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Post by Jason Aiken on Aug 31, 2024 11:40:35 GMT -5
I think I'll just enjoy it for what it is Probably your best bet. It's actually very watchable. I'm not a huge Tolkien lore expert, though. But the show looks great, they definitely are working with a sizeable budget on these. I’m interested to see how they get out of certain things they’ve gotten themselves into. They did ok with moving from Halbrand to Annatar. Not sure exactly how they’re fixing the Elven rings issues (they’re trying something, not sure if it’ll work), next up is bringing in Celeborn and Anarion. Celeborn may be showing up later this season, I’m guessing Anarion will be somewhere in Middle Earth setting up Arnor and Gondor. Will try to figure out why when/if it happens. I finished the first three episodes and think they have set the table fairly well. The Elven Rings are finished. The Dwarven Rings are in process, next up are the 9 rings that will be given to the men who will become the Ring Wraiths. Your theory about the dark wizard becoming one is a good one, johnny. That would tie in the Ring Wraith-like magic we saw at the end of the last season when Gandalf (?) defeated the three people pursuing him. One thing I don't like is the portrayal of the Orcs in a society of sorts. What's next? The Orc is going to come back to the tent after a hard day's work and kick the warg while the wife tries to fix him dinner and the baby is crying? It was a good idea of them to release these first three episodes at once, because watching these three from week to week wouldn't have been very good pacing. Maybe they learned their lesson from the Acolyte and decided to just get these out there so people can binge them two or three at a time instead of criticizing each episode week to week?
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Post by johnnypt on Aug 31, 2024 13:24:59 GMT -5
I think I'll just enjoy it for what it is Probably your best bet. It's actually very watchable. I'm not a huge Tolkien lore expert, though. But the show looks great, they definitely are working with a sizeable budget on these. I’m interested to see how they get out of certain things they’ve gotten themselves into. They did ok with moving from Halbrand to Annatar. Not sure exactly how they’re fixing the Elven rings issues (they’re trying something, not sure if it’ll work), next up is bringing in Celeborn and Anarion. Celeborn may be showing up later this season, I’m guessing Anarion will be somewhere in Middle Earth setting up Arnor and Gondor. Will try to figure out why when/if it happens. I finished the first three episodes and think they have set the table fairly well. The Elven Rings are finished. The Dwarven Rings are in process, next up are the 9 rings that will be given to the men who will become the Ring Wraiths. Your theory about the dark wizard becoming one is a good one, johnny. That would tie in the Ring Wraith-like magic we saw at the end of the last season when Gandalf (?) defeated the three people pursuing him. One thing I don't like is the portrayal of the Orcs in a society of sorts. What's next? The Orc is going to come back to the tent after a hard day's work and kick the warg while the wife tries to fix him dinner and the baby is crying? It was a good idea of them to release these first three episodes at once, because watching these three from week to week wouldn't have been very good pacing. Maybe they learned their lesson from the Acolyte and decided to just get these out there so people can binge them two or three at a time instead of criticizing each episode week to week? I have no idea where they came up with the idea of the Orc society. Completely unnecessary. The problem is the Elven rings were made in response to the other ones. It was only after Sauron made the One did they realize they were linked even though he had nothing to do with them. As soon as they sensed him, they took them off until after the final battle. This could still happen but they added additional layers to work through. I thought Pharazon’s rise would take all season, not 20 minutes after hanging around at the pub! I’m hoping they don’t lose the faith element of the first season. It’s key to Elendil’s character development.
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Post by johnnypt on Sept 5, 2024 11:51:55 GMT -5
Episode 4 is an interesting dichotomy, it has some of the best and worst of the series tendencies. Gilrboss Galadriel is back after three episodes of trying to keep her in check. Tom Bombadil is far more whimsical than the trailers made him appear, credit to Kinnear. By cutting Bronwyn loose (not necessarily by their choice), it's opened up Arondir to actually be more elvish. And as far as whether they'll go Blue Wizard or Nazgul for the Dark Wizard, it looks like the answer may be...yes. They're also trying to actively explain why the Stoor hobbits (for those who even knew that was a thing, like harfoots) aren't like the way Tolkien describes them, but trying to NOT contradict it.
The first word Tolkien wrote about the Second Age in the appendices is Numenor. Thus far we have spent about 20 minutes on them the first half of the season (I'm not counting the Isildur in the woods stuff). This is one of the two most important threads in this era (they've definitely got the rings covered!) They're getting distracted with ALL this extra stuff. I'm wondering how much of this is writer's strike, how much is course correction from last season. I can see where they're trying, but it still feels like they came up with their story and are trying to fit the pieces they can use into it, rather than tying the events already there together.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Sept 7, 2024 16:44:04 GMT -5
Like I said, I'm not up on First or Second Age lore but I'm finding this enjoyable enough.
