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Post by lordyam on Feb 18, 2016 18:07:59 GMT -5
Since Conan the legend, the series has been building up to a final confrontation that occurred between Conan and Thoth, as well as a possible redux in the age of the prince. More specifically the statue says "In our hour of darkness, when serpent strikes, he shall return." The very last time we saw the prince and the wazir the prince was getting suspicious of him and Akivasha gave a warning. What better way to end it than to bring it full circle?
Note: Since the book of thoth IS dark horse canon (Thoth's comments in Conan the avenger confirm it as such) it will be used even if it isn't necessarily REH. It's dark horse's playbox so as long as it isn't used in other continuities it's not a deathblow. Besides, I want Thoth to suffer for what he's done.
My take on the final adventure would take place in both the present and the past.
Past: Ra Sidh's actions in Midnight God have weakened faith in Set (since if you think about it, outsiders having to stop the renegade doesn't look good.) The ibisite's exploit this and manage to start undermining Thoth (an ironic twist on when Thoth undermined Ibis). Thoth tries to recreate the plan he tried centuries ago (control Acheron) with the added caveat of reviving greater stygia at the same time. Even worse he actually has the power to command xaltotun and the others rather than simply being a slave. Conan and Kalanthes ride with Aquilonia's army and an uprising of Stygians to try and take Thoth down, besieging Luxur in the process. Thoth is confronted by the spirits of Amon, Ayina (his sister) and Kharantus (his mentor, whom he betrayed), the people whom he sacrificed for his greed and ambitions, and given one last chance to turn away. Thoth refuses. In a titanic clash, Thoth's plans are thwarted and Conan impales Thoth with a broadsword. Thoth pathetically bleeds out. Stygia is changed from a dystopian nightmare, to a corrupt, but still relatively better place to live in.
Present: Thoth makes his move and tries to take over the world. He reveals to the prince how much he loathed him, and resented being forced to recount the exploits of the one who defeated him. The prophecy on the statue comes true somehow (I think someone like Truman or Busiek should work out the details) and Conan's spirit somehow returns. He helps the prince defeat Thoth, and Thoth is finally defeated forever. Conan and the Prince have a long discussion and Conan leaves, his job done. The Prince is finally ready to become a king.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Feb 19, 2016 16:01:44 GMT -5
I'd love to see this framing sequence conclude. They should bring Busiek and Nord back to end it, though. Perhaps it a one-shot, or a small arc to conclude the series at Dark Horse. Put a nice little bow on everything.
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Post by lordyam on Feb 19, 2016 16:24:51 GMT -5
I think that we should see the final adventure; I can understand why they haven't touched prince and wazir; they need to progress the other stories. Maybe bring it back for the end. I want to see Kurt or Tim do the final fight with Thoth Amon. I said that I wanted Thoth Amon to have a scene like Arthas in the fall of the lich king trailer; all the people who died for his greed and ambition confront him a la richard iii.
I would LOVE to see Busiek and Nord come back even if briefly to give the series a heartfelt goodbye.
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Post by lordyam on Jun 17, 2016 16:27:55 GMT -5
Okay. So far the stories are
Hour of the Dragon
Phoenix on the Sword
The Scarlet Citadel
Wolves Beyond the Border
Tower of the Elephant
Frost Giant's Daughter
God in the Bowl
Rogues in the House
Halls of the Dead
Hand of Nergal
Iron Shadows in the Moon
Black Colossus
A Witch Shall Be Born
Xuthal of the Dusk
Snout in the Dark
Jewels of Gwahalur
Queen of the Black Coast
People of the Black Circle
Cimmeria
Which makes.....14 main stories, 3 fragments, 2 other related materials
The stories left to be adapted.......
Pool of the Black One
Shadows in Zamboula
The Devil In Iron
The Vale of Lost Women
Beyond the Black River
Black Stranger
Red Nails
The Fragment...
Drums of Tombalku
Others
Hyborian Age Essay
Interesting situation to put it mildly. I think it's pretty clear we're gonna get Devil in Iron and Shadows in Zamboula for Slayers. After that, I think the best solution would be to have Vale and Drums, maybe even Pool, in a single series. After that, Truman and Fiorello either do an hour style miniseries (the three black and red stories with some padding).. After that, we can easily do two miniseries. One is how Conan becomes King, the other wraps up the Prince Wazir and Conan's final fight with Thoth. Maybe they could bring Nord and Busiek back for la gran finale.
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ironhand
Thief
The Mad Playwright
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Post by ironhand on Sept 17, 2016 2:35:34 GMT -5
One thing that bothers me is that in DH's overall story arc, Thoth SURVIVES Conan. To make that a win for Conan, the "final fight" will require some very complex storytelling.
