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Post by trescuinge on Jul 6, 2017 20:58:17 GMT -5
Turlogh Dubh launches himself into Thorfel's skalli with a frenzied cry of 'Lamh Laidir Abú!', a battle cry that REH probably picked up in P.W. Joyce's 'A Short History of Ireland'.
Evidently, it was also the slogan of the Irish American Athletic Club:
www.happyhooligan.co/2015/01/irish-for-americans-abu/
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Post by johnnypt on Jul 7, 2017 8:50:29 GMT -5
That's a fair article, VK. The only real criticism I've read about the comic was from someone who thought that Howard's Conan could never find himself allied with Picts (and vice versa, I suppose). The artistic 'odd combo of Neal Adams and diverse hands' wasn't really that strange back then as Adams would often use artists in his studio to help him with inking jobs, including at least one colour Conan comic but maybe more. ...... The "Crusty Bunkers" did the inking on CTB #44 & #45 |
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Post by Jason Aiken on Jul 18, 2017 8:50:03 GMT -5
The Dark Man strikes me as one of the signature tales in REH’s opus, bringing together three of his favourite themes, the Gaels and the Picts and the outcast hero, in a historical dark fantasy which remains unique even among his own work, let alone historical fantasy in general. I referred to this as sword & sorcery, but that just doesn't seem quite right. I think you hit the nail on the head calling this a historical fantasy. It's a little closer to something H. Rider Haggard would write than one of REH's own Conan or Kull yarns. I haven't read any Cormac stories yet, but from what I remember from the Hawks of Outremer BOOM! comic I can see what you mean. Being an outsider back then had to have been a very depressing and melancholy experience. Seeing people living among each other in villages, or even people living with their families out in the wilderness, and the wanderer is all by himself. I got the sense from this that Turlogh would like nothing better than to return to Clan O'Brien, and his acceptance that it will never happen has left him in that somber mood. I'm currently making my way through Bernard Cornwell's Saxon Tales/Last Kingdom stories and it seems like the Vikings were in Irleand a good bit. With leaders like Ivar the Boneless and his sons being there, it's not a surprise some heavy raiding and pillaging went on, and some princesses were abducted. |
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Post by Jason Aiken on Jul 18, 2017 9:11:17 GMT -5
That was an excellent blog post in a format where you can clearly understand how Roy Thomas adapted this into the Conan story. I feel like I don't even have to read the comic now. I was thinking they probably swapped out Brule for Bran, for basically the same reasons that Mr. Rutledge posited. He's Brule's ancestory, and readers would know Brule from the Kull comics. That's interesting about Athelstane. I'll be on the look out for him in the next tale, then. That's a fair article, VK. The only real criticism I've read about the comic was from someone who thought that Howard's Conan could never find himself allied with Picts (and vice versa, I suppose). I could see that being a problem for some REH prose pastiche, but I tend to give the comics a much wider berth, as they aren't even close to canon in my mind. I could probably stomach the team-up, as I didn't find the DH adaptation of Wolves on the Border to be objectionable, albeit that was set toward the end of Conan's life it seems. |
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Post by johnnypt on Jul 18, 2017 10:45:09 GMT -5
The Dark Man strikes me as one of the signature tales in REH’s opus, bringing together three of his favourite themes, the Gaels and the Picts and the outcast hero, in a historical dark fantasy which remains unique even among his own work, let alone historical fantasy in general. I referred to this as sword & sorcery, but that just doesn't seem quite right. I think you hit the nail on the head calling this a historical fantasy. It's a little closer to something H. Rider Haggard would write than one of REH's own Conan or Kull yarns. I haven't read any Cormac stories yet, but from what I remember from the Hawks of Outremer BOOM! comic I can see what you mean. Being an outsider back then had to have been a very depressing and melancholy experience. Seeing people living among each other in villages, or even people living with their families out in the wilderness, and the wanderer is all by himself. I got the sense from this that Turlogh would like nothing better than to return to Clan O'Brien, and his acceptance that it will never happen has left him in that somber mood. I'm currently making my way through Bernard Cornwell's Saxon Tales/Last Kingdom stories and it seems like the Vikings were in Irleand a good bit. With leaders like Ivar the Boneless and his sons being there, it's not a surprise some heavy raiding and pillaging went on, and some princesses were abducted.
