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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 13:36:41 GMT -5
This was the firs time that I red about Hyperboreans. Very interesting - and inspiring, to a native finn. Maybe I'll open my thought about this a little, for the annoyance or delight of you all.  It is only my personal view, but I could well see Hyperborea being based on ancient "Finland" or the cultural area, if you look at Howard's map. In that, Hyperborea is nearly precisely placed over Finland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, - which all share the same cultural and linquistic roots, different from the surrounding areas. Howard's map lines cultural borders very precisely. I do not quite agree with the thought, that something like Russia would be in question. After all, Russia was established fairly late in history by Vikings, and before them, the land within Russian borders was occupied by Ugrian and Finno-Ugrian people. "So we have a nation that is the birthplace of many tribes, many of whom go on to found their own nations. A nation beset from east and west, which has absorbed a fair amount of foreign bloodlines, and that practices a different religion and is viewed with suspicion as a result." Finland has always been - and still is, separated in tribal areas and cultures with different customs and even liquistics. There's nothing much to add to that...it's a match. "Within the Conan series the Hyperboreans are not presented “up front” as so many other cultures and nations are—they instead loom steadily in the background shadows." In my mind, the "feel" of the existanse of Hyperborea as describen in this text, the mystery matches fairly well the point of view that is painted in the first legends ever preserved to these days. The Viking trade route moved past the finn-estonian coasts those days - very rarely stopping there. In Icelandic sagas it was called "the shores of fires" because of the line of the beacons that were lit along the shore as a warning signal, whenever a ship sailed past. The Chronicles of Nowgorod often describe how their conquerors, after loosing a battle, escape into the finnish woods and get killed there. All of sudden, out of the blue, the joined finnish-estonian tribes destroy the capital of young Sweden: "they stayed quite secretly in the archipelago of Svea usually with the secret army. Once they got such a notion that they burned Sigtuna, burned it along the bottoms and the town did not get help anywhere. The archbishop Jon was killed there and many heathens were happy from it that the Christians were so unlucky. And the whole of Karelia and Russia were happy about it." - so wrote Erik the King of Sweden, in his chronicle, and never spoke of it again. Overall, in the known history of those early days,"loom steadily in the background shadows" seems quite descriptive. However, what does not match, would be the cavalry. I have never heard, or even thought it possible, for Finland to host cavalry in large scale. The climate is against it, aswell as the terrain. There is no flat pasture anywhere. However, on the other side of the gulf in Estonia, there is flat land a-plenty, and if you go a little further south....although outside the cultural bordes which I previously pointed out in oward's map, you find Hungary. Hungarian language is known to be the only other language in the same language family with finnish, and the two languages (apparently) share the same roots. Could we imagine, to our humor, that the Hungarian horse-lords were once connected to their linquistic brothers, as far to the north as the land of the forest-finns? What were the Hyperborean's like? Well, what are the finns like? "big-boned, of slow speech and violent natures.." Quite accurate, even if I say so myself. What doesn't match here would be the heights. Perhaps to someone from southern countrie,s finnish people would indeed appear tall in stature, but we are still short of, - for example, our neighbors the Norwegians. At this point, I'd like to connect a legend to another legend. In the 18-hundreds, when finnish folk-lore was finally recorded and written down from some parts, a lore-collector heard from an old blind woman this sort of a tale: "Before we came here there lived the russkies. Before them were the Sami people, and they had conquered the land from the Yotuni." This knowledge of the old woman had lived from generation to generation before it was finally written down, and it reached so far to the past that the end of it was in myth. "Russkies" refer to carelians - yet another finnish subroup. The Sami people still exist and now live in Lapland. However "Yotuni" from which the Sami people had conquered their land, has no one today ever seen. It refers to "Giants", or "tall people". Let our imaginations fly.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 13:54:21 GMT -5
