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Post by danieljames495 on Oct 8, 2020 16:15:07 GMT -5
They really said that. smh. I don't have high hopes for this.
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Post by johnnypt on Oct 8, 2020 17:38:56 GMT -5
They really said that. smh. I don't have high hopes for this. Remember this is just someone at CBR, not at Netflix...yet. What would poor Margaret do if she ever read Beyond the Black River? Yeah, find something hopeful there. The only thing uplifting was Conan's mug towards the shades of Balthus and Slasher. I don't even want to think what would happen if she read Frost Giant's Daughter, Blatantly obvious she never read the originals if she wrote this: "But there's a core of rightness to Conan the Adventurer, an upbeat, irrepressibly '90s tone that reminds kids that strength alone doesn't make someone a good person, but that kindness, honor and loyalty are just as powerful." Which implies Howard's Conan lacks those qualities. 10 years later, people are still reveling in the ignorance that permeated the Wood run.
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Post by almuric on Oct 9, 2020 10:03:21 GMT -5
Well, that CBR article is the most clueless take on the new Conan series I've heard so far.
So far.
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Post by Char-Vell on Oct 10, 2020 4:37:35 GMT -5
They really said that. smh. I don't have high hopes for this. Sounds like they might be better off doing a live action He-Man or Dragon's Lair.
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Post by darklordbob on Oct 10, 2020 5:04:03 GMT -5
Fuck that. Animated Dragon's Laur is the only way to go.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Oct 10, 2020 6:15:20 GMT -5
It's just someone trying to push a narrative ahead of time. Nobody in there right mind will buy into that. If they do, they deserve to have their IP torpedoed.
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Post by stubbs on Oct 10, 2020 7:34:08 GMT -5
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Post by darklordbob on Oct 10, 2020 13:36:28 GMT -5
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Post by lordyam on Oct 10, 2020 22:31:52 GMT -5
They really said that. smh. I don't have high hopes for this. I'm not AS bothered. There are plenty of elements in Howards that work, but also some that aged poorly (the dark skinned hordes in black colossus, Vale of Lost Women). You can keep the otherworldly magic and political intrigue while reworking the skeevier elements. Hell 1d4chan of all places actually gives a surprisingly nuanced take on the subject. "Some fiction does have problematic elements, and all fiction has a certain degree of subtext woven into it (intentionally or not) by its creators and/or the general worldview of the day. For example, in a lot of 1950s fiction, female characters would usually be sidelined to supporting roles such as home keeper, while a male protagonist would be the guy who took charge and get shit done - even in a science fiction setting where many futurists would have speculated that women would take a greater active role in future society. Most times, writers consider the way things are done where they're from to be the way things "should" be, unless they're exploring a "what if" scenario or criticism of an aspect of their society. Tropes built around the worldview of a generation persist into the next and often serve as the foundation for that generation's works - it's part of human nature for people to write what they know, take their worldview for granted, and/or follow the leader without considering the implications. Though such tropes can serve as useful indicators of the author's beliefs and/or the cultural zeitgeist, many of these tropes also do not age well, becoming discredited in some fashion as society and attitudes towards history change over time; a fair number of MST3K episodes snark at this. Understanding how this process works, and the ramifications thereof, is a perfectly valid approach to identify problematic matters and address them in future works. This has far more practical applications than trying to be as inoffensive as possible merely for the sake of it, which often does the subject matter(s) a disservice - it is frequently an exercise in futility, and besides that, context is key. One series having metal bikini armor is not a problem (especially if its general tone is tongue firmly in cheek), but when that becomes the norm even in more serious works, especially without justification, then it's become an issue." As well as "There are numerous reasons why there's "pandering" in /tg/ media, beyond the points discussed above. For one, many companies want to broaden their consumer base by taking in new demographics. As the world gets interconnected and as society becomes more diverse, there is an increasing demand by people who aren't heterosexual white men to see people who aren't heterosexual white men in Western media, be it as the hero, getting the girl/guy, or "just" being more than a sidekick. (Matters of representation and diversity in non-Western media - such as China's film industry or India's Bollywood - and related questions of double standards/selective outrage in the complaints all fall under that aforementioned category "shit what wouldn't be done justice here"). Putting all your eggs in the established core demographic basket can be as disastrous as trying to appeal to a new demographic at the expense of that initial base (AKA "biting the hand that feeds you"). For example, the former was a contributing factor in the Comics Crash of 1996, focusing too much on the established fanbase at the expense of bringing in new ones by (for example) abandoning magazine stands for comic stores, only to lose it all when they failed to appeal successfully to either while driving much of that old fanbase away." Basically it's really god damn complicated. It CAN be done if handled with sensitivity and maturity but it's a fine line between being needlessly PC and doing necessary updates to avoid being crucified. Adding some more uplifting elements isn't necessarily a bad thing. In the show adaptation of Altered Carbon the asshole aristocrats are actually punished for their crimes whereas in the book they get off relatively free.
