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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 2:35:20 GMT -5
Here's the ongoing orders/sales estimates of the Conan related books (thanks to REH comics group):
Conan the Barbarian
#1 - 109,569* #2 - 43,638* #3 - 40,749* #4 - 41,010* #5 - 36,188 #6 - 32,108 #7 - 34,366 #8 - 35,955 Conan The Barbarian Exodus 1 30,522 #9 - 26,923 #10- 25,867 (Additional printings added to figures*)
Savage Sword of Conan
#1 - 49,640* #2 - 32,107* #3 - 28,679* #4 - 27,252 #5 - 25,935 #6 - 24,046 #7 - 23,029 #8 - 21,572 #9 - 21,106 #10-20,367 (Additional printings added to figures*)
Savage Avengers
#1 - 119,878* #2 - 67,618* #3 - 58,047* #4 - 49,893* #5 - 45.851* #6 - 56,025 SAVAGE AVENGERS ANNUAL #1 33,297 (*Includes additional printing)
Age of Conan
Belit #1 - 35183* #2 - 20,549 #3 - 18,001 #4 -15,649 #5 -16,201
Valeria #1 - 39,690 #2 - 23,409 #3 - 12,750 (Additional printings added to figures*)
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Post by Jason Aiken on Nov 18, 2019 16:44:25 GMT -5
Still well above where the Dark Horse books ended up, but those drops are disappointing. They really need to get rid of the Age of Conan title now that it's been fubar. Should just be CtB, Savage Sword, and Savage Avengers.
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Post by terryallenuk on Nov 19, 2019 15:00:10 GMT -5
Still well above where the Dark Horse books ended up, but those drops are disappointing. They really need to get rid of the Age of Conan title now that it's been fubar. Should just be CtB, Savage Sword, and Savage Avengers. There must be some disappointment with the figures , apart from SA , as although sales are well above DH's end game when compared with the corresponding Busiek/Nord Conan book CtB is only shifting about half of that.
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Post by Taurus on Nov 19, 2019 15:18:33 GMT -5
Why should there be any disappointment? I don't understand. Marvel's Conan is doing extremely well, specially if considered most of the material is second class.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 16:10:08 GMT -5
I think the main disappointment for Marvel will be the the sales figures for CtB. CtB is the main book and should be selling 40k or over on average to be successful. SSOC can never achieve those type of figures cos retailers just don't want to take the risk with the creative teams changing so quickly, don't forget retailers usually order a couple of months in advance. SSOC is all over the place, even if the recent issues have improved, the changing creative teams is not helpful at all, not for the comic shop owner or the customer.
The figures for Savage Avengers look good, but that's probably because it is the only Conan title with an actual story that you can follow and I have to begrudgingly admit looks like it will get better.
The real problem is that Marvel cannot go back to the good ol' days of Roy Thomas adaptations or even the recent DH stuff and have no real idea what to do with the character unless Conan is in the modern Marvel universe.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Nov 19, 2019 19:49:38 GMT -5
It's disappointing because retailers started out by ordering a lot and have now significantly reduced their orders. That means what they bought didn't sell.
First DH now Marvel, I'm really wondering if the audience just isn't there anymore.
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Post by Taurus on Nov 19, 2019 20:58:57 GMT -5
It's disappointing because retailers started out by ordering a lot and have now significantly reduced their orders. That means what they bought didn't sell. First DH now Marvel, I'm really wondering if the audience just isn't there anymore. The audience is there, waiting for adult stories, with an interesting deep complex character, living in a brutal era, full of not very politically correct people. There is so much to explore: violence is only one aspect. Conan could be, for example, portrayed as a "bipolar" man, sometimes full of happiness, sometimes imersed in deep sorrow. One thing I never enjoyed in Conan stories is how death is treated as a regular thing in one's life. Dealing with death night in and night out should take a toll in Conan's spirit (he is just a human being afterall). But it never feels that way. Killing someone is like finishing a task, nothing special. Depression, prejudice, misogyny, betrayal, sex, nudity, all of these things could also be worked out, not to be only agressive, but to promote reflection and debate based in a world that was created to be brutal and not fun at all. This could be a very refreshing aproach that would maybe (and here I am just being naive) catapult Conan to a whole new level. But Marvel decided that the cimmerian is only an idiot barbarian, with no brains, that is wandering the world, always pissed off by something and waiting for the next monster to be slashed. This is never gonna work. It is too shallow and one dimensional to grab the public's attention for an extended period of time. Marvel new Conan for me is just plain stupid, not more than that.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Nov 19, 2019 22:53:32 GMT -5
It's disappointing because retailers started out by ordering a lot and have now significantly reduced their orders. That means what they bought didn't sell. First DH now Marvel, I'm really wondering if the audience just isn't there anymore. The audience is there, waiting for adult stories, with an interesting deep complex character, living in a brutal era, full of not very politically correct people. There is so much to explore: violence is only one aspect. Conan could be, for example, portrayed as a "bipolar" man, sometimes full of happiness, sometimes imersed in deep sorrow. One thing I never enjoyed in Conan stories is how death is treated as a regular thing in one's life. Dealing with death night in and night out should take a toll in Conan's spirit (he is just a human being afterall). But it never feels that way. Killing someone is like finishing a task, nothing special. Depression, prejudice, misogyny, betrayal, sex, nudity, all of these things could also be worked out, not to be only agressive, but to promote reflection and debate based in a world that was created to be brutal and not fun at all. This could be a very refreshing aproach that would maybe (and here I am just being naive) catapult Conan to a whole new level. But Marvel decided that the cimmerian is only an idiot barbarian, with no brains, that is wandering the world, always pissed off by something and waiting for the next monster to be slashed. This is never gonna work. It is too shallow and one dimensional to grab the public's attention for an extended period of time. Marvel new Conan for me is just plain stupid, not more than that. You're living in fantasy land and not being realistic. Corporate comics will never publish anything close to that. Marvel has the Conan license and I doubt anything close to what you described is in their plans. Your best bet is to read old SSOC magazines.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 0:39:32 GMT -5
It's disappointing because retailers started out by ordering a lot and have now significantly reduced their orders. That means what they bought didn't sell. First DH now Marvel, I'm really wondering if the audience just isn't there anymore. The audience is there, waiting for adult stories, with an interesting deep complex character, living in a brutal era, full of not very politically correct people. There is so much to explore: violence is only one aspect. Conan could be, for example, portrayed as a "bipolar" man, sometimes full of happiness, sometimes imersed in deep sorrow. One thing I never enjoyed in Conan stories is how death is treated as a regular thing in one's life. Dealing with death night in and night out should take a toll in Conan's spirit (he is just a human being afterall). But it never feels that way. Killing someone is like finishing a task, nothing special. Depression, prejudice, misogyny, betrayal, sex, nudity, all of these things could also be worked out, not to be only agressive, but to promote reflection and debate based in a world that was created to be brutal and not fun at all. This could be a very refreshing aproach that would maybe (and here I am just being naive) catapult Conan to a whole new level. But Marvel decided that the cimmerian is only an idiot barbarian, with no brains, that is wandering the world, always pissed off by something and waiting for the next monster to be slashed. This is never gonna work. It is too shallow and one dimensional to grab the public's attention for an extended period of time.