Elrond's Avengers were well balanced, but they probably should have put a Maori or Indian in to really drive home the diversity.
Not sure I like them screwing around with the Barrow Wights, though. That's not how I pictured them. I thought they would be more martial in appearance, these looked more like Undead sorcerer's in their pajamas to me. Probably my least favorite part of the episode.
Tom Bombadil was my favorite part. Kinnear is indeed great. I've been a fan of his since he played Frankenstein's Monster in Penny Dreadful.
It's odd that they are making the Dark Wizard an Istari, too. He's got to be Saruman at this point but that seems a stretch. He'll, it's already a stretch that the Stranger is Gandalf in this era. Especially if they are adversaries already. I guess we'll see what happens.
My dog the Dark Elf was the overall mvp of the episode, though. The guy is completely broken combat wise. Speaking of which, the creature he fought must be Amazon's answer to the strange creatures Tolkien mentioned during Gandalf's recounting of the Balrog fight... one of the creatures who dwell deep in the Earth and are more ancient than Sauron.
Overall, I'm satisfied. It's certainly watchable, and I think it's better than last season so far.
The lead Hobbit girl is still cute.
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Post by johnnypt on Sept 7, 2024 20:35:03 GMT -5
One other thing that struck me…if they had to get to Eregion in a hurry to help Celebrimbor, why are they running?
Funny thing about the Barrow Wights is they were victims of the Witch King….1000 years after Numenor fell! The battle should be starting up in a couple of episodes. If it takes two episodes as promised, that’ll leave just two episodes for all the other things. A lot still has to happen in the Numenor thread. I can see the outlines of how they may do it but a big part is the men going to Middle Earth and ending up capturing Sauron. The way they did it, by adding the whole thing from season 1, they’re not going to be in any mood to anywhere near Middle Earth. This is a conundrum they created for themselves, we’ll see if they work it through logically.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Sept 7, 2024 23:50:01 GMT -5
One other thing that struck me…if they had to get to Eregion in a hurry to help Celebrimbor, why are they running? Funny thing about the Barrow Wights is they were victims of the Witch King….1000 years after Numenor fell! Wow, they are getting very anachronistic with Middle Earth lore! That's pretty funny. I loved the Wight in Fellowship of the Ring, one of my favorite parts of the original trilogy, great atmosphere. I might be in the minority but I have to say I have enjoyed the first three episodes all together, and the fourth as a stand-alone. Then again, I'm not nearly as immersed in the lore outside of the main story in the main trilogy of novels. The appendices were not very absorbing in audio book.
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Post by johnnypt on Sept 8, 2024 6:19:45 GMT -5
The appendices are best taken in small pieces, taken all at once it can just be too much.
At this point the show almost works as an old time serial-how are they going to get out of this one? Only by they I mean the writers! 😊
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Post by Von K on Sept 8, 2024 17:41:45 GMT -5
One other thing that struck me…if they had to get to Eregion in a hurry to help Celebrimbor, why are they running? Funny thing about the Barrow Wights is they were victims of the Witch King….1000 years after Numenor fell! I loved the Wight in Fellowship of the Ring, one of my favorite parts of the original trilogy, great atmosphere. I found that a scary sequence when I was young and first read LotR, as were many others in that book.
Tolkien probably based the Barrow Wight on the Norse draugr, the 'mound dwellers' as they are some times called. Skyrim made good grift out of them as antagonists. Apparently William Morris was the first to use the term barrow wight, but afaik the word 'wight' in the Middle English of Malory's day simply means 'person,' (Tolkien knew this of course).
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Post by Von K on Sept 8, 2024 18:54:45 GMT -5
In his essay On Fairy Stories Tolkien wrote that a story-teller is a successful sub-creator who:
But:
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Post by garbanzo on Sept 11, 2024 10:37:41 GMT -5
That fourth episode was hella cool. When does the rest of the season drop?
Is Gandalf learning from Bombadil canon lore?
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Post by johnnypt on Sept 11, 2024 13:50:00 GMT -5
That fourth episode was hella cool. When does the rest of the season drop? Is Gandalf learning from Bombadil canon lore? Once a week on Thursdays at midnight California time so it’ll be there in the morning. There are so many things wrong with this version of Tom & the Istar, it would make your head explode. Suffice to say the two had nothing to do with one another in Tolkien’s writings. We’ll have to see where they want to take it.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Sept 11, 2024 22:18:29 GMT -5
I found that a scary sequence when I was young and first read LotR, as were many others in that book.
