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Post by thedarkman on Feb 19, 2019 16:48:48 GMT -5
I don’t think Arnold is too old to make good movies, and I actually enjoyed a few of his recent films. Hell, I’m an Arnold fan from before he ever started making films. But he needs to make films that reflect his age and waning strength. I believe he can still pull off action-oriented thrillers that show him using brains and experience more than brawn. But I really don’t want to see a geriatric Barbarian shuffling around with plastic sword beating up on younger, faster antagonists. And if they use obvious stunt doubles for most action (like the embarrassing Steven Seagal), it will be a terrible flop. It’s time to separate Arnold from Conan and give the torch to the next star, like the Bond films.
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Post by kemp on Feb 20, 2019 7:57:32 GMT -5
Christopher Lee was in his eighties in the Star Wars prequels. Interestingly enough, Lee was also interested in playing Gandalf, but understood that he was too old for the role since he would have to ride a horse and be involved in more fight scenes. The role of Saruman was less physically demanding. He was still energetic in the role.
One thing is for sure, if Arnie is cast as Conan, irrespective of the work done by the movie crew, it would take a lot of work on his part. If there is a chance, it needs to be made right now, not years away.
Arnie's Conan the Barbarian is still the best Conan movie to date. At least there is that.
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Post by thedarkman on Feb 20, 2019 8:07:38 GMT -5
I would argue Arnold’s Conan ‘82 is the best “Barbarian” movie ever made, and it really is pretty good. The best Conan movie made isn’t even a Conan movie; but actually The Sword and the Sorcerer is closer to Howard’s spirit and uses several riffs from actual Conan tales. Your mileage will vary, however...😜
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Post by deepermagic on Feb 20, 2019 11:23:26 GMT -5
I actually think Old Man Conan with Arnold might be the best thing to get the ball rolling for any more Conan on film, be it TV or Movies. Simply because Arnold is old, no one is really going to expect another sequel with him. It'll give us and the public a side of Conan that we haven't really seen and I think a successful movie could spark enough interest that people would be willing to do something with Conan.
Of course the worst case scenario is that the film is poorly made, a flop, causing studios to be even more gunshy about Conan.
But the movie and concept of an old Conan seems to me to be a great idea.
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Post by kemp on Feb 20, 2019 14:51:18 GMT -5
The Sword & the Sorcerer was good, but there was no one by the name of Conan in it.
Thing is, there are not that many Conan films to stack them against each other. CtD was easily the worst of the three.
What's left !?! Arnie's CtB and Momoa's 2011 Conan.
I could be wrong, no official poll, but I think most prefer the 80's CtB over the 2011 Conan.
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Post by mindboggled on Feb 20, 2019 15:44:32 GMT -5
I would rather have a Conan film now then wait for a 'Howard's Conan stories translated to film' which is something that is impossible and will therefore never happen. The same way Arthur Conan Doyle Sherlock Holmes stories don't work when stretched to feature film length (and not even 'The Hound of the Baskervilles' which is longer never really worked as a movie), because of which the best Sherlock Holmes movie is 'Murder by Decree' which is not based on Conan Doyle, the same way Howard's stories cannot work if they are simply stretched and translated to the screen. One needs to include some elements from them while leaving out or replacing other elements; one cannot have three movies about king Conan threatened on the throne, so one has to merge and then leave out some elements of 'HotD', 'SC' and 'PhotS', while introducing some new story-lines which will cover the absence of characterization (which was not necessary in short stories). One cannot stay true to Howard because his Conan is still superstitious in some stories even when he is old and is a king, but in some stories which happen before he became a king, he is no longer superstitious and knows that all that appears can be wounded and killed--one excludes another. One cannot have two films in which princesses go out on the street to meet their savior; two girls in two different films escaping across the water; two islands with supernatural occurrences, etc. One cannot have both the Heart of Ahriman and the meteor dagger hidden beneath the city (doesn't matter they are different cities). And these are just the most obvious examples. The best one can do is repeat some of it, while creating an original structure into which those elements can fit. The way Milius did successfully. Milius wrote the script for the sequel, Milius has a talented daughter who is a filmmaker, Coppola said he would be willing to produce the new Conan film, Schwarzenegger says he wants to do it--I would have no problem if all of them were brought together tomorrow so they can create together a new Conan movie that will be out next year. I must say good sir, That I wholeheartedly disagree with your statements claiming that clean adaptations of Conan stories are impossible! Not only do I believe that they are very much so possible, but that it is the way it should be done. Repetition would only become a problem if all of Howard's Conan stories where adapted, including ones of lesser quality. This can be easily circumvented; once all of the good ones are adapted there is a vast plethora of fantastic pastiches to adapt from the Savage Sword of Conan magazines, and even some of the good prose pastiches. Even if only the good Howard tales where to be adapted, you've got Hour of the Dragon which could be made into nearly three hour feature length film. Red Nails into a regular length film. Beyond the Black River another full length film. Frost-Giant's Daughter and Tower Of The Elephant could be put together into one film of normal length; the former being the opening to the movie(with a title drop right at the end) and the latter comprising the rest of the film. And Queen Of The Black Coast another full length feature film. That's five films that do not have any repetitious elements to them. Besides, would repetition truly be problematic? Take a gander at current movie going audience, they eat up all the shit produced by Mcmarvel, every film they've shat out is unendurable similar to the other. And yet, people eat that crap up! By the way from what I have heard of Milius script for a squeal to Arnold's Conan-not even fans of Milius would enjoy it. |
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 20, 2019 16:02:45 GMT -5
The Sword & the Sorcerer was good, but there was no one by the name of Conan in it. Thing is, there are not that many Conan films to stack them against each other. CtD was easily the worst of the three. What's left !?! Arnie's CtB and Momoa's 2011 Conan. I could be wrong, no official poll, but I think most prefer the 80's CtB over the 2011 Conan. I think you're right...though you never know with this crowd  Sword & the Sorcerer was good...for what it was. Comparing John Milius and Albert Pyun as auteurs...well, speaks for itself. You can always squint and pretend you're hearing Conan when you watch Red Sonja or pretend Kevin Sorbo was really Conan in Kull, but that's doesn't exactly raise the Conan film quality quotient up. |
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Post by thedarkman on Feb 20, 2019 18:41:37 GMT -5
That’s what I was trying to get at; the spirit of REH’s Conan. The Sword and the Sorcerer is not a great film, but it had great heart and lifted some sequences directly from Howard’s tales. Too bad Milius didn’t try that.
