Conan TV Series in Development HELL at Netflix

[johnnypt]

Oct 12, 2020 5:15:38 GMT -5 theironshadow said:

Oct 11, 2020 13:09:34 GMT -5 johnnypt said:

Never underestimate people's ability to...

Tell a good story, they'll watch.  For all I know, I may end up loving those new Amazon fantasy shows.  As long as I enjoy the story they're telling.

The film and television industries habit of overthinking programming is something they are all too entrenched in these days; they are terrified of pushing out something seen as basic and simplistic, instead when they could get a plethora of film graduates acting as consultants inhouse to fill the product with analogy and metaphor in either a visual sense or otherwise. I'll go with what James Cameron said. "Don't make it your priority to try and teach people; tell a damn good story and if you can put a message in there as part of the narrative progress, then go with it."

And oddly enough, the one film of his where I think he beats you over the head with the message (Avatar) is the one film of his I don't like.  Heck I still haven't finished it over a decade later, I've seen an hour or so of the, what, 4 or 5 hours it is? (joking).  Peter Graves' speech at the end of It Conquered the World was more subtle.

I remember when they were finally going to release the original Japanese version of Gojira back in 2004.  And the articles were all about how vehemently anti-American the edited out footage was.  I watched it and...I didn't get that at all.  Anti-nuke?  Yeah, understandable.  But I found it was a more universal message.

Outside of Beyond the Black River,  I don't think there needs to be anything overt here.  Take away from it what you want.  Just make it watchable!

[Deleted]

Here's an interesting article from Grimdark Magazine:

FIVE THINGS NETFLIX MUST GET RIGHT FOR CONAN
BY MATTHEW JOHN


While details are sparse at the moment—with no mention of showrunners or writers—the news is out, and one niche corner of fandom has cause to raise flagons in celebration: Conan the Cimmerian is coming to Netflix! For years, sword and sorcery fans have been living through a drought and subsisting on scraps. Now, finally, we may be invited to witness a true feasting of swords!

Already, this announcement has sparked heated debate among the fan base. Some folks seem concerned that Netflix will, by default, change Conan’s gender, race, sexual orientation, and cook up a legendary ‘sjw’ stew from Robert E. Howard’s source material. Others seem worried that Conan’s masculinity will be scoured away and cleaned up for the comfort of the masses (even though Conan’s masculinity isn’t really of the toxic variety). While I’ve seen scant supporting evidence for these viewpoints, and believe these fears to be largely unfounded and rather silly—especially when I consider the success of other morally ambiguous series like Game of Thrones, Vikings, and The Witcher—this conversation has made me wonder what Netflix should do with this property if they wish to create a Conan show worth its weight in Ophirian gold.

Know, oh prince, these are the five ways Netflix can create a successful series out of Conan the Cimmerian.

Bring on the Violence!

Howard wrote action like no other. His scenes of blood and thunder are vivid, visceral, and most importantly, memorable. His special brand of gruesome poetry has become a hallmark of the sword and sorcery genre, often imitated, but rarely matched. This is an area where the choreography and effects crews need to deliver. Skulls should split like melons, heads should leap from shoulders, and Conan should awe the audience with his martial prowess. If gore hounds aren’t able to eat their fill each episode—if we fans are not talking ad nauseam about particularly violent scenes in tones of relish—something won’t be right.

(Finally) Get the Character Right

Conan is not as he’s often portrayed in pop culture. He’s talkative, on occasion, and can be surprisingly articulate. He is also intelligent, cunning, and opportunistic. He isn’t afraid to run from a fight if it means saving his hide. He isn’t the typical dumb barbarian so many parodies have made him out to be. Most importantly, the show must explore the Cimmerian’s peculiar sense of honor. His proclivity to protect his friends and keep his bargains are among his most endearing traits. Where civilized men spin cowardly schemes and plots, Conan must stand apart and become the moral center. Yes, you heard that right. Sure, he may be a thief, pirate, and usurper, and it’s fair to point out his drinking, whoring, and penchant for ultra-violence, but when you boil him down, Conan is a man of his word and a good friend to his allies. It is essential, then, that Howard’s driving theme of civilization vs. barbarism be on full display. Doing so is no small feat, of course, which brings me to my next point.

Get the Casting Right.

This is perhaps the biggest challenge. Look, I love Arnold Schwarzenegger, but the casting director must look beyond bodybuilders or wrestlers. While there’s an argument for Jason Momoa getting a second shot, this seems unlikely. Momoa is a great aesthetic fit for the character, as was Arnold, but there’s much more to bringing Conan to life. Whoever fills the sandals (and we should finally see him wearing sandals) will need to truly capture the character. In short, this show needs a great actor—someone with charm and charisma; someone who can brood and emote; someone who can express melancholies and mirth; someone you want on your team; someone you would never cross. The creative team needs an actor with range, and they need him to be an imposing physical specimen. That’s a lot to ask, I realize, but it will be essential if they’re going to make this work.