Tolkien probably based the Barrow Wight on the Norse draugr, the 'mound dwellers' as they are some times called. Skyrim made good grift out of them as antagonists. Apparently William Morris was the first to use the term barrow wight, but afaik the word 'wight' in the Middle English of Malory's day simply means 'person,' (Tolkien knew this of course). Yeah after listening to a few Norse Mythology audio books he was definitely drawing from the Norse Legends. There's one where a young woman goes out into the barrows and meets her father, who is a deceased Berserker near his mound. I believe she is looking for a sword he once wielded, but he either doesn't have it, or he gives it to her. It may be one of the later Icelandic Sagas. I tried searching for it, but Google AI was no help. In his essay On Fairy Stories Tolkien wrote that a story-teller is a successful sub-creator who: But: Interesting, never seen that Tolkien quote before, thanks. That fourth episode was hella cool. When does the rest of the season drop? Is Gandalf learning from Bombadil canon lore? Once a week on Thursdays at midnight California time so it’ll be there in the morning. There are so many things wrong with this version of Tom & the Istar, it would make your head explode. Suffice to say the two had nothing to do with one another in Tolkien’s writings. We’ll have to see where they want to take it. I am so glad I didn't read the Appendices or the other early Age books so I can enjoy this. Otherwise I would probably be throwing something at the TV.
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Post by johnnypt on Sept 12, 2024 8:17:29 GMT -5
Episode 5 looks to be the best so far. The writer did some work on the better episodes from last season and some of that ended up here regarding the faith aspects of the series, which have been lacking this season. It also had the most direct Tolkien links so far and they were generally in context. Their concept of the rings is different, they've equated all of them to the One Ring (TOO directly in one scene). I suppose that's a decent dramatic choice to have the audience quickly relate to them. As in the earlier episodes, the direct callbacks to the Jackson films just don't work, but I guess we'll be seeing more of them this season.
In general, more direct Tolkien, less Tolkien via Jackson is a better choice for them. But this season is cooked in the books so we'll see how they end up witht he rest of the episodes.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Sept 12, 2024 8:44:33 GMT -5
Episode 5 looks to be the best so far. The writer did some work on the better episodes from last season and some of that ended up here regarding the faith aspects of the series, which have been lacking this season. It also had the most direct Tolkien links so far and they were generally in context. Their concept of the rings is different, they've equated all of them to the One Ring (TOO directly in one scene). I suppose that's a decent dramatic choice to have the audience quickly relate to them. As in the earlier episodes, the direct callbacks to the Jackson films just don't work, but I guess we'll be seeing more of them this season. In general, more direct Tolkien, less Tolkien via Jackson is a better choice for them. But this season is cooked in the books so we'll see how they end up witht he rest of the episodes. I thought it was a good episode. The Elves, Dwarves, and Numenorians were well represented. The politics in Numenor are about to really get bloody. I think they are handling the Sauron and Celibrimbor relationship fairly decent. A wise, elder being like Celibrimbor being manipulated like this is strange but he believes Sauron is an Istar, so I can buy it I guess. Sauron was really upping his rizz game with the Galadriel look-alike.
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Post by Von K on Sept 12, 2024 19:52:55 GMT -5
I found that a scary sequence when I was young and first read LotR, as were many others in that book.
Tolkien probably based the Barrow Wight on the Norse draugr, the 'mound dwellers' as they are some times called. Skyrim made good grift out of them as antagonists. Apparently William Morris was the first to use the term barrow wight, but afaik the word 'wight' in the Middle English of Malory's day simply means 'person,' (Tolkien knew this of course). Yeah after listening to a few Norse Mythology audio books he was definitely drawing from the Norse Legends. There's one where a young woman goes out into the barrows and meets her father, who is a deceased Berserker near his mound. I believe she is looking for a sword he once wielded, but he either doesn't have it, or he gives it to her. It may be one of the later Icelandic Sagas. I tried searching for it, but Google AI was no help. In his essay On Fairy Stories Tolkien wrote that a story-teller is a successful sub-creator who: But: Interesting, never seen that Tolkien quote before, thanks. Once a week on Thursdays at midnight California time so it’ll be there in the morning. There are so many things wrong with this version of Tom & the Istar, it would make your head explode. Suffice to say the two had nothing to do with one another in Tolkien’s writings. We’ll have to see where they want to take it. I am so glad I didn't read the Appendices or the other early Age books so I can enjoy this. Otherwise I would probably be throwing something at the TV. That saga may have been Hervararkviða or The Waking of Angantyr: Tyrfing of course was the name of the cursed sword that Scafloc used in Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword.
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