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 20, 2019 18:53:36 GMT -5
To be fair you did have a theft from a tower based on an animal, a girlfriend coming back from the dead and a guy eating vultures while being crucified. The Howard spirit, I thought it was there though not strictly from Conan.
My dad is a huge Sword & Sorceror fan, but loves CTB too. He doesn’t know Howard but just wants a good movie to watch.
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Post by thedarkman on Feb 20, 2019 20:27:19 GMT -5
To be fair you did have a theft from a tower based on an animal, a girlfriend coming back from the dead and a guy eating vultures while being crucified. The Howard spirit, I thought it was there though not strictly from Conan. My dad is a huge Sword & Sorceror fan, but loves CTB too. He doesn’t know Howard but just wants a good movie to watch. True. It certainly pulled a few elements from Howard. I really like the film, and it’s well made and a joy to look at. But the slave aspect, the Riddle of Steel and Conan whining and crawling at Doom’s feet threw me off a bit. Otherwise a spectacular and bloody good adventure that still ranks as one of my all-time favorites. And I still believe movies from the 80’s are the best! |
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Post by charleshelm on Feb 20, 2019 20:46:11 GMT -5
Rumor has it that Sorbo did not want to be compared to Arnold so they changed it to Kull from Conan as it is really based more or less on a Conan story....
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Post by kemp on Feb 21, 2019 3:18:30 GMT -5
I thought CtB caught some of the Howardian spirit and tone, the nihilism, survival and struggle, some borrowings from REH. It was a good movie to watch, but it wasn’t REH’s Conan per se. I get that. I found that bit where Conan was a slave at the start of the movie a little cringe worthy, especially his initial reluctance to leave when offered freedom. The fighting was great in that it was raw and quick. The 80’s did bring out some good heroic fantasy movies. I am fan of the Sword and the Sorcerer. I will never forget the three bladed weapon that shoots sword blades. I took that very weapon seriously as a kid.  It was that time, the original Beastmaster, Hawk the Slayer and Krull also stand out for me, but it also had its stinkers, like Masters of the Universe. I know that directors and producers have always been at logger heads with the studio execs when it came to making movies, but it just seems to me that back in the 70’s and 80’s there was this spontaneity, sometimes it worked out, sometimes it came out cheesy or really badly, but it had life, you got the impression ( when compared to many offerings these days ) that it didn’t go through a multitude of boardrooms or something before the final cut. |
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Post by mindboggled on Feb 21, 2019 12:00:11 GMT -5
One of the things the 82 film messed up most for me was Arnold's dialogue. It did not seem like stuff the real Conan would say; like the backhanded prayer to Crom, and that conversation with subotai before the major battle scene about spring wind and pick'en blue barriers. Those are simply not things Conan would say. I also hated how reserved Arnold's Conan is, it's almost like he is incapable of speaking sometimes.
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Post by deepermagic on Feb 21, 2019 12:17:31 GMT -5
All you guys talking about The Sword and the Sorcerer had me looking it up last night. The only version I found that I could watch immediately was a Rifftrax version (like MST3K without the guys at the bottom of the screen).
I watched it anyway. I can see what some folks here mean by it capturing a bit of the spirit of Conan, but yeah that was a baaad flick. Not as bad as some S&S films I've seen though. The Rifftrax version was pretty hilarious. It's free to watch on Amazon prime.
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Post by Von K on Feb 21, 2019 13:40:22 GMT -5
I know that directors and producers have always been at logger heads with the studio execs when it came to making movies, but it just seems to me that back in the 70’s and 80’s there was this spontaneity, sometimes it worked out, sometimes it came out cheesy or really badly, but it had life, you got the impression ( when compared to many offerings these days ) that it didn’t go through a multitude of boardrooms or something before the final cut. The Solomon Kane director Michael J Bassett ran into that problem too. The studio forced him to run an origin story for Kane, which is why in the movie the Solomon Kane we all recognise didn’t fully appear until the last reel. But conversely, it must be hard for a studio to take risks when these days for a major cinematic release they've likely got upwards of 100 million of investor money riding on a project. |
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