This was the firs time that I red about Hyperboreans. Very interesting - and inspiring, to a native finn. Maybe I'll open my thought about this a little, for the annoyance or delight of you all. It is only my personal view, but I could well see Hyperborea being based on ancient "Finland" or the cultural area, if you look at Howard's map. In that, Hyperborea is nearly precisely placed over Finland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, - which all share the same cultural and linquistic roots, different from the surrounding areas. Howard's map lines cultural borders very precisely. I do not quite agree with the thought, that something like Russia would be in question. After all, Russia was established fairly late in history by Vikings, and before them, the land within Russian borders was occupied by Ugrian and Finno-Ugrian people. "So we have a nation that is the birthplace of many tribes, many of whom go on to found their own nations. A nation beset from east and west, which has absorbed a fair amount of foreign bloodlines, and that practices a different religion and is viewed with suspicion as a result." Finland has always been - and still is, separated in tribal areas and cultures with different customs and even liquistics. There's nothing much to add to that...it's a match. "Within the Conan series the Hyperboreans are not presented “up front” as so many other cultures and nations are—they instead loom steadily in the background shadows." In my mind, the "feel" of the existanse of Hyperborea as describen in this text, the mystery matches fairly well the point of view that is painted in the first legends ever preserved to these days. The Viking trade route moved past the finn-estonian coasts those days - very rarely stopping there. In Icelandic sagas it was called "the shores of fires" because of the line of the beacons that were lit along the shore as a warning signal, whenever a ship sailed past. The Chronicles of Nowgorod often describe how their conquerors, after loosing a battle, escape into the finnish woods and get killed there. All of sudden, out of the blue, the joined finnish-estonian tribes destroy the capital of young Sweden: "they stayed quite secretly in the archipelago of Svea usually with the secret army. Once they got such a notion that they burned Sigtuna, burned it along the bottoms and the town did not get help anywhere. The archbishop Jon was killed there and many heathens were happy from it that the Christians were so unlucky. And the whole of Karelia and Russia were happy about it." - so wrote Erik the King of Sweden, in his chronicle, and never spoke of it again. Overall, in the known history of those early days,"loom steadily in the background shadows" seems quite descriptive. However, what does not match, would be the cavalry. I have never heard, or even thought it possible, for Finland to host cavalry in large scale. The climate is against it, aswell as the terrain. There is no flat pasture anywhere. However, on the other side of the gulf in Estonia, there is flat land a-plenty, and if you go a little further south....although outside the cultural bordes which I previously pointed out in oward's map, you find Hungary. Hungarian language is known to be the only other language in the same language family with finnish, and the two languages (apparently) share the same roots. Could we imagine, to our humor, that the Hungarian horse-lords were once connected to their linquistic brothers, as far to the north as the land of the forest-finns? What were the Hyperborean's like? Well, what are the finns like? "big-boned, of slow speech and violent natures.." Quite accurate, even if I say so myself. What doesn't match here would be the heights. Perhaps to someone from southern countrie,s finnish people would indeed appear tall in stature, but we are still short of, - for example, our neighbors the Norwegians. At this point, I'd like to connect a legend to another legend. In the 18-hundreds, when finnish folk-lore was finally recorded and written down from some parts, a lore-collector heard from an old blind woman this sort of a tale: "Before we came here there lived the russkies. Before them were the Sami people, and they had conquered the land from the Yotuni." This knowledge of the old woman had lived from generation to generation before it was finally written down, and it reached so far to the past that the end of it was in myth. "Russkies" refer to carelians - yet another finnish subroup. The Sami people still exist and now live in Lapland. However "Yotuni" from which the Sami people had conquered their land, has no one today ever seen. It refers to "Giants", or "tall people". Let our imaginations fly. Hello and welcome Venaala, Very interesting concerning Finno-Ugrian/Uralic folk-tales of the giant 'Yotuni' The Hyperboreans do not seem that far off from where the Uralic speakers have been living for centuries!  I remember years ago reading about The Magyar leader Arpad, riding into the Carpathian Basin and conquering present day Hungary. He is seen as the founder of Hungarian nation. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 3:18:53 GMT -5
Interesting. Maybe I'll read to that next.
