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Post by deuce on Mar 15, 2017 2:18:53 GMT -5
In the Hyborian Age yarns of REH, Khitai is a mysterious place. We don't know if Conan ever visited that jungled land and we only see five Khitans in the entire saga. However, Khitai looms large nonetheless. An ancient land dreaming in the Blue East, a source of silk, sorcery and lotus. The Hyborian Age:"Many Lemurians escaped to the eastern coast of the Thurian Continent, which was comparatively untouched. There they were enslaved by the ancient race [the proto-Stygians] which already dwelt there, and their history, for thousands of years, is a history of brutal servitude." "In the distant east, cut off from the rest of the world by the heaving up of gigantic mountains and the forming of a chain of vast lakes [as a result of the Great Cataclysm], the Lemurians are toiling as slaves of their ancient masters." "Far to the east [sometime before the emergence of the Hyborian tribes in the West], the Lemurians, levelled almost to a bestial plane themselves by the brutishness of their slavery, have risen and destroyed their masters. They are savages stalking among the ruins of a strange civilization." "Far to the east [during the same period as the early Hyborian migrations] the Lemurians are evolving a strange semi-civilization of their own." The God in the Bowl:"The full lips opened and spoke a single word, in a rich vibrant tone that was like the golden chimes that ring in the jungle-lost temples of Khitai." The Tower of the Elephant:“They died without a sound!” muttered the Cimmerian. “Taurus, what was that powder?” “It was made from the black lotus, whose blossoms wave in the lost jungles of Khitai, where only the yellow-skulled priests of Yun dwell. Those blossoms strike dead any who smell of them.” "“All this we saw, neither aiding nor hindering the immutable cosmic law, and one by one we died; for we of Yag are not immortal, though our lives are as the lives of planets and constellations. At last I [Yogah] alone was left, dreaming of old times among the ruined temples of jungle-lost Khitai, worshipped as a god by an ancient yellow-skinned race." "“He brought me up from the lost jungles of Khitai where the gray apes danced to the pipes of the yellow priests, and offerings of fruit and wine heaped my broken altars. No more was I a god to kindly jungle-folk—I was slave to a devil in human form.” ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, that should get us started. One thing is obvious. Khitai has a lot of jungles. In fact, it may possibly be mostly jungle outside the cities. Also, it looks as if the Khitans aren't all bad. Yogah thought the ones he knew were cool.
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Post by kullagain on Mar 15, 2017 11:51:55 GMT -5
Maybe the Khitans de-evolved and became drug addicts after the disappearance of Yogah.
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Post by deuce on Mar 15, 2017 22:33:04 GMT -5
From The Hour of the Dragon: "We are sons of the East, not the South, and we have knowledge of all the wizards of the East, who are greater than the wizards of the West." Returning to his palace chamber, Valerius summoned before him four men of curious and alien aspect. They were tall, gaunt, of yellowish skin, and immobile countenances. They were very similar in appearance, clad alike in long black robes beneath which their sandaled feet were just visible. Their features were shadowed by their hoods. They stood before Valerius with their hands in their wide sleeves, their arms folded. Valerius looked at them without pleasure. In his far journeyings he had encountered many strange races. “When I found you starving in the Khitan jungles,” he said abruptly, “exiles from your kingdom, you swore to serve me. You have served me well enough, in your abominable way. One more service I require, and then I set you free of your oath." They were tall and gaunt, black-robed, and their faces were dim yellow ovals in the shadows of their coifs. He could not tell much about their features and was unreasoningly glad that he could not. Each bore a long, curiously mottled staff. “Who are you?” he demanded, and his voice sounded brittle and hollow. “What do you wish here?” “Where is Conan, he who was king of Aquilonia?” demanded the tallest of the four in a passionless monotone that made Publio shudder. It was like the hollow tone of a Khitan temple bell. A black-sleeved arm shot out, extending the long staff. Its end but touched the Shemite’s brawny breast and was instantly withdrawn. The stroke was horribly like the dart and recovery of a serpent’s head. Gebal halted short in his headlong plunge, as if he had encountered a solid