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Post by Jason Aiken on Feb 24, 2023 10:41:00 GMT -5
There's really only two options: 1. License the Silmarillion and three first age books and create a First Age film or streaming series from all four. 2. License Tolkien's Fourth Age sequel that he barely started and let writers who are actually Tolkien fans expand it out. lotr.fandom.com/wiki/The_New_ShadowTolkien didn't think it was worth completing...but given the current state of affairs, it can't be any worse than what the Rings of Power hacks have planned. Allowing the current generation of Hollywood or London screenwriters to have a hand in this is a bad idea, though. Needs to be Jackson and Company in New Zealand with a NZ cast and crew.
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 24, 2023 13:13:39 GMT -5
There's really only two options: 1. License the Silmarillion and three first age books and create a First Age film or streaming series from all four. 2. License Tolkien's Fourth Age sequel that he barely started and let writers who are actually Tolkien fans expand it out. lotr.fandom.com/wiki/The_New_ShadowTolkien didn't think it was worth completing...but given the current state of affairs, it can't be any worse than what the Rings of Power hacks have planned. Allowing the current generation of Hollywood or London screenwriters to have a hand in this is a bad idea, though. Needs to be Jackson and Company in New Zealand with a NZ cast and crew. Streaming is out, it's film only for WB (or is it WD now?) And Silmarillion is still out, we're stuck with the four books we've had all along. The only thing I could see is the Young Aragorn parts of the appendicies, those can at least frame a story people who know the other movies can relate to and you can get Andy Serkis involved again since I think Aragorn ran into Gollum at one point. I'll take time away from parsing through the REH fragments to go through the back of Return of the King and see what else is there to work with.
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Post by darthgall on Feb 24, 2023 15:24:14 GMT -5
There's really only two options: 1. License the Silmarillion and three first age books and create a First Age film or streaming series from all four. 2. License Tolkien's Fourth Age sequel that he barely started and let writers who are actually Tolkien fans expand it out. lotr.fandom.com/wiki/The_New_ShadowTolkien didn't think it was worth completing...but given the current state of affairs, it can't be any worse than what the Rings of Power hacks have planned. Allowing the current generation of Hollywood or London screenwriters to have a hand in this is a bad idea, though. Needs to be Jackson and Company in New Zealand with a NZ cast and crew. Streaming is out, it's film only for WB (or is it WD now?) And Silmarillion is still out, we're stuck with the four books we've had all along. The only thing I could see is the Young Aragorn parts of the appendicies, those can at least frame a story people who know the other movies can relate to and you can get Andy Serkis involved again since I think Aragorn ran into Gollum at one point. I'll take time away from parsing through the REH fragments to go through the back of Return of the King and see what else is there to work with. So I did google about why the Silmarillion is out but only vaguely understand it... I guess the Tolkien estate sold those film rights in the 60's and some other entity still has first dibs? I'd appreciate if someone could post a one-paragraph "idiot's guide" to why Amazon only got the sliver of lore they did...
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Post by Jason Aiken on Feb 24, 2023 15:34:36 GMT -5
So wait just a minute... now Warner and Amazon are fighting over the leftover scraps from the same four books? Competition could be a good thing here. It can't be any worse from a story perspective than Rings of Power.
Also, why the fuck aren't the Silmarillion rights holders not doing anything with it? Option it to Warners ffs.
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 24, 2023 15:38:48 GMT -5
Streaming is out, it's film only for WB (or is it WD now?) And Silmarillion is still out, we're stuck with the four books we've had all along. The only thing I could see is the Young Aragorn parts of the appendicies, those can at least frame a story people who know the other movies can relate to and you can get Andy Serkis involved again since I think Aragorn ran into Gollum at one point. I'll take time away from parsing through the REH fragments to go through the back of Return of the King and see what else is there to work with. So I did google about why the Silmarillion is out but only vaguely understand it... I guess the Tolkien estate sold those film rights in the 60's and some other entity still has first dibs? I'd appreciate if someone could post a one-paragraph "idiot's guide" to why Amazon only got the sliver of lore they did... Short version: Tolkien optioned the rights to the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings back in the 60s, first possibly for the Beatles, then for John Boorman before the animated projects in the 70s. After that, the estate hasn't sanctioned anything else to be adapted. The only things anyone can use is what appears between the covers of those four books. Things got even more convoluted with the Hobbit but once the Jackson films got made, that seemed to go away. Amazon was able to get the rights to do something on television/streaming for that material while the Swedish gaming company got the rights to everything else. They then went back to Warner Brothers and apparently made this new deal to follow up on the anime film Warners was working on while they thought they still had the rights, so this should smooth that over. Two examples of what can be used and what can't: In the first Hobbit movie, Bilbo asks Gandalf how many wizards there are. He names himself, Saruman, Radagast and the Blue Wizards, but doesn't give their names since those only appeared in Unfinished Tales. He just says "I'm afraid I can't remember their names.." In the Rings of Power, Sauron (as Halbrand) mentions he's giving the elves a gift of how to make the rings. In the Silmarillion, one of Sauron's disguises is Annatar, whose name means lord of gifts. But it doesn't appear they'll be able to use that name so they slyly hinted at it. Christopher Tolkien really disliked the Jackson films so he was very averse to letting anything else hit the screen. His children have been more willing to deal with modern media, but thus far no deal has been struck to do anything with the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales or anything after that.
