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Post by kemp on Apr 3, 2018 9:18:19 GMT -5
Looks good, especially now that the Knightfall season has ended, and