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Post by lordyam on Sept 17, 2016 3:52:28 GMT -5
I think Thoth will be revived at some point....but that Conan kills him again. The prophecy said he would return when serpent did. I think Thoth dies and is revived. He seemed to respect Conan in avenger, but that respect turned to hate. SOMETHING happened towards the end of Conan's reign. Some sort of battle between them that saw Thoth defeated badly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 9:13:23 GMT -5
A remake of Queen of the Black Coast and People of the Black circle should be done in the future. Those two stories deserve good adaptations.
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Post by lordyam on Sept 17, 2016 12:48:00 GMT -5
Black circle wasn't BAD but it was rushed. I think given the limit it was good
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 13:38:03 GMT -5
That hell of a story could never have been rushed. We deserve a remake.
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Post by Jason Aiken on Sept 17, 2016 15:33:55 GMT -5
One thing that bothers me is that in DH's overall story arc, Thoth SURVIVES Conan. To make that a win for Conan, the "final fight" will require some very complex storytelling. Maybe the Prince summons Conan to his time ala "Kings of the Night" and they fight him together? Queen of the Black Coast NEEDS a proper adaptation. Wood really screwed that up. Truman and Giorello could work wonders on it. Or bring back Cary Nord and Kurt Busiek. I can live without People of the Black Circle being redone. But Red Nails, the Black Stranger, and Beyond the Black River definitely need to be told by either Truman and Giorello, or Busiek and Nord. The series has to go out on a high note creatively. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 17:51:21 GMT -5
One thing that bothers me is that in DH's overall story arc, Thoth SURVIVES Conan. To make that a win for Conan, the "final fight" will require some very complex storytelling. Maybe the Prince summons Conan to his time ala "Kings of the Night" and they fight him together? Queen of the Black Coast NEEDS a proper adaptation. Wood really screwed that up. Truman and Giorello could work wonders on it. Or bring back Cary Nord and Kurt Busiek. I can live without People of the Black Circle being redone. But Red Nails, the Black Stranger, and Beyond the Black River definitely need to be told by either Truman and Giorello, or Busiek and Nord. The series has to go out on a high note creatively. Give them time and I think this new team is capable of doing a very good job on those stories. They seem to be getting accostumed to the character and I bet they will soon be delivering some nice impecable stories. |
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Post by mrp on Sept 19, 2016 1:02:58 GMT -5
Don't expect Busiek back on Conan any time soon. He has no desire to do any work for hire projects in comics any longer and is only doing creator-owned stuff. His health limits how many books he can do a month, and he will not put any of his creator owned projects on hold to do work for hire for Dark Horse, Marvel, DC, or anybody. He is struggling to get Astro City and Autumnlands out on a regular basis and isn't likely to put either on hiatus to do more Conan.
Cary Nord I believe is under exclusive contract with Valiant for a while too, so he wouldn't be able to take any work for anyone else until that contract expires, if he doesn't decide to re up with Valiant (exclusive contracts often come with benefits like health insurance) and guarantees of minimum amounts of pages assigned, so provide a steadier income and more real life value to some creators than work for hire contracts. Dark Horse doesn't do exclusive contracts, so they would have to offer a much higher page rate (which sale son Conan doesn't really allow for with them losing a cut of sales to pay for the actual Conan license), so it's unlikely you would see any more Conan work from Nord in the near future either.
Now if the hints by Tom Grindberg that he has an upcoming Conan project for Dark Horse bear fruit, you could see one of the remaining stories adapted by him (I think Roy Thomas has been mentioned as being attached to that project as well, but don't quote me on that).