What comes to the Yotuni or the "Giants", the folk-lore clearly speaks of them not only in Finland, but in Estonia aswell. The finnish Epic tale is called Kalevala - the shape of the word refers to a living place of someone called Kaleva. (for example, if a house is called Mattila, it refers that Matti lives there, or the descendants of someone called Matti) In their myth the Estonians tell bout Kalevipoeg - The sons of Kaleva. There were 16 of them (if I remember right). The estonians explain the birth of strange rock-formations, or other origins as the doings of the Kalevipoeg. In Christian-time tales the Kalevipoeg are described as giants, who were unpredictable and generally evil, but in pre-Christian tales they are described in a lot more humanlike form. Some believe that he heroes of Kalevala were also Kalevipoeg, although in the finnish Kalevala they were a lot more human, and less giant. In any case, both are taken for the angestors, or atleast the founders of the land.
I can't say about the language bonds myself, exept that I don't really understand Hungarian, even though it is said to be related to finnish, but I do understand Sami and Estonian and carelian. Go figure. 
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 4:12:58 GMT -5
Kalevala is on my reading list, I'm waiting to find a nice copy one day so I can introduce myself to the Finnish Epic.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 4:54:59 GMT -5
Here's one. www.sacred-texts.com/neu/kveng/
There are other translations, but I find that the easiest read. It's after all mostly poems and can get tiring and very confusing!
If you don't feel like reading hundreds of pages of poetry, here's short summary: www.arth.net/8anthologies/dossierkalevala/kalevalasummary.html
There are also some movie adaptions, of which the finnish version (called rauta-aika) made in the 80's is the best, and available with English subtitles.
Avoid the german one.
Be curious about the Russian one - which I haven't seen myself and don't know any translated versions to exist.
On the record, here's a little sample of the finnish version Rauta-aika. The making of the Sampo. Just because it's available and old-time smiths at work is cool to watch!
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Post by buxom9sorceress on Apr 27, 2016 18:56:33 GMT -5
Hey Venaala, your posts in here are very interesting, revealing, and very good points. You have inspired me about possible 'Hyperborea legends' more than any other REH-fan writer or wild speculator. Thanks very much for all, + links. Venaala has proved to me that she knows far far more about Finland [ and the surrounding areas, and Russia ] than Holmes, decamp , carter [ and most of us ]. ==== Holmes has some good reh-text research, but most of the article is polluted by his acidic hatred for decamp-carter s tales. He seems to present a wargamers view of armies, which is too vague and simplistic? And his 'big cavalry power' in 'finland area', is a ridiculous big fantasy.  ==== i like some sorceries & supernatural stuff in tales, so i enjoy those elements [ and the dark stone fortresses, slaving & cruelty ] in those pastiches. but i am less interested in any pastiches about Conan as king, and i am not keen on the depictions of conans son. the de//carter hyperborea tales were more poor adventures: too rushed and lacking strong thrills and grim horrors. poor examples of conan pastiches. but some good ideas were wasted. ==== ==== more ideas for writers ==== Hyperborea has lots of great grim potential for new tale writers and poets. i would include some powerful witch-lords [ in megalithic forts and some white towers ] and some hidden arcane evil man-eating giants [ about 12 feet tall ] in very remote mountains. [ + maybe some of the human lords /leaders ride on huge white wolves [ a bit like big wargs?] + the lords can control packs of vicious wolves? wolves + some huge white bears roam woods and mountains? ] ==== And thanks to Jason for the links. -- Should we move most of these posts into a topic about HYPERBOREA ? |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 7:21:17 GMT -5
I'd love to speculate and talk more about this subject, partly because it's got a bit of mystery about it, partly because I feel Hyperborean, hehehe. I already opened my mind about it on another thread. swordsofreh.proboards.com/post/950/threadMy views are only my own, tho. I haven't red the books so carefully as to remember every mention that's ever made of the Hyperboreans. I see them as being close to the "Kalevipoeg" of Finn/Estonian mythology. Where does forgotten history end, and where does the story begin? That's the question to me. Sadly, ROE didn't give much detail, so I will take the freedom to use my own imagination. All further detail and thought would be intereting tho. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 7:34:50 GMT -5