barrier. His bull head toppled forward on his breast, the sword slipped from his fingers, and then he melted slowly to the floor. It was as if all the bones of his frame had suddenly become flabby. Publio turned sick. It might have been a trick of the light, but it seemed to him that occasionally those staffs moved slightly of their own accord, as if possessed of an unspeakable life of their own. The fourth Khitan drew imaginary symbols upon the carpet with his staff, which glistened scalily in the lamplight. “Who can look upon [the Heart of Ahriman] without desire?” said the Khitan. “In Khitai we have heard of it. It will give us power over the people which cast us out. Glory and wonder dream in its crimson deeps. Give it to us, before we slay you.” A fierce cry rang out as a priest leaped with a flicker of steel. Before he could strike, a scaly staff licked out and touched his breast, and he fell as a dead man falls. In an instant the mummies were staring down on a scene of blood and horror. Curved knives flashed and crimsoned, snaky staffs licked in and out, and whenever they touched a man, that man screamed and died. At the first stroke Conan had bounded up and was racing down the stairs. He caught only glimpses of that brief, fiendish fight—saw men swaying, locked in battle and streaming blood; saw one Khitan, fairly hacked to pieces, yet still on his feet and dealing death, when Thutothmes smote him on the breast with his open empty hand, and he dropped dead, though naked steel had not been enough to destroy his uncanny vitality. He rushed at the remaining Khitan, his empty hand lifted like a weapon, and that hand was black as that of a negro. But before he could strike, the staff in the tall Khitan’s hand licked out, seeming to elongate itself as the yellow man thrust. The point touched the bosom of Thutothmes and he staggered; again and yet again the staff licked out, and Thutothmes reeled and fell dead, his features blotted out in a rush of blackness that made the whole of him the same hue as his enchanted hand. The Khitan turned toward the jewel that burned on the breast of the mummy, but Conan was before him. Conan reflected that he had been fortunate in returning from the vampire’s chamber by another route than that by which he had been led to it. Otherwise he would have run full into these yellow fiends instead of sighting them from afar as they smelled out his spoor like human bloodhounds, with whatever uncanny gift was theirs. “It was a debt to pay,” answered the Khitan. “To you who are about to die I will not withhold knowledge. We were vassals of the king of Aquilonia, Valerius. Long we served him, but of that service we are free now—my brothers by death, and I by the fulfilment of obligation. I shall return to Aquilonia with two hearts; for myself the Heart of Ahriman; for Valerius the heart of Conan. A kiss of the staff that was cut from the living Tree of Death—” The staff licked out like the dart of a viper, but the slash of Conan’s knife was quicker. The staff fell in writhing halves, there was another flicker of the keen steel like a jet of lightning, and the head of the Khitan rolled to the floor. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Damn. Those Khitans were tough bastards. They seem somewhat atypical compared to what we know -- or think we know -- about Khitans. The "living Tree of Death" is certainly interesting. More "jungles" and "temple bells", though these bells are "toneless" while the "golden chimes" in GitB are vibrant. They may be two different classes of musical instruments.
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Post by deuce on Mar 17, 2017 16:58:10 GMT -5
"Then Poseidon wearied of Lemuria and of Atlantis [said the Lemurian princess]. He rose and shook his foaming mane, and his white steeds raced over the walls and the spires and the crimson towers. But he lifted me gently on his bosom and bore me unharmed to a far land, where for many centuries I dwelt among a strange and kindly race.
Then in an evil day I went upon a galley from distant Khitai, and in a hurricane it sank off this accursed coast."-- Marchers of Valhalla, final draft ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We don't hear much of Khitan maritime commerce, but that voyage involved sailing halfway around the world. Since MoV takes place long after Conan, it's possible the Khitans got serious about nautical matters after the period of the Conan tales and not before, but I doubt it. Much like the medieval Chinese in our own history, they were likely good sailors but tended to stay in their own corner of the globe. Of course, the ancient forebears of the Khitans were the Lemurians, who betimes raided Atlantis and Valusia in galleys.