Marvel new Conan for me is just plain stupid, not more than that. Yeah, it is really sad to see Marvel continue this approach of Conan as brainless materialistic savage with no intelligence in some of the recent issues. Maybe Jim Zub will be an improvement next year.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 0:49:12 GMT -5
It's disappointing because retailers started out by ordering a lot and have now significantly reduced their orders. That means what they bought didn't sell. First DH now Marvel, I'm really wondering if the audience just isn't there anymore. I dunno if it's the same in the US? But in the UK the retailers, what's left of them, just roll their eyes when they see anything REH or Conan related. They just don't think it is worth their time in comparison to the other Marvel titles they'd like to push. That's a huge obstacle before you even start trying to improve sales. Conan has always had to be exceptionally better than the other books in the market to survive, like back in the 1970s. That's a big ask for the creators on the Conan/REH related books in a comic book industry that is just about surviving these days.
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Post by Taurus on Nov 20, 2019 11:17:39 GMT -5
It's disappointing because retailers started out by ordering a lot and have now significantly reduced their orders. That means what they bought didn't sell. First DH now Marvel, I'm really wondering if the audience just isn't there anymore. I dunno if it's the same in the US? But in the UK the retailers, what's left of them, just roll their eyes when they see anything REH or Conan related. They just don't think it is worth their time in comparison to the other Marvel titles they'd like to push. That's a huge obstacle before you even start trying to improve sales. Conan has always had to be exceptionally better than the other books in the market to survive, like back in the 1970s. That's a big ask for the creators on the Conan/REH related books in a comic book industry that is just about surviving these days. I think Conan creators could do a LOT better. They are now underachievers.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 11:36:34 GMT -5
I dunno if it's the same in the US? But in the UK the retailers, what's left of them, just roll their eyes when they see anything REH or Conan related. They just don't think it is worth their time in comparison to the other Marvel titles they'd like to push. That's a huge obstacle before you even start trying to improve sales. Conan has always had to be exceptionally better than the other books in the market to survive, like back in the 1970s. That's a big ask for the creators on the Conan/REH related books in a comic book industry that is just about surviving these days. I think Conan creators could do a LOT better. They are now underachievers. Yeah, I think they could always do a lot better. The problem with Conan in the Comics medium is that it has all been done before. Marvel and DH have adapted the majority of the yarns a couple of times and filled in the gaps in Conan's career. Marvel need to do something different. The comics have been more successful in comparison to the pastiche works in prose, movies, games and animation. The comics have done their job, now they need a new, modern interpretation, it is only natural for the character to develop beyond REH's original vision in the comic books - even if the comic book industry is not as healthy as it used to be. It's gotta change even if Conan becomes the first mutant with a healing factor, it is something. Maybe it is time for Solomon Kane, Kull or Dark Agnes to have some of the limelight. They can at least develop, or evolve of you like, beyond the original source material by Robert E. Howard and be enjoyed by a wider comic book reading audience.
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Post by johnnypt on Nov 20, 2019 11:38:37 GMT -5
It's disappointing because retailers started out by ordering a lot and have now significantly reduced their orders. That means what they bought didn't sell. First DH now Marvel, I'm really wondering if the audience just isn't there anymore. There may be an audience, we just don't have a decent gauge of how large or small it may be. Comic sales these days aren't really indicative of anything except what a narrow segment of a larger audience will spend their money on buying a physical product. Heck, I haven't bought a physical comic since the end of the DH days. They have to believe Conan can be an integral part of their catalog of characters since they're integrating him far more heavily into things than the first time around. It's just a matter of finding something to capture people's ongoing interest. Right now it's fair to say what's currently being printed doesn't really thrill older or newer readers.
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Post by Char-Vell on Nov 20, 2019 14:21:39 GMT -5
Hopefully somebody at Marvel is on this forum, they could legitimately learn a lot here.
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Post by terryallenuk on Nov 20, 2019 14:27:39 GMT -5
Hopefully somebody at Marvel is on this forum, they could legitimately learn a lot here. At least Jim Zub is popping up on various Conan FB pages , nice to see him interacting with the fans.
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