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Post by hyrkanian on Sept 30, 2022 6:50:10 GMT -5
But there is no Red Sonja really, not in the same way there is a Conan, or a Bran Mak Morn. I kinda agree, I guess on the plus side it gives the filmmakers a great deal of freedom to develop the character any way they like. The problem is that the character is already established so the filmmakers can choose whether to present the original Red Sonja by Roy Thomas or the Gail Simone's version of Sonja. Or to choose the third option - to ignore it all and make their own version of Sonja - like MJ decided to do. According to everything we have learned so far, MJ has borrowed some motifs and characters from Simone (Annisia), from Russell (the main villain), and from Oeming (Osin), but her Sonja will obviously be just her version of the character, as she pointed out more than once and what is indicated by the information from the man who participated in the filming. The film may be good, but if her Sonja does not look like Red Sonja, does not have the same origin as Sonja and does not behave and speak like Sonja, then she is not Red Sonja, but some other character bearing her name, just a pretty doll with a red wig. The real Conan is not motivated by a desire for revenge, nor were his parents killed, he is not a slave, he is not a wimp whining under the feet of Thulsa Doom, he is not a sadist or a moron as portrayed in the movies. However, many people in the world are fans of such a Conan, but that does not mean that we should applaud such a parody of the original character, nor that filmmakers and other authors have the right and creative freedom to do what they want with an established character that someone else created. The same goes for Sonja.
The only way to do the character justice on screen is to present it as it was originally created. I really like REH's The Shadow of the Vulture and that's why I would like to see a movie or TV adaptation of it, but as a historical adventure that takes place in that period, as it was originally written, and not adapted to the sword and sorcery genre and in the Hyborian age, as I would like to see Red Sonya from Rogatino, as REH wrote and described her, in her suit and with her weapons and even more to see her slaying Turks.
In addition, that comic book adaptation by Thomas would not be a good solution for the movie because Sonja is a secondary character there.
The The Day of the Sword or Red Sonja episodes would be a much better choice for a film adaptation, but something like that, what we heard from MJ, unfortunately will not happen.
We'll see what MJ came up with, she said her goal was to show how Sonja developed to become who she is. She will probably try something similar to her version of Solomon Kane.
Of course, in Bassett's film I would like to see some kind of tribute to REH and Sonja's ancestor with a Y, but it should be done carefully, balanced and smart, because otherwise the viewers would be confused or both characters would turn into their own parodies.
Despite the fact that Red Sonja is inspired by Red Sonya from Rogatino, they are two characters in two different worlds and times.
I have no idea what the best way to do this is, maybe something similar to what johnnypt suggested earlier on this thread.
Those are different series/editions, but Sonja's character and origin were always the same, and in the SSoC episodes she appeared as an independent character too, not just as supporting character with Conan.
In all three editions there were good and bad episodes, and authors were often the same. As with Conan anyway. Marvel's Conan had a crisis too, there were a lot of bad comics in the main, CTB series, before that edition was shut down in the nineties.
But despite this, Conan survived, got a new life in DH and regained his old strength and vitality.
Just like Sonja who was raised from the dead by Dynamite and restored her popularity with Oeming's She Devil with a Sword run, right on Roy's version of the character and her origin. (Oeming's run was darker and Sonja's character was even more tragic.)
Red Sonja is alive and stronger today than ever before, and not only in comics. She is even in a better position than Conan.
Red Sonja-not Red Sonya of Rogatino.
Yes, it really sucks, but I can swallow that if Sonja's character was presented faithfully, as Mark Russell did. That's why I could tolerate (although it really annoyed me) errors related to the topography and representation of the Hyborian world.
We'll see what MJ will do, I doubt she'll pay attention to it.