That's the nature of a story, my dear Deuce. Everyone hear/reads it differently, and to everyone it has different meanings. It is ment to inspire, and be told forward, in the way the next teller wants to tell it. A story is never complete. It changes according to the time, the teller, the motives, the memory... and we must let it happen. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 8:11:53 GMT -5
Hey Venaala, your posts in here are very interesting, revealing, and very good points. You have inspired me about possible 'Hyperborea legends' more than any other REH-fan writer or wild speculator. Thanks very much for all, + links. Venaala has proved to me that she knows far far more about Finland [ and the surrounding areas, and Russia ] than Holmes, decamp , carter [ and most of us ]. ==== Holmes has some good reh-text research, but most of the article is polluted by his acidic hatred for decamp-carter s tales. He seems to present a wargamers view of armies, which is too vague and simplistic? And his 'big cavalry power' in 'finland area', is a ridiculous big fantasy. ==== i like some sorceries & supernatural stuff in tales, so i enjoy those elements [ and the dark stone fortresses, slaving & cruelty ] in those pastiches. but i am less interested in any pastiches about Conan as king, and i am not keen on the depictions of conans son. the de//carter hyperborea tales were more poor adventures: too rushed and lacking strong thrills and grim horrors. poor examples of conan pastiches. but some good ideas were wasted. ==== ==== more ideas for writers ==== Hyperborea has lots of great grim potential for new tale writers and poets. i would include some powerful witch-lords [ in megalithic forts and some white towers ] and some hidden arcane evil man-eating giants [ about 12 feet tall ] in very remote mountains. [ + maybe some of the human lords /leaders ride on huge white wolves [ a bit like big wargs?] + the lords can control packs of vicious wolves? wolves + some huge white bears roam woods and mountains? ] ==== And thanks to Jason for the links. -- Should we move most of these posts into a topic about HYPERBOREA ?
That's the sweetest thing anyone ever said to me! <3 I'm so touched by this BP! Thankyou very much for your kind words. I am happy if I have been able to inspire, as I am inspired.
As you propably notice (even if you didn't like the story, hehe) in my quikie scratch of a story about two daggers and whatnot, the heroine was a Hyperborean hybrid. I might make her an actual character with more stories about her... at some point..in the future..when I have time and yadda yadda....
I agree that Hyperborea is fertile land for storywriters, partially BECAUSE not much is known/written about it. Ofcourse we must not forget, that there is no "one right" fiction. I know there are a lot of pure...what's wher word...Puretonologists? xD ...who want to say "Actually! This is not what it is like" - as if fiction that was written before is any more "correct" than the new fiction being written. As long as Howard didn't write it,anyone can. And anyone can write it to be JSUT the way they want it. Aint that neat?
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Where I live is called "the wolf border". We have a lot of wolves. I dunno about wolf-riding, though.. That seems like a Russian tale. There is a tale about a prince who rides on a wolf. I can't recall what's it called tho...
Wolf and man unite in many stories of old, but not in that many in my area. Here, we worshipped the Bear. Bear was our angestor and brother and the king of the forest. We gave an occasional bride for him and held feast for him. The relationship between wild bears and women was an interesting one in old finnish myth. For example - it was believed that a bear doesn't hurt a woman. That was one reason to keep the woman in the homesteads - to keep the bear away. A woman had certain SEXUAL power, that even the bear bowed to. The cattle was let outside so, that the hostess of the house stood upon the barn door with her legs spread, so that the cattle walked out underneath her sex, and thus gained protective power against bears. Even today, when old women occasionally come across a bear while picking berries, the known trick to drive the bear away is to lift up your skirt and show the bear your ass - and c*nt. The bear will be humbled by this, and turns away.
There are finnish tales about riding on moose- though. Some people even milked moose, and still do in carelia. Then there are ofcourse Reindeers in Lapland. I'd like to recommend to you a following movie: The White Reindeer (1952). It is available with English subtitles, if you just can find it. It's a Sami tale about a were-reindeer witch woman.
About giants hidden in the hills... Here's a modernized (70's) and translated Lappish folk-song about the birth of the great Saana- and Malla - hills I Lapland..
All sort of small detail and stuff for inspiration. But yeah...I don't really know where best to put it... xD Not sure if all this even belongs in Hyperborea - thread. Oh well..
I think I will put stuff like this in my story-thread, and change the title to " Squirrel tales - Fan Fiction & Finnish Folklore". Feel free to request for anything there!