Respect and Represent the Source Material while Also Catering to the Medium

Mediums differ. You can’t just copy and paste short stories to the screen. A slavish adherence to the source material won’t work, period. And while they could hew very close without venturing too far beyond Howard’s yarns, they would quickly run out of budget and content. You have to be realistic about these things. Conan has had many careers—wanderer, thief, pirate, king. It isn’t unrealistic to think each season could focus on one or two of these periods in Conan’s life. While Howard’s stories should serve as the foundation, I fully expect minor characters—both allies and villains—to take on larger rolls. The show will need to focus on many intersecting plots, not just Conan’s. Using Howard’s tales as a springboard, the writers should expand and extrapolate.

Don’t Turn it into Generic Fantasy

The Hyborian Age needs to come to life. It needs to feel lived-in and real. Howard created a pseudo-history, one that reflects many kingdoms and cultures from our own. It is a curious mishmash of times, people, and places, but ultimately feels grounded. When the weird elements surface, they have greater impact because the settings and circumstances are believable. We should see ugly slums and shining kingdoms; bleak and ominous landscapes, but also wondrous vistas. We should be awed by ancient-world architecture, but also terrified by mysterious, forsaken ruins. The production designers have a golden opportunity here, and I hope they bring their A-game and receive the financial support they’ll require.

And there you have it. While it’s very tempting to consider which showrunners, directors, and specific actors might be best for the series, I always find it safer for my expectations if I focus on the what, and not the who. Surely, you have your own constructive thoughts on the matter, and I’m more than willing to listen. But whatever you do, don’t call on Crom; that grim bastard never listens!

Source:
www.grimdarkmagazine.com/five-things-netflix-must-get-right-for-conan/

[johnnypt]

Has Matthew been reading this thread? 😁

[Von K]

Thanks Hun. That's one of the most well-informed articles out there right now.

[theironshadow]

Thanks for posting that article, Hun, it absolutely nails it 100% with what Netflix needs to be doing with the series. Out of curiosity, if Netflix wanted to straight-up adapt some of the Dark Horse adaptations of Howard's tales, could they, or is that material owned by Team Marvel and thus Disney?

[monolith]

Good to see a live action Conan project moving forward. Every feral, savage and muscular actor will be eyeing this opportunity like a testerone fueled beast. Momoa seems to have grown into a Conanesq character, knives, axes, climbing, drink, etc. The Rock, probably the biggest actor around at the moment. Cavill, Witcher, Superman, Sherlock and perhaps Bond.. Too many iconic characters on his resume perhaps. Or a chance for an unknown to step up and make the role his own.
With a great cast and production team, this could finally be a fitting representation of Conan on screen.

[attilaman66]

I vote for an unknown.

[terryallenuk]

Oct 16, 2020 5:14:30 GMT -5 theironshadow said:

Thanks for posting that article, Hun, it absolutely nails it 100% with what Netflix needs to be doing with the series. Out of curiosity, if Netflix wanted to straight-up adapt some of the Dark Horse adaptations of Howard's tales, could they, or is that material owned by Team Marvel and thus Disney?

Although Marvel have the rights to reprint at present Cabinet have overall control of anything Conan so if they gave the OK that would be fine I'm sure.

[Von K]

Regarding actors I posted my opinion previously in the Conan's height thread with ironshadow and others.

Frazetta really captured the essence of REH’s Conan on canvass. He got the corded musculature, dynamism and grim battle-scarred demeanour down to a T in that regard. Even when he painted Conan standing and leaning on his sword you got a sense of the coiled power seething through that iron frame.

Then there’s the question of genetic constitution which can't be captured visually.

I think much more flexibility can be applied when it comes to discussing actors to portray Conan. REH probably had Jack Dempsey in mind as part of what went into the creation of Conan, as one element of the prizefighter part. Dempsey was 6’ 1" tall and 180lbs. So anything from that through Momoa up to a Clint Walker-ian 6’6”. Jack Palance could have fit the bill in his day. And I tend to generally agree with the possibility of Henry Cavil (who would also make a good John Carter in my view, one closer to Whelan’s version anyhow).

But it all depends on the right combination of acting skills, athleticism, and physical appearance.

[Deleted]

6 Things Netflix's Conan The Barbarian Needs to Do 
according to Anthony Gramuglia at CBR

Netflix is bringing Conan the Barbarian back. What are some things it needs to do to stand apart from prior adaptations and other fantasy shows?