-M
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Post by lordyam on Sept 19, 2016 2:27:45 GMT -5
Don't expect Busiek back on Conan any time soon. He has no desire to do any work for hire projects in comics any longer and is only doing creator-owned stuff. His health limits how many books he can do a month, and he will not put any of his creator owned projects on hold to do work for hire for Dark Horse, Marvel, DC, or anybody. He is struggling to get Astro City and Autumnlands out on a regular basis and isn't likely to put either on hiatus to do more Conan. Cary Nord I believe is under exclusive contract with Valiant for a while too, so he wouldn't be able to take any work for anyone else until that contract expires, if he doesn't decide to re up with Valiant (exclusive contracts often come with benefits like health insurance) and guarantees of minimum amounts of pages assigned, so provide a steadier income and more real life value to some creators than work for hire contracts. Dark Horse doesn't do exclusive contracts, so they would have to offer a much higher page rate (which sale son Conan doesn't really allow for with them losing a cut of sales to pay for the actual Conan license), so it's unlikely you would see any more Conan work from Nord in the near future either. Now if the hints by Tom Grindberg that he has an upcoming Conan project for Dark Horse bear fruit, you could see one of the remaining stories adapted by him (I think Roy Thomas has been mentioned as being attached to that project as well, but don't quote me on that). -M What health problems has busiek had? |
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Post by mrp on Sept 19, 2016 3:08:43 GMT -5
Don't expect Busiek back on Conan any time soon. He has no desire to do any work for hire projects in comics any longer and is only doing creator-owned stuff. His health limits how many books he can do a month, and he will not put any of his creator owned projects on hold to do work for hire for Dark Horse, Marvel, DC, or anybody. He is struggling to get Astro City and Autumnlands out on a regular basis and isn't likely to put either on hiatus to do more Conan. Cary Nord I believe is under exclusive contract with Valiant for a while too, so he wouldn't be able to take any work for anyone else until that contract expires, if he doesn't decide to re up with Valiant (exclusive contracts often come with benefits like health insurance) and guarantees of minimum amounts of pages assigned, so provide a steadier income and more real life value to some creators than work for hire contracts. Dark Horse doesn't do exclusive contracts, so they would have to offer a much higher page rate (which sale son Conan doesn't really allow for with them losing a cut of sales to pay for the actual Conan license), so it's unlikely you would see any more Conan work from Nord in the near future either. Now if the hints by Tom Grindberg that he has an upcoming Conan project for Dark Horse bear fruit, you could see one of the remaining stories adapted by him (I think Roy Thomas has been mentioned as being attached to that project as well, but don't quote me on that). -M What health problems has busiek had? He's had ongoing health problems since the 90s, starting with having to have had some kind of corrective surgery on his sinus/nasal cavity and other issues he has not fully made public. It was one of the main reasons he left Dark Horse/freelance to go exclusive with DC at the time, because going exclusive meant he had health insurance through DC. A lot of it stemmed from mercury poisoning when he was younger and the long term affects that has on your physiology. He recently tweeted he was undergoing some health issues again but it wouldn't affect his work on Astro City, but might slow down Autumnlands. More details than that, I don't have. Regardless of health though, he has repeatedly stated via social media and on comic forums like CBR (where he maintained an Ask Kurt Busiek thread for a long time) that he no longer has any desire to do any work-for-hire work and is devoting all him time and energy to creator-owned projects, which pretty much would preclude a return to Conan for Dark Horse. -M PS I f you like Busiek's fantasy work, do check out Auumnland,s the first volume of the trade is magnificent and also check out the OGN he did with David Wentzel (who did a bunch of Solomon Kane and Howard related stuff for Marvel in SSOC) called A Wizard's Tale. |
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Post by lordyam on Sept 25, 2016 3:33:53 GMT -5
I posted this a few months ago
Since Conan the legend, the series has been building up to a final confrontation that occurred between Conan and Thoth, as well as a possible redux in the age of the prince. More specifically the statue says "In our hour of darkness, when serpent strikes, he shall return." The very last time we saw the prince and the wazir the prince was getting suspicious of him and Akivasha gave a warning. What better way to end it than to bring it full circle?
Note: Since the book of thoth IS dark horse canon (Thoth's comments in Conan the avenger confirm it as such) it will be used even if it isn't necessarily REH. It's dark horse's playbox so as long as it isn't used in other continuities it's not a deathblow. Besides, I want Thoth to suffer for what he's done.
My take on the final adventure would take place in both the present and the past.
Past: Ra Sidh's actions in Midnight God have weakened faith in Set (since if you think about it, outsiders having to stop the renegade doesn't look good.) The ibisite's exploit this and manage to start undermining Thoth (an ironic twist on when Thoth undermined Ibis). Thoth tries to recreate the plan he tried centuries ago (control Acheron) with the added caveat of reviving greater stygia at the same time. Even worse he actually has the power to command xaltotun and the others rather than simply being a slave. Conan and Kalanthes ride with Aquilonia's army and an uprising of Stygians to try and take Thoth down, besieging Luxur in the process. Thoth is confronted by the spirits of Amon, Ayina (his sister) and Kharantus (his mentor, whom he betrayed), the people whom he sacrificed for his greed and ambitions, and given one last chance to turn away. Thoth refuses. In a titanic clash, Thoth's plans are thwarted and Conan impales Thoth with a broadsword. Thoth pathetically bleeds out. Stygia is changed from a dystopian nightmare, to a corrupt, but still relatively better place to live in.
Present: Thoth makes his move and tries to take over the world. He reveals to the prince how much he loathed him, and resented being forced to recount the exploits of the one who defeated him. The prophecy on the statue comes true somehow (I think someone like Truman or Busiek should work out the details) and Conan somehow returns. He helps the prince defeat Thoth, and Thoth is finally defeated forever. Conan and the Prince have a long discussion and Conan leaves, his job done. The Prince is finally ready to become a king.
Basically I imagined a scene just like this
Thoth is under siege from the whole world, his power crumbling but still determined to win. I imagine Ayina Amon and Kharatus (the people who died for his ambition) calling him out, and offering him a way to escape but Thoth refusing (or they just mock him)
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