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Post by buxom9sorceress on May 4, 2016 22:10:42 GMT -5
Hey Venaala, your posts in here are very interesting, revealing, and very good points. You have inspired me about possible 'Hyperborea legends' more than any other REH-fan writer or wild speculator. Thanks very much for all, + links. .... That's the sweetest thing anyone ever said to me! <3 I'm so touched by this BP! Thankyou very much for your kind words. I am happy if I have been able to inspire, as I am inspired.
As you propably notice (even if you didn't like the story, hehe) in my quikie scratch of a story about two daggers and whatnot, the heroine was a Hyperborean hybrid. I might make her an actual character with more stories about her... at some point..in the future..when I have time and yadda yadda....
I agree that Hyperborea is fertile land for storywriters, partially BECAUSE not much is known/written about it. Ofcourse we must not forget, that there is no "one right" fiction. I know there are a lot of pure...what's wher word...Puretonologists? xD ...who want to say "Actually! This is not what it is like" - as if fiction that was written before is any more "correct" than the new fiction being written. As long as Howard didn't write it,anyone can. And anyone can write it to be JSUT the way they want it. Aint that neat? ------------------------------------------------
Where I live is called "the wolf border". We have a lot of wolves. I dunno about wolf-riding, though.. That seems like a Russian tale. There is a tale about a prince who rides on a wolf. I can't recall what's it called tho...
Wolf and man unite in many stories of old, but not in that many in my area. Here, we worshipped the Bear. Bear was our angestor and brother and the king of the forest. We gave an occasional bride for him and held feast for him. The relationship between wild bears and women was an interesting one in old finnish myth. For example - it was believed that a bear doesn't hurt a woman. That was one reason to keep the woman in the homesteads - to keep the bear away. A woman had certain SEXUAL power, that even the bear bowed to. The cattle was let outside so, that the hostess of the house stood upon the barn door with her legs spread, so that the cattle walked out underneath her sex, and thus gained protective power against bears. Even today, when old women occasionally come across a bear while picking berries, the known trick to drive the bear away is to lift up your skirt and show the bear your ass - and c*nt. The bear will be humbled by this, and turns away.
There are finnish tales about riding on moose- though. Some people even milked moose, and still do in carelia. Then there are ofcourse Reindeers in Lapland. I'd like to recommend to you a following movie: The White Reindeer (1952). It is available with English subtitles, if you just can find it. It's a Sami tale about a were-reindeer witch woman.
About giants hidden in the hills... Here's a modernized (70's) and translated Lappish folk-song about the birth of the great Saana- and Malla - hills I Lapland..
All sort of small detail and stuff for inspiration. But yeah...I don't really know where best to put it... xD Not sure if all this even belongs in Hyperborea - thread. Oh well..
I think I will put stuff like this in my story-thread, and change the title to " Squirrel tales - Fan Fiction & Finnish Folklore". Feel free to request for anything there!
Hi Venaala. you have done it again: your ideas & folklore info have inspired me even more, about possible Hyperborean tales. your info about the wolves, and bears, and sexual powers, are great. and i like the idea of riding on a big moose. Many thanks for all your knowledge of the far north. I welcome any more folk tales info from you. ==== ==== i think PURISTS is the word you were looking for? [ in my experience, most REH-Purists are not creative writers, and never write any new tales set in the world of Conan. They should try it. They might enjoy themselves, and entertain other fans too? I believe that each keen Conan fan has at least 1 good fan tale in their mind. They should share it with other fans. It could be a big hit, and lead them to write more? ] ==== you should keep your thread just for your own new fan tales. And start another thread for all your Finnish folklore? [ keeping them in separate threads is easier for readers to navigate and find exactly what they want ] ==== a new tale called "the wolf border" would be interesting and cool? == living in "the wolf border" area is very cool real name indeed. [ do you folks have any problems /danger from the wolves? Take care and keep safe. ] -- Best wishes from Bux. [ please call me Bux ? ] |
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Post by deuce on May 5, 2016 3:55:52 GMT -5