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Post by deuce on Mar 21, 2017 9:43:04 GMT -5
From The Hour of the Dragon: Returning to his palace chamber, Valerius summoned before him four men of curious and alien aspect. They were tall, gaunt, of yellowish skin, and immobile countenances. They were very similar in appearance, clad alike in long black robes beneath which their sandaled feet were just visible. Their features were shadowed by their hoods. They stood before Valerius with their hands in their wide sleeves, their arms folded. Valerius looked at them without pleasure. In his far journeyings he had encountered many strange races. “When I found you starving in the Khitan jungles,” he said abruptly, “ exiles from your kingdom, you swore to serve me. You have served me well enough, in your abominable way. One more service I require, and then I set you free of your oath." They were tall and gaunt, black-robed, and their faces were dim yellow ovals in the shadows of their coifs. He could not tell much about their features and was unreasoningly glad that he could not. Each bore a long, curiously mottled staff. “Who can look upon [the Heart of Ahriman] without desire?” said the Khitan. “In Khitai we have heard of it. It will give us power over the people which cast us out. Glory and wonder dream in its crimson deeps. Give it to us, before we slay you.” Taking a look at Valerius' Khitans -- we'll just call 'em "V-Khitans" -- numerous questions arise about them and Khitai itself. One question has to do with their physical appearance. They are tall, which is not a general characteristic of REH's Lemurians or his historical Chinese. REH generally describes such as being of short or medium height and not generally of a lanky build, which is the impression given in regard to these V-Khitans. That said, Howard occasionally did feature tall Chinese in his yarns, often ones with some ties to Mongolia. The fact that the V-Khitans appear to be all from the same "kingdom", and thus -- perhaps -- indicative of that kingdom's normal phenotype, is what raises questions. Another major question raised has to do with the very political nature of Khitai itself. Is Khitai some sort of unified state/empire or does the name "Khitai" designate a geographical region inhabited by ethnic Khitans? Valerius found the V-Khitans starving in a Khitan jungle in exile from their "kingdom". This strongly indicates that Khitai is made up of more than one kingdom, but we'll return to this question. Here are two models from Chinese history, one semi-unified and one not, that REH could've used: www.chinahighlights.com/travelguide/china-history/the-tang-dynasty.htmwww.fsmitha.com/h1/ch14.htmFor now, I want to look at something seemingly unrelated...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 12:36:29 GMT -5
The Origin of Salome. "I?" The scintillant eyes burned like dark fires of mystery. "They carried me into the desert far from the city, and laid me naked on the hot sand, under the flaming sun. And then they rode away and left me for the jackals and the vultures and the desert wolves."But the life in me was stronger than the life in common folk, for it partakes of the essence of the forces that seethe in the black gulfs beyond mortal ken. The hours passed, and the sun slashed down like the molten flames of hell, but I did not die aye, something of that torment I remember, faintly and far away, as one remembers a dim, formless dream. Then there were camels, and yellow-skinned men who wore silk robes and spoke in a weird tongue. Strayed from the caravan road, they passed close by, and their leader saw me, and recognized the scarlet crescent on my bosom. He took me up and gave me life."He was a magician from far Khitai, returning to his native kingdom after a journey to Stygia He took me with him to purple-towering Paikang, its minarets rising amid the vine-festooned jungles of bamboo, and there I grew to womanhood under his teaching. Age had steeped him deep in black wisdom, not weakened his powers of evil. Many things he taught me—" She paused, smiling enigmatically, with wicked mystery gleaming in her dark eyes. Then she tossed her head."He drove me from him at last, saying that I was but a common witch in spite of his teachings, and not fit to command the mighty sorcery he would have taught me. He would have made me queen of the world and ruled the nations through me, he said, but I was only a harlot of darkness. But what of it? I could never endure to seclude myself in a golden tower, and spend the long hours staring into a crystal globe, mumbling over incantations written on serpent's skin in the blood of virgins, poring over musty volumes in forgotten languages."He said I was but an earthly sprite, knowing naught of the deeper gulfs of cosmic sorcery. Well, this world contains all I desire—power, and pomp, and glittering pageantry, handsome men and soft women for my paramours and my slaves. He had told me who I was, of the curse and my heritage. I have returned to take that to which I have as much right as you. Now it is mine by right of possession."
A Witch Shall Be Born, Conan of Cimmeria: Volume 2, p. 259-60
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Post by deuce on Mar 22, 2017 17:38:25 GMT -5
The Origin of Salome. "I?" The scintillant eyes burned like dark fires of mystery. "They carried me into the desert far from the city, and laid me naked on the hot sand, under the flaming sun. And then they rode away and left me for the jackals and the vultures and the desert wolves."But the life in me was stronger than the life in common folk, for it partakes of the essence of the forces that seethe in the black gulfs beyond mortal ken. The hours passed, and the sun slashed down like the molten flames of hell, but I did not die aye, something of that torment I remember, faintly and far away, as one remembers a dim, formless dream. Then there were camels, and yellow-skinned men who wore silk robes and spoke in a weird tongue. Strayed from the caravan road, they passed close by, and their leader saw me, and recognized the scarlet crescent on my bosom. He took me up and gave me life."He was a magician from far Khitai, returning to his native kingdom after a journey to Stygia He took me with him to purple-towering Paikang, its minarets rising amid the vine-festooned jungles of bamboo, and there I grew to womanhood under his teaching. Age had steeped him deep in black wisdom, not weakened his powers of evil. Many things he taught me—" She paused, smiling enigmatically, with wicked mystery gleaming in her dark eyes. Then she tossed her head."He drove me from him at last, saying that I was but a common witch in spite of his teachings, and not fit to command the mighty sorcery he would have taught me. He would have made me queen of the world and ruled the nations through me, he said, but I was only a harlot of darkness. But what of it? I could never endure to seclude myself in a golden tower, and spend the long hours staring into a crystal globe, mumbling over incantations written on serpent's skin in the blood of virgins, poring over musty volumes in forgotten languages."He said I was but an earthly sprite, knowing naught of the deeper gulfs of cosmic sorcery. Well, this world contains all I desire—power, and pomp, and glittering pageantry, handsome men and soft women for my paramours and my slaves. He had told me who I was, of the curse and my heritage. I have returned to take that to which I have as much right as you. Now it is mine by right of possession."