I was thinking something along those lines too, that Matilda Lutz was perhaps, to put it simplistically, 'too girly' to play Red Sonja. Yeah, it's just TOO extreme. I remember all the Wonder Woman Gal Gadot concerns but she'd had the Fast & Furious films in her background, plus her real life experience showed she could handle it, which in the end she pretty much did. This time, I don't think they'll be able to pull a Keira Knightly beanpole type of thing because the character has been depicted so long as one way, from Smith, Buscema, Adams, Thorne and all the gang at Dynamite to Brigette and Angelica in the moving image. Her performance may be spot on, you'll just have to put the image out of your mind, which isn't the best way to make a film. |
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Post by Jason Aiken on Sept 30, 2022 9:16:18 GMT -5
The 5 ' 10 Gal Gadot already had that statuesque look about her so they could work her into Wonder Woman, the sequel sucked, but that wasn't Gadot's fault. She was close to perfect for the Wonder Woman look, maybe even surpassing Lynda Carter from the 70's tv series. Okay, let's not get carried away here, kemp....  I think you may be the biggest Red Sonja fan I know, hyrkanian. I'm hoping you can find SOMETHING in what seems to be a Dynamite Entertainment film and not very Howardian. But I don't like our chances. |
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Post by johnnypt on Sept 30, 2022 12:19:19 GMT -5
The 5 ' 10 Gal Gadot already had that statuesque look about her so they could work her into Wonder Woman, the sequel sucked, but that wasn't Gadot's fault. She was close to perfect for the Wonder Woman look, maybe even surpassing Lynda Carter from the 70's tv series. Okay, let's not get carried away here, kemp.... Think I'm gonna have to seek that episode out...  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2022 12:31:50 GMT -5
The 5 ' 10 Gal Gadot already had that statuesque look about her so they could work her into Wonder Woman, the sequel sucked, but that wasn't Gadot's fault. She was close to perfect for the Wonder Woman look, maybe even surpassing Lynda Carter from the 70's tv series. Okay, let's not get carried away here, kemp.... I think you may be the biggest Red Sonja fan I know, hyrkanian. I'm hoping you can find SOMETHING in what seems to be a Dynamite Entertainment film and not very Howardian. But I don't like our chances. By the goddess Umay!! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2022 13:06:25 GMT -5
I kinda agree, I guess on the plus side it gives the filmmakers a great deal of freedom to develop the character any way they like. The problem is that the character is already established so the filmmakers can choose whether to present the original Red Sonja by Roy Thomas or the Gail Simone's version of Sonja. Or to choose the third option - to ignore it all and make their own version of Sonja - like MJ decided to do. According to everything we have learned so far, MJ has borrowed some motifs and characters from Simone (Annisia), from Russell (the main villain), and from Oeming (Osin), but her Sonja will obviously be just her version of the character, as she pointed out more than once and what is indicated by the information from the man who participated in the filming. The film may be good, but if her Sonja does not look like Red Sonja, does not have the same origin as Sonja and does not behave and speak like Sonja, then she is not Red Sonja, but some other character bearing her name, just a pretty doll with a red wig. The real Conan is not motivated by a desire for revenge, nor were his parents killed, he is not a slave, he is not a wimp whining under the feet of Thulsa Doom, he is not a sadist or a moron as portrayed in the movies. However, many people in the world are fans of such a Conan, but that does not mean that we should applaud such a parody of the original character, nor that filmmakers and other authors have the right and creative freedom to do what they want with an established character that someone else created. The same goes for Sonja. Sorry, I kinda tried to separate/breakdown your post so I could answer the relevant points separately, in short, I failed. Anyways, I agree with your points above.
The only way to do the character justice on screen is to present it as it was originally created. I really like REH's The Shadow of the Vulture and that's why I would like to see a movie or TV adaptation of it, but as a historical adventure that takes place in that period, as it was originally written, and not adapted to the sword and sorcery genre and in the Hyborian age, as I would like to see Red Sonya from Rogatino, as REH wrote and described her, in her suit and with her weapons and even more to see her slaying Turks.
I still think you can adapt 'Shadow of the Vulture' to the screen by adding supernatural elements just like Roy Thomas did in the comic pages of CtB 23-24. You can have Red Sonja fight against the Turanians instead of their Ottoman descendants. You could also rework the origin where her parents get killed and sister is taken into slavery joining the Harem in Aghrapur! Instead of hating Hurrem (Roxalana) Sultan she could hate her sister, the favourite concubine of a Turanian prince (I guess they cannot use Prince Yezdigerd).
 
In addition, that comic book adaptation by Thomas would not be a good solution for the movie because Sonja is a secondary character there.
The The Day of the Sword or Red Sonja episodes would be a much better choice for a film adaptation, but something like that, what we heard from MJ, unfortunately will not happen.
We'll see what MJ came up with, she said her goal was to show how Sonja developed to become who she is. She will probably try something similar to her version of Solomon Kane.
Easy just give Sonja more screen time! You can give Von Kalmbach a more Hyrkanian (Turko-Mongol) name with something like Hun Kalmuk - with less screen time, obviously.
Of course, in Bassett's film I would like to see some kind of tribute to REH and Sonja's ancestor with a Y, but it should be done carefully, balanced and smart, because otherwise the viewers would be confused or both characters would turn into their own parodies.
Despite the fact that Red Sonja is inspired by Red Sonya from Rogatino, they are two characters in two different worlds and times. I think you have something similar in CtB 24 where Conan cannot say her name correctly:
I have no idea what the best way to do this is, maybe something similar to what johnnypt suggested earlier on this thread.