Conan the Barbarian will rise again on Netflix as a series produced by Fredrik Malmberg and Mark Wheelers. This would mark the third separate continuity adapting the classic Conan stories, originally written by Robert E. Howard and later written after Howard's death by several authors, including Robert Jordan, Henry Turtledove and Steve Perry. For many, Conan might seem like an obvious story for Netflix to adapt, following the success of The Witcher and other fantasy series. Some might dismiss Conan as old-school swords and sorcery content, but these people are overlooking the sheer content available within the Conan saga for adaptation.

Neither the Arnold Schwarzenegger or Jason Momoa versions of the story faithfully adapted the original text. While each are memorable in their own right, there is a plethora of stories, characters and concepts that have never been incorporated into the myriad Conan adaptations.

Conan Must Evolve From Barbarian To King

The three Conan films thus far created feature Conan as a roaming swordsman, fighting brutal battles against insurmountable odds. However, as many fans of the Schwarzenegger Conan films remember, each film ends with the promise that Conan would one day become a mighty king, always teasing that the story would one day be told.

Unbeknownst to many fans of the films, the very first Conan story written by Howard, "The Phoenix on the Sword," featured Conan as an older king reflecting on his life before reliving his Barbarian days in a singular action sequence. If this Netflix series wants to live up to its potential, it can feature each season adapting a stage of Conan's life, from the barbaric thief to the conquering soldier to the wise ruler. It would allow Conan to evolve, becoming an almost Shakespearean character in the process.

Develop The Hyborian World

Worldbuilding has dominated modern fantasy, ever since Tolkien crafted Middle-Earth and its millennia-spanning history. People watched Game of Thrones not only for its compelling characters and dragons, but also to see how the power-structure of Westeros survived the army of zombies form the north and Dothraki from over-sea. When rewatching any iteration of Conan the Barbarian, however, there is a sense of disconnect between Conan and the rest of his world.

What's particularly odd, however, is how well-crafted Howard's Hyborian Age is. It's a pre-Assyrian civilization, existing like any ancient civilization, where they are closer to the eldritch knowledge of magic. For example, Conan's race, the Cimmerians, are based on the Celtic people. They exist in a world after the fall of Atlantis, and, as such, should exist as prototypes of the older civilization. A series would need to depict the various civilizations and their relationship to magic and the eldritch in order to show Conan's rise to power in a meaningful light.

Tone Down The Racism

Howard's writing, much like that of his friend and fellow Weird Tales writer H.P. Lovecraft, reflects several fairly racist ideologies. Howard's depiction of Black, Jewish, Asian and Middle-Eastern people is problematic at best and horrendous at worst. These characters are invariably evil wizards, scheming thieves, rapists or murderous savages.

This is a problem that literally every adaptation and continuation of Howard's work has grappled with. While the two Schwarzenegger films include problematic elements, the worlds are at the very least diversely populated. Yes, Conan the Destroyer's diverse cast draws heavily from racial stereotypes, but it remains a huge step-up from the extreme racism of the short stories. The new adaptation should go even further in creating a world of various cultures with different priorities and cultural standards.

Add More Female Characters

Modern fantasy has some incredible female characters. However, dating back to the '60s and '70s with the creation of characters like Red Sonja, fantasy writers responded to the distinct lack of powerful women by creating their own. The majority of Howard's original stories featured women as hostages or prizes to be won. Later Conan stories featured more insightful and powerful women who could challenge Conan and his skills.

Any new adaptation of the Conan mythos will need to create new women to challenge Conan both physically or intellectually. Bring on queens, witches and barbarians. While Conan's sexual escapades have become a prominent feature over the years, the writers should create women who have no sexual interest in Conan whatsoever.

Feature Other Howard Characters

Robert E. Howard is best known for Conan, but he has a plethora of other characters who exist in alternate periods in his fantasy Earth. The addition of these well-developed characters could add dimension to the world, allowing writers to add nods to classic Howard stories

As mentioned before, Conan exists in the Hyborian Age. Before Conan, there was Kull, who existed in the Thurian Age as an Atlantean barbarian and king -- much like Conan. Kull and Conan could in theory exist in the same age, should the writers smudge the timeline or include Kull as a survivor of the Atlantean race. Kull even had a film based on him in 1997: Kull the Conqueror. Other characters Howard created included Solomon Kane, who also had a film of the same name based on him. However, Solomon existed during the age of the Tudors, wandering the world to slay evil of all kinds. He's a haunting character who could lend himself well to the series, because any future Conan the Barbarian adaptation will need to lean into its horror roots.