A Witch Shall Be Born, Conan of Cimmeria: Volume 2, p. 259-60 Right on. I was going to get to that before long, but this'll work. AWSBB is a major source on Khitai. Since the unnamed magician was her only tutor, we can surmise that her descriptions and practices of magic are largely drawn from those of Khitai. The "Khitan Magician" had followers, had journeyed to Stygia for undoubtedly dark reasons and he seems to have been quite powerful. He'd probably lived far beyond the mortal span, judging from her words, and would've undoubtedly been able to do far more powerful sorcery than his beautiful and wayward pupil.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 16:51:22 GMT -5
The Jade and Silk of Khitai in Red Nails.
Khitan Jade and Silk appear to be prized commodities. Looks like the Silk Road existed during the Hyborian Age. The Silk of Khitai is described as 'practically indestructible' Conan eyed the heavy portal dubiously, but placed his massive shoulder against it and thrust with all the power of his muscular calves and thighs. With a rasping screech of rusty hinges the gate moved ponderously inward, and Conan straightened and drew his sword. Valeria stared over his shoulder, and made a sound indicative of surprize.
They were not looking into an open street or court as one would have expected. The opened gate, or door, gave directly into a long, broad hall which ran away and away until its vista grew indistinct in the distance. It was of heroic proportions, and the floor of a curious red stone, cut in square tiles, that seemed to smolder as if with the reflection of flames. The walls were of a shiny green material.
"Jade, or I'm a Shemite!" swore Conan.
"Not in such quantity!" protested Valeria.
"I've looted enough from the Khitan caravans to know what I'm talking about," he asserted. "That's jade!"
The vaulted ceiling was of lapis lazuli, adorned with clusters of great green stones that gleamed with a poisonous radiance.
"Green fire-stones," growled Conan. "That's what the people of Punt call them. They're supposed to be the petrified eyes of those prehistoric snakes the ancients called Golden Serpents. They glow like a cat's eyes in the dark. At night this hall would be lighted by them, but it would be a hellishly weird illumination. Let's look around. We might find a cache of jewels."Red Nails, Conan of Cimmeria, Volume 3, Del Rey/Wandering Star, p.229 Some of the chambers lacked this illumination, and their doorways showed black as the mouth of the Pit. These Conan and Valeria avoided, keeping always to the lighted chambers.
Cobwebs hung in the corners, but there was no perceptible accumulation of dust on the floor, or on the tables and seats of marble, jade, or carnelian which occupied the chambers. Here and there were rugs of that silk known as Khitan which is practically indestructible. Nowhere did they find any windows, or doors opening into streets or courts. Each door merely opened into another chamber or hall.