This was the firs time that I red about Hyperboreans. Very interesting - and inspiring, to a native finn. Maybe I'll open my thought about this a little, for the annoyance or delight of you all. Why would it be "inspiring"? There is nothing in Robert E. Howard's description of his "Hyperboreans" that would "inspire" me. They are slavers and colonialists. They also probably engage in torture. That view would be fine, except that REH's Hyperborea was the source of all Hyborian nations, to a certain extent. They obviously align with the Indo-European tribes (minus the Celts and Germanics). Howard set them up to be "pseudo-Indo-Europeans". Indo-Europeans: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-EuropeansREH indicated cultural commonality from Hyperborea to Argos to Khauran (if not beyond). Your "Suomi/Saami" paradigm won't work. Robert E. Howard had a very positive view of the Finns in the modern/historical era. Why isn't that "good enough"? There were no "Scandinavians/Germanics" in the Thurian Age. As far as "ethnic" Southern Slavs or Brythonic Celts, there are no analogues in Howard's "Hyborian Age". There aren't any Berbers, either. You would rather be the most hated ethnic Hyborian group than not be represented? You also realize that REH generally considered "younger" ethnic groups as "better", right? So, the Finns are "great"? As opposed to the slaving, imperialist Hyperboreans, right? Why do you want to be "Hyperborean? JRR Tolkien loved Finnish mythology: www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34063157Robert E. Howard liked the Finnish people and knew almost nothing about Finnish mythology. |
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Post by deuce on May 5, 2016 4:26:26 GMT -5
In the 18-hundreds, when finnish folk-lore was finally recorded and written down from some parts, a lore-collector heard from an old blind woman this sort of a tale: "Before we came here there lived the russkies. Before them were the Sami people, and they had conquered the land from the Yotuni." This knowledge of the old woman had lived from generation to generation before it was finally written down, and it reached so far to the past that the end of it was in myth. "Russkies" refer to carelians - yet another finnish subroup. The Sami people still exist and now live in Lapland. However "Yotuni" from which the Sami people had conquered their land, has no one today ever seen. It refers to "Giants", or "tall people". Let our imaginations fly. Considering the incursions by Swedes, why wouldn't this be a borrowing of "Jotun" ("j" being "y")? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6tunnYou talk about "Finnish folklore being written down". Lonnrot, correct? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_L%C3%B6nnrotThere is virtually nothing (in regard to Finnish mythology) in Howard's stories, but I've loved Finnish folklore since I was a child. I've had friends from Finland. Tolkien loved the Finnish language. NONE of that changes the fact that REH barely knew about Finland (as opposed to Russia) and in no way was Finland the model for "Hyperborea". If REH wanted to turn my part of the USA into "Hyperborea", I'd refuse. Howard's "Hyperborea" was a hell-hole. Why not write a story about the girl who took care of Turlogh? For that matter, why not write stories beyond the worlds of REH and JRRT? |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 4:34:23 GMT -5
This was the firs time that I red about Hyperboreans. Very interesting - and inspiring, to a native finn. Maybe I'll open my thought about this a little, for the annoyance or delight of you all. Why would it be "inspiring"? There is nothing in Robert E. Howard's description of his "Hyperboreans" that would "inspire" me. They are slavers and colonialists. They also probably engage in torture. That view would be fine, except that REH's Hyperborea was the source of all Hyborian nations, to a certain extent. They obviously align with the Indo-European tribes (minus the Celts and Germanics). Howard set them up to be "pseudo-Indo-Europeans". Indo-Europeans: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-EuropeansREH indicated cultural commonality from Hyperborea to Argos to Khauran (if not beyond). Your "Suomi/Saami" paradigm won't work. Robert E. Howard had a very positive view of the Finns in the modern/historical era. Why isn't that "good enough"? There were no "Scandinavians/Germanics" in the Thurian Age. As far as "ethnic" Southern Slavs or Brythonic Celts, there are no analogues in Howard's "Hyborian Age". There aren't any Berbers, either. You would rather be the most hated ethnic Hyborian group than not be represented? You also realize that REH generally considered "younger" ethnic groups as "better", right? So, the Finns are "great"? As opposed to the slaving, imperialist Hyperboreans, right? Why do you want to be "Hyperborean? JRR Tolkien loved Finnish mythology: www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34063157Robert E. Howard liked the Finnish people and knew almost nothing about Finnish mythology.