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 24, 2023 15:41:39 GMT -5
So wait just a minute... now Warner and Amazon are fighting over the leftover scraps from the same four books? Competition could be a good thing here. It can't be any worse from a story perspective than Rings of Power. I just went through the appendix...it's Major Kong territory (aka slim pickings). There's a lot of material on the Witch King of Angmar so if I were to guess, they'll either concentrate on Aragorn or the Nazgul. In other words...Aragorn.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Feb 25, 2023 0:38:18 GMT -5
Yeah, Aragorn is more commercially viable for sure, but a Witch King project could be interesting, too.
Speaking of Aragorn, this Hunt for Gollum fanfilm from 13 years ago isn't bad.
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 25, 2023 7:03:36 GMT -5
Yeah, Aragorn is more commercially viable for sure, but a Witch King project could be interesting, too. Speaking of Aragorn, this Hunt for Gollum fanfilm from 13 years ago isn't bad. This just hits all the right notes. I would expect them to head in this general direction, new stories with characters we know based on whatever material they can use. I can see A film, but filmS? If you thought the Hobbit trilogy was a stretch…
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Post by Jason Aiken on Feb 25, 2023 18:58:11 GMT -5
Nerd of the Rings gives his take, he's come to he same conclusions:
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 25, 2023 20:56:48 GMT -5
A War in the North film would have to have Jackson totally on board for it to work as a companion. The thing they have to think about is what story will get people into the theater seats. I think they may shy away from trilogies at first, they could build up to an Angmar series after they establish the concept of an anthology approach. Still going to put my money on Aragorn.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Feb 25, 2023 22:16:11 GMT -5
A War in the North film would have to have Jackson totally on board for it to work as a companion. The thing they have to think about is what story will get people into the theater seats. I think they may shy away from trilogies at first, they could build up to an Angmar series after they establish the concept of an anthology approach. Still going to put my money on Aragorn. Using the Star Wars franchise as a barometer, I think the real interest would be in some manner of a sequel. Not a prequel or sidestory. I think there is some information in the Appendices about Aragorn's reign and heir. Maybe they could use that as a springboard, taking the timeline forward without using Tolkien's abandoned The New Shadow fragment? It could be their Force Awakens.
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 26, 2023 3:07:52 GMT -5
A War in the North film would have to have Jackson totally on board for it to work as a companion. The thing they have to think about is what story will get people into the theater seats. I think they may shy away from trilogies at first, they could build up to an Angmar series after they establish the concept of an anthology approach. Still going to put my money on Aragorn. Using the Star Wars franchise as a barometer, I think the real interest would be in some manner of a sequel. Not a prequel or sidestory. I think there is some information in the Appendices about Aragorn's reign and heir. Maybe they could use that as a springboard, taking the timeline forward without using Tolkien's abandoned The New Shadow fragment? It could be their Force Awakens. There’s a little but not much. Nothing very exciting from what I recall. Hopefully they’ll learn from Star Wars: if you start a trilogy, know how it’s going to end. They’re basically ‘stuck’ with prequel material. No point buying the rights to something and not using it. Why try to come up with a totally new story when you have some ready for you? Maybe they’ll also learn from what Amazon is doing right and wrong. They really should’ve waited to see how War of the Rohirimm does but that’s not the way business works. I have to think Avatar’s success spurred things on (though do you know anyone who’s actually seen it?!?) plus they need to learn from Star Wars, Marvel and their own DCU problems. They can’t just throw anything up there and expect the audience to show up.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Feb 26, 2023 9:41:18 GMT -5
There’s a little but not much. Nothing very exciting from what I recall. Hopefully they’ll learn from Star Wars: if you start a trilogy, know how it’s going to end. They’re basically ‘stuck’ with prequel material. No point buying the rights to something and not using it. Why try to come up with a totally new story when you have some ready for you? Maybe they’ll also learn from what Amazon is doing right and wrong. They really should’ve waited to see how War of the Rohirimm does but that’s not the way business works. I have to think Avatar’s success spurred things on (though do you know anyone who’s actually seen it?!?) plus they need to learn from Star Wars, Marvel and their own DCU problems. They can’t just throw anything up there and expect the audience to show up. Good point about Avatar, that movie really came and went, didn't it? And yeah, despite making over a billion dollars I don't know anyone who went to the theater and saw it. If the anime War of the Rohirimm works out, I would be down for anime adaptations of the Hobbit and Trilogy. Either that or anime movies based off appendices material. This has to be a burr in the ass for Amazon, though, right? Now they find themselves having paid out the ass for something they have to share with a competitor. I get that it is film vs streaming, but they are still competing for content.
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 26, 2023 14:02:30 GMT -5
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 28, 2023 13:53:36 GMT -5
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