"Why don't we come to a street?" grumbled Valeria. "This palace or whatever we're in must be as big as the king of Turan's seraglio."Red Nails, Conan of Cimmeria, Volume 3, Del Rey/Wandering Star, p.230
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Post by deuce on Mar 24, 2017 12:14:48 GMT -5
From The Hour of the Dragon: They were tall and gaunt, black-robed, and their faces were dim yellow ovals in the shadows of their coifs. He could not tell much about their features and was unreasoningly glad that he could not. Each bore a long, curiously mottled staff. A black-sleeved arm shot out, extending the long staff. Its end but touched the Shemite’s brawny breast and was instantly withdrawn. The stroke was horribly like the dart and recovery of a serpent’s head. Gebal halted short in his headlong plunge, as if he had encountered a solid barrier. His bull head toppled forward on his breast, the sword slipped from his fingers, and then he melted slowly to the floor. It was as if all the bones of his frame had suddenly become flabby. Publio turned sick. It might have been a trick of the light, but it seemed to him that occasionally those staffs moved slightly of their own accord, as if possessed of an unspeakable life of their own. He rushed at the remaining Khitan, his empty hand lifted like a weapon, and that hand was black as that of a negro. But before he could strike, the staff in the tall Khitan’s hand licked out, seeming to elongate itself as the yellow man thrust. The point touched the bosom of Thutothmes and he staggered; again and yet again the staff licked out, and Thutothmes reeled and fell dead, his features blotted out in a rush of blackness that made the whole of him the same hue as his enchanted hand. The Khitan turned toward the jewel that burned on the breast of the mummy, but Conan was before him. “It was a debt to pay,” answered the Khitan. “To you who are about to die I will not withhold knowledge. We were vassals of the king of Aquilonia, Valerius. Long we served him, but of that service we are free now—my brothers by death, and I by the fulfilment of obligation. I shall return to Aquilonia with two hearts; for myself the Heart of Ahriman; for Valerius the heart of Conan. A kiss of the staff that was cut from the living Tree of Death—” ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As I've said, this "living Tree of Death" is interesting. Apparently, the severed branches of it still retain a horrid sort of life, which is not that outlandish even without invoking the supernatural. I can testify to seeing a limb I cut from a catalpa tree leafing out six months later. The touch of these "Tree of Death" limbs is fatal, though the results seem to vary. Are there other references to this "Tree of Death" in the Conan stories or REH's other writings? It would seem so. First, however, click on this link: rafflesandjavablog.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/hello-world/The "Tree of Death" or the "Poison Tree", also known as the "Upas". REH had mentioned the Upas before in his writings: When the world was young and men were weak, and the fiends of the night walked free, I strove with Set by fire and steel and the juice of the upas-tree; Now that I sleep in the mount’s black heart, and the ages take their toll, Forget ye him who fought with the Snake to save the human soul?-- The Phoenix on the Sword“It was woven from the tresses of dead women, which I took from their tombs at midnight, and steeped in the deadly wine of the upas tree, to give it strength. I will go first—then follow me closely.”-- The Tower of the Elephant I warp and wither with drought, I work in the swamp’s foul yeast; I bring the black plague from the south and the leprosy in from the east. I rend from the hemlock boughs wine steeped in the petals of dooms; Where the fat black serpents drowse I gather the Upas blooms.-- "The Song of the Mad Minstrel" I suppose one can argue that they're two different things, that "the upas tree" was simply the tree known as ancar in Java and Antiaris to botanists: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AntiarisIf so, I have to wonder why Epemitreus was using the sap of a mere poisonous mulberry tree to fight Set, Dark God of Chaos. Set must be a far bigger wuss than I thought. So, where on this spinning globe does the Upas Tree stand in morbid menace and splendour? I think we have a clue from another Conan yarn: “The fall of the panels released the clouds of doom,” said the Red Priest with a wild laugh. “The dust of the gray lotus, from the Swamps of the Dead, beyond the land of Khitai.” -- Rogues in the House While I suppose one could argue for Siberia -- or whatever -- as being an alternative location for "beyond the land of Khitai", I think Malaysia/Indonesia makes by far the most sense. What better place for the "Tree of Death" than the Swamps of the Dead? It also fits nicely with the actual location of the Upas Tree as given in European accounts: Java. The region encompassing modern Malaysia and Indonesia which existed during the Pleistocene is called Sundaland. It held much more dry land in that period, albeit much of it was swampy. See map below. One final bit of circumstantial evidence is the REH short story, Serpent Vines, which was likely written before the Conan yarns. It involves a species of deadly plant which is vaguely similar to the Upas. The vines are found in " Indochina". ***Note: I think our own Zarono needs to do up an illo on the Upas Tree. There's nothing worth a damn out there on the Net. Ice Age Sundaland -- it possessed about the same area as the modern Indian subcontinent.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2017 9:48:34 GMT -5
What were REH's sources of information on ancient China and East Asia in general?
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Post by deuce on Jun 2, 2017 12:04:06 GMT -5
What were REH's sources of information on ancient China and East Asia in general? Good question! Judging from REH's bookshelf, Harold Lamb and Sax Rohmer would seem to be two major sources, along with Robert W. Chambers to a lesser extent. I would also say that various stories set in the Orient which were featured in some of REH's favorite pulps -- like Adventure -- would be likely places he found info. Talbot Mundy tended to set his tales in south and west Asia, so he likely didn't have much influence in regard to your question. One thing to keep in mind is that China and the East during the pre-WWII period were not looked upon by many pulp writers -- and others -- as being all that different from what they were during, say, the 1500s. IMO, there is something to that view. Cultural continuity has been a notable feature of the East for a very long time. Exceptions to that just serve to prove the rule. The REH Bookshelf: web.archive.org/web/20051223144402/http://www.rehupa.com:80/bookshelf.htm
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