My, what is this great source of negativity and critisizm? We have a true cynicism and magnificent case of snobbery going on here!
Firstly. I don't think I need to justify my inspiration to anyone.
Secondly, I don't really care what REH thinks about ME, or my thoughts. I doub't he really thinks anything at all... Point is, my thoughts are mine, and I am entitled to find my own ways of thinking, aswell as seeing fantasy worlds and the real world in the way I like! I happen to find a lot of thrill and fachination from imagining story fitted to reality/in this case the myth of the real world. Those are not so far apart after all, a story against another story.
I will continue to be inspired, and spun outrageous and WRONG ideas here all around. Sorry!
I think you've purposefully mistaken ALOT of what I've typed out here. I don't feel like correcting it just to please you, so I rather leave it.
Chill mate!
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 4:41:49 GMT -5
In the 18-hundreds, when finnish folk-lore was finally recorded and written down from some parts, a lore-collector heard from an old blind woman this sort of a tale: "Before we came here there lived the russkies. Before them were the Sami people, and they had conquered the land from the Yotuni." This knowledge of the old woman had lived from generation to generation before it was finally written down, and it reached so far to the past that the end of it was in myth. "Russkies" refer to carelians - yet another finnish subroup. The Sami people still exist and now live in Lapland. However "Yotuni" from which the Sami people had conquered their land, has no one today ever seen. It refers to "Giants", or "tall people". Let our imaginations fly. Considering the incursions by Swedes, why wouldn't this be a borrowing of "Jotun" ("j" being "y")? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6tunnYou talk about "Finnish folklore being written down". Lonnrot, correct? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_L%C3%B6nnrotThere is virtually nothing (in regard to Finnish mythology) in Howard's stories, but I've loved Finnish folklore since I was a child. I've had friends from Finland. Tolkien loved the Finnish language. NONE of that changes the fact that REH barely knew about Finland (as opposed to Russia) and in no way was Finland the model for "Hyperborea". If REH wanted to turn my part of the USA into "Hyperborea", I'd refuse. Howard's "Hyperborea" was a hell-hole. Why not write a story about the girl who took care of Turlogh? For that matter, why not write stories beyond the worlds of REH and JRRT?
Why not stop digging out mistakes or details you can spun around as some kind of accusation, and put all that energy to something more productive? Really, this is almost like you are trying to abuse me with your pointing finger. Like I said, I am not going to try to correct any of your claims. And I think and write what I like. If I can I try to inspire others spread some fun and good will, while doing that. How about you try doing the same sometimes. Duuuuude!
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Post by deuce on May 5, 2016 11:36:09 GMT -5
Considering the incursions by Swedes, why wouldn't this be a borrowing of "Jotun" ("j" being "y")? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6tunnYou talk about "Finnish folklore being written down". Lonnrot, correct? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_L%C3%B6nnrotThere is virtually nothing (in regard to Finnish mythology) in Howard's stories, but I've loved Finnish folklore since I was a child. I've had friends from Finland. Tolkien loved the Finnish language. NONE of that changes the fact that REH barely knew about Finland (as opposed to Russia) and in no way was Finland the model for "Hyperborea". If REH wanted to turn my part of the USA into "Hyperborea", I'd refuse. Howard's "Hyperborea" was a hell-hole. Why not write a story about the girl who took care of Turlogh? For that matter, why not write stories beyond the worlds of REH and JRRT?
Why not stop digging out mistakes or details you can spun around as some kind of accusation, and put all that energy to something more productive? Really, this is almost like you are trying to abuse me with your pointing finger. Like I said, I am not going to try to correct any of your claims. And I think and write what I like. If I can I try to inspire others spread some fun and good will, while doing that. How about you try doing the same sometimes. Duuuuude!
Wow. I say the Finns are cool and suggest that you soar off into your own creative world of fiction (we need more fantasy based on Finnish folklore) and I'm "accusing" and "abusing" you? Go ahead and "think and write" what you want. If you're so creative and free, why don't you just write stories in your own world? I'm trying to set you free, but you want to stay in your Hyborian Age straitjacket. I've never, ever criticized your fiction. |
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