Those are different series/editions, but Sonja's character and origin were always the same, and in the SSoC episodes she appeared as an independent character too, not just as supporting character with Conan.
In all three editions there were good and bad episodes, and authors were often the same. As with Conan anyway. Marvel's Conan had a crisis too, there were a lot of bad comics in the main, CTB series, before that edition was shut down in the nineties.
But despite this, Conan survived, got a new life in DH and regained his old strength and vitality.
Just like Sonja who was raised from the dead by Dynamite and restored her popularity with Oeming's She Devil with a Sword run, right on Roy's version of the character and her origin. (Oeming's run was darker and Sonja's character was even more tragic.)
Red Sonja is alive and stronger today than ever before, and not only in comics. She is even in a better position than Conan.
Red Sonja-not Red Sonya of Rogatino.
Unfortunately, that's the problem with the recent Dynamite run. Modern writers and filmmakers are more likely to ignore the classic material by Roy Thomas.
Yes, it really sucks, but I can swallow that if Sonja's character was presented faithfully, as Mark Russell did. That's why I could tolerate (although it really annoyed me) errors related to the topography and representation of the Hyborian world.
We'll see what MJ will do, I doubt she'll pay attention to it.
The only reason Mark Russell's run worked is that it was based on the historical Tomiris! She ruled the nomadic Massagetae and defeated Cyrus the Great of Persia. Cyrus also built a bridge across a tributary of the Jaxartes/Syr Darya river chasing the nomadic hordes of Tomris out into the open steppe leading to his eventual defeat, and death.
Mark Russell's writing, and the characterisation of Hyrkanians left a lot to be desired.
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Post by kemp on Sept 30, 2022 22:11:42 GMT -5
The 5 ' 10 Gal Gadot already had that statuesque look about her so they could work her into Wonder Woman, the sequel sucked, but that wasn't Gadot's fault. She was close to perfect for the Wonder Woman look, maybe even surpassing Lynda Carter from the 70's tv series. Okay, let's not get carried away here, kemp.... I think you may be the biggest Red Sonja fan I know, hyrkanian. I'm hoping you can find SOMETHING in what seems to be a Dynamite Entertainment film and not very Howardian. But I don't like our chances. Well, maybe not surpassing  |
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Post by johnnypt on Oct 1, 2022 9:08:56 GMT -5
Okay, let's not get carried away here, kemp.... I think you may be the biggest Red Sonja fan I know, hyrkanian. I'm hoping you can find SOMETHING in what seems to be a Dynamite Entertainment film and not very Howardian. But I don't like our chances. Well, maybe not surpassing If you ever had to wonder what a woman looks like (and it seems these days, people do...), I give you Exhibit A |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2022 12:58:21 GMT -5
...closest we've got to a pic of Matilda Lutz in costume:  |
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Post by kemp on Oct 1, 2022 23:34:15 GMT -5
Well, maybe not surpassing If you ever had to wonder what a woman looks like (and it seems these days, people do...), I give you Exhibit A The 70's were amazing. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2022 5:29:52 GMT -5
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Post by johnnypt on Oct 11, 2022 13:46:57 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2022 14:56:14 GMT -5
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Post by karasuthecrow on Oct 12, 2022 10:16:02 GMT -5
She actually looks really cool
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Post by johnnypt on Oct 12, 2022 10:40:36 GMT -5
She's got her Galadriel armor on but showing a bit of skin, guess that's Sonja |
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Post by boot on Oct 12, 2022 12:20:23 GMT -5
I'm still very critical. She doesn't look the part at all to me. Sonja is curvy, tall, mature. The actress has a "young girl" vibe with non-curvy, young-girl features.
Maybe I can ignore that, if the film is good. I didn't care that James Bond had blonde hair because Daniel Craig was so good in the part, and Casino Royale is a damn fine movie.
I'm a fan of a lot of the Red Sonja Dynamite material. Though, I'm behind. I haven't gotten to much of the newer stuff. I just red Eric Trautman's run, and it was fantastic and very Hyborian Age. I've also read some Dynamite Sonja that was very good but not Hyborian Age at all. And, I've read some crap. But, for the most part, I'd say the Dynamite stuff is pretty good.
One thing I didn't like that Dynamite did was make Red Sonja more than one person. She is a hero that is reincarnated by her god. One dies, another is born, grows up, becomes the Red Sonja.
I hate when comics do that. One Superman isn't enough. One Spiderman isn't enough. The Falcon gets to be Captain America. When you say "Robin", you have to ask which one. I just really dislike that stuff. It degrades the uniqueness of the hero in question.
Fingers crossed, but not expecting to be happy.
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