The difference between Black Turlough and Cormac Fitzgeoffrey is to me Cormac seems to more willingly embrace his darker side (guy walks around with a skull on his shield!) where O'Brien deals with the situations he's thrown into by unleashing his "black" side, but doesn't particularly care for the aftermath such as in Dark Man or Spears/Grey God (Bal-Sagoth he's more disappointed than sorry about how he's acted).
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Post by Von K on Jul 18, 2017 20:24:33 GMT -5
Interesting points gentlemen, thanks!
I can see where you're coming from johnnypt, re Cormac/Turlogh. I'll bear that in mind when I get to Bal-Saggoth.
Jason, I'm not sure if anyone has ever fully defined what Swords and Sorcery is, if it's even possible (could make for an interesting discussion), so I was kind of running on gut feeling by calling Dark Man historical fantasy.
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Post by deuce on Jul 18, 2017 21:24:02 GMT -5
Interesting points gentlemen, thanks! I can see where you're coming from johnnypt, re Cormac/Turlogh. I'll bear that in mind when I get to Bal-Saggoth. Jason, I'm not sure if anyone has ever fully defined what Swords and Sorcery is, if it's even possible (could make for an interesting discussion), so I was kind of running on gut feeling by calling Dark Man historical fantasy. I pretty much agree with Johnny. Turlogh seems to have been pretty somber up through TGGP, but not really "pissed" like he was after his betrayal and exile. CFG, on the other hand, was just raised pissed off, outcast and wild. The early lives of the two were quite different. As more than one scholar has noted, revenge and rage are CFG's two main driving forces. When push comes to shove, however, both "regress to the Howardian mean", as I call it. Under enough stress, most REH heroes end up in a primal killing state. Regarding a definition of S&S... Yeah, there's some disagreement. However, I really can't see how the "historical reality" of the setting puts a fantasy tale in one or the other category. Probably a good discussion for the S&S thread.  I'm surprised there hasn't been one on that thread yet, but there hasn't. |
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Post by thedarkman on Jul 18, 2017 22:52:15 GMT -5
Interesting points gentlemen, thanks! I can see where you're coming from johnnypt, re Cormac/Turlogh. I'll bear that in mind when I get to Bal-Saggoth. Jason, I'm not sure if anyone has ever fully defined what Swords and Sorcery is, if it's even possible (could make for an interesting discussion), so I was kind of running on gut feeling by calling Dark Man historical fantasy. I pretty much agree with Johnny. Turlogh seems to have been pretty somber up through TGGP, but not really "pissed" like he was after his betrayal and exile. CFG, on the other hand, was just raised pissed off, outcast and wild. The early lives of the two were quite different. As more than one scholar has noted, revenge and rage are CFG's two main driving forces. When push comes to shove, however, both "regress to the Howardian mean", as I call it. Under enough stress, most REH heroes end up in a primal killing state. Regarding a definition of S&S... Yeah, there's some disagreement. However, I really can't see how the "historical reality" of the setting puts a fantasy tale in one or the other category. Probably a good discussion for the S&S thread. I'm surprised there hasn't been one on that thread yet, but there hasn't. Hmm...looks like you're gonna have to start a new thread duece! Call it "What is Sword and Sorcery?" |
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fernando
Thief
I'm purist and proud! I hate insistent people! And I only give opinions when I'm ASKED!!
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Post by fernando on Jul 22, 2017 8:16:17 GMT -5
It's a great REH's tale indeed! Along with everything was mentioned here, I also loved seeing a 3rd Gonar there, in 11th Century A.D.  It's wonderful knowing REH 's Picts always had a Gonar, since Thurian Age to Middle Ages - and maybe in posterior centuries. |
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Post by ascalante on Dec 23, 2017 12:53:45 GMT -5
Obviously late responding here. Thanks for recommending this story. I thought it was a great and entertaining story. It had a low fantasy/historical fiction setting that made it seem both real and mystical. Again, very entertaining. I read it in the hospital when my wife was giving birth to my son, so I'll always remember that. Looking forward to reading more REH like this..
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I'm surprised there hasn't been one on that thread yet, but there hasn't.
It's wonderful knowing REH 's Picts always had a Gonar, since Thurian Age to Middle Ages - and maybe in posterior centuries.