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Post by johnnypt on Oct 11, 2020 6:38:38 GMT -5
It doesn’t have to be TOO complicated. In the majority of the stories, the bad guys get what coming to them, that’s probably the most consistent ‘uplifting’ element. It’s funny how the particular writer mentioned it for Conan, I wonder how she felt about say the Marvel Netflix series. I enjoyed the heck out of them (yes, even Iron Fist to an extent), but there were a lot of stretches that were pretty damn dark and depressing. Yet the general consensus was this is what today’s audience wanted.
You can make simple changes to stories and still maintain their integrity: Conan just catches Atali so he can have the veil on his hand at the end, then she breaks free and has her father ‘rescue her’. The Tigress can be manned by a more motley crew of disparate pirates. Or my previous example of changing the Bamulas to Kozaki for Vale. They’re probably going to have to be a bit choosy about any of the whipping scenes.
I remember back when John Byrne was doing Spider Man Chapter One, where Peter and Doc Ock both recurved their powers in the same explosion, when people questioned why he changed it, his ever curmudgeonly answer was “He’s bitten by a radioactive spider, the origin didn’t change.” There’s ways to change things and ways not to. Focus on telling a good story and the details will work themselves out. Focus on changing the details and you’ll crash and burn.
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Post by KiramidHead on Oct 11, 2020 10:07:12 GMT -5
Even with the crew of the Tigress, you could spend a few episodes with them and develop a few of the side characters.
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Post by johnnypt on Oct 11, 2020 12:09:32 GMT -5
Even with the crew of the Tigress, you could spend a few episodes with them and develop a few of the side characters. Definitely. N’Yaga and N’Gora should remain as they were from the story. Now if they ever do Tombalku...that’ll be fun...
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Post by Jason Aiken on Oct 11, 2020 12:37:39 GMT -5
I really think people are overthinking this... given the stories REH left behind it would take a colossal dunce to use them as a basis and generate a turd. You'd almost have to be trying to fail.
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Post by johnnypt on Oct 11, 2020 13:09:34 GMT -5
I really think people are overthinking this... given the stories REH left behind it would take a colossal dunce to use them as a basis and generate a turd. You'd almost have to be trying to fail. Never underestimate people's ability to... Tell a good story, they'll watch. For all I know, I may end up loving those new Amazon fantasy shows. As long as I enjoy the story they're telling.
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Post by theironshadow on Oct 12, 2020 5:15:38 GMT -5
I really think people are overthinking this... given the stories REH left behind it would take a colossal dunce to use them as a basis and generate a turd. You'd almost have to be trying to fail. Never underestimate people's ability to... Tell a good story, they'll watch. For all I know, I may end up loving those new Amazon fantasy shows. As long as I enjoy the story they're telling. The film and television industries habit of overthinking programming is something they are all too entrenched in these days; they are terrified of pushing out something seen as basic and simplistic, instead when they could get a plethora of film graduates acting as consultants inhouse to fill the product with analogy and metaphor in either a visual sense or otherwise. I'll go with what James Cameron said. "Don't make it your priority to try and teach people; tell a damn good story and if you can put a message in there as part of the narrative progress, then go with it."
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