least he says that Bond should still be played by a man. The director Fukunaga is worse, even accuses James Bond of rape in the past films such as Thunderball and Goldfinger, and of course there is all this enpowers women talk, and there you have it, another film disaster. All this relatable, accessible and modernised for a global audience talk by Hollywood is not doing anyone any good. I mean, for shites sake, are we talking about a James Bond film or some uni student union meeting of the 'progressives'. |
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Post by kemp on Oct 3, 2021 9:06:11 GMT -5
The columnist Madeline Grant said it best 'We hardcore Bond fans crave seductive escapism - not a morality tale of #MeToo and 'toxic masculinity' They would do better off if they had lines like this in the modern Bond movies. Bond Girl - "James, I can't, I'm on my period." James Bond - "Sounds like a bloody good time." Hahaha |
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Post by robp on Oct 3, 2021 9:24:42 GMT -5
Except I don't really see that. I mean we just had a new Bond film released in the UK, we have actors like Tom Hardy and co, even Clint Eastwood released a film recently. I also don't get the panic over the "feminisation" of men, given what we know about Samurai, Spartans and other warrior cultures. Let alone Cavaliers, dandies, Musketeers, etc A woke castrated deconstructed Bond doesn't count, especially one with an actor who is so concerned about the women not being shown as sex objects. 'Asked if he would support a more diverse appointment as his replacement, Craig said: “There should simply be better parts for women and actors of colour. Why should a woman play James Bond when there should be a part just as good as James Bond, but for a woman?”' www.theguardian.com/film/2021/sep/21/daniel-craig-has-given-us-woke-james-bond-says-charlie-higsonWell, at least he says that Bond should still be played by a man. Sorry, still not seeing it, or seeing Bond as being "castrated." And all he said was there should be some better parts for women, etc. If that is something you disagree with, fair enough, doesn't make the rest of us less manly. |
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Post by bonesaw on Oct 4, 2021 6:06:35 GMT -5
I never used to care about this kind of thing, especially the stuff swirling around among adults and their tug-of-war plight. When it comes to kids though, that's a different story.
There absolutely is a coordinated agenda meant to indoctrinate kids by Hollywood and it does involve emasculating of boys among other things. I actually don't have that big of a problem with China is doing. If we are in an age of mass-censorship anyway, between the two paths, I would rather be on theirs.
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Post by kemp on Oct 4, 2021 7:03:26 GMT -5
Well, at least he says that Bond should still be played by a man. Sorry, still not seeing it, or seeing Bond as being "castrated." And all he said was there should be some better parts for women, etc. If that is something you disagree with, fair enough, doesn't make the rest of us less manly. Years ago I watched 'Velvet Goldmine, not my cup of tea, but it was a musical drama that my friends wanted to see, about a fictional glam rock artist from the 70's, very loosely based on David Bowie, although he said if you get 5% right it's at least something. Anyway, it had bisexual and androgynous themes, but was well scripted. I didn't go away thinking it should have been a story about a straight action hero getting all the girls and nor did I look to subvert others from the subject matter or themes. When it comes to James Bond or Conan I don't want to have to think about gender politics and 'is this a better part for women'. Unfortunate that you just don't get it, but to each their own. |
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