Bring In Cthulhu

As mentioned before, Lovecraft and Howard were contemporaries. The two sent written correspondence between one another for years. Howard often paid tribute to his friend by adding Lovecraftian monsters in his work, while Lovecraft would pay tribute to Howard by acknowledging the Hyborian Age and Conan in his horror stories. This means that Lovecraft's horrifying entities, from Cthulhu to Dagon to Yog-Sothoth, are not only canon in Conan, but play an active role in the narrative.

A future Conan adaptation will have access to the public domain characters created by Lovecraft, which means that this new adaptation of the Conan Mythos can include Lovecraftian horror. So far, only one of the three films -- Conan the Destroyer -- even attempted to incorporate Dark Gods and monsters into their narrative. If the Necronomicon plays an active role in the events of Conan, it might allow Conan to go sword-to-tentacle with Cthulhu and other monsters beyond space and time, which would result in something heretofore unseen on television. Want Netflix's Conan the Barbarian to stand out? Have him cut Cthulhu's head off.


Source:
www.cbr.com/6-things-netflixs-conan-the-barbarian-needs-to-do/

[johnnypt]

Better, CBR, better.

[zarono]

I think the article makes good points all around except for the last part about directly importing Lovecraft's Mythos as adversaries for Conan, there's no need because REH has plenty of lovecraftian horrors of his own creation that need to be brought the screen. Thog from The Slithering Shadow could be nightmarish if the monster scenes were created for real horror and weirdness, more like Ridley Scott's 1979 Alien instead of Dagoth in Conan the Destroyer.

[charleshelm]

The Kull movie wasn't really a Kull movie, they just changed it from Conan to avoid comparisons to Aaaahnold.

They should avoid Marvel comics crossover-style mixing of Howard characters from different timelines.

As soon as they text or email me I will explain all to them.

[Von K]

Oct 23, 2020 21:06:35 GMT -5 zarono said:

I think the article makes good points all around except for the last part about directly importing Lovecraft's Mythos as adversaries for Conan, there's no need because REH has plenty of lovecraftian horrors of his own creation that need to be brought the screen. Thog from The Slithering Shadow could be nightmarish if the monster scenes were created for real horror and weirdness, more like Ridley Scott's 1979 Alien instead of Dagoth in Conan the Destroyer.

Agreed. Using Lovecraft's Mythos directly in the Conan yarns was something REH himself consciously avoided. The only one he even alluded to in the Conan yarns was Tsathoggua and he was a shared creation between the Three Musketeers of Weird Tales. Only Deuce, Keith, yourself and a few other dedicated REH scholars know the full complexities thereof.

The first two Alien films are a good analogy. The creator's of the Alien franchise were consciously influenced by the old pulp yarns esp Clark Ashton Smith. Compare for instance aspects of Alien with Smith's Vaults of Yoh-Vombis, which had its own brand of face-huggers. Ridley Scott's team did a fantastic job of evoking the kind of alien atmospheric effects created by Smith with his prose in Yoh-Vombis.

[zarono]

Oct 24, 2020 12:30:52 GMT -5 Von K said:

Oct 23, 2020 21:06:35 GMT -5 zarono said:

I think the article makes good points all around except for the last part about directly importing Lovecraft's Mythos as adversaries for Conan, there's no need because REH has plenty of lovecraftian horrors of his own creation that need to be brought the screen. Thog from The Slithering Shadow could be nightmarish if the monster scenes were created for real horror and weirdness, more like Ridley Scott's 1979 Alien instead of Dagoth in Conan the Destroyer.

Agreed. Using Lovecraft's Mythos directly in the Conan yarns was something REH himself consciously avoided. The only one he even alluded to in the Conan yarns was Tsathoggua and he was a shared creation between the Three Musketeers of Weird Tales. Only Deuce, Keith, yourself and a few other dedicated REH scholars know the full complexities thereof.

The first two Alien films are a good analogy. The creator's of the Alien franchise were consciously influenced by the old pulp yarns esp Clark Ashton Smith. Compare for instance aspects of Alien with Smith's Vaults of Yoh-Vombis, which had its own brand of face-huggers. Ridley Scott's team did a fantastic job of evoking the kind of alien atmospheric effects created by Smith with his prose in Yoh-Vombis.

If only netflix would do a CAS anthology series 
It's too early to speculate but I hope Netflix gets directors and showrunners who can understand the varied nature of individual Conan stories and the power Of REH's writing, The Tower of the Elephant and The Frost Giant's Daughter are very short stories but in those little packages you get world building, action/adventure and cosmic wonder and weirdness. If they can manage to pack that kind of viewer experience in an hour or so episode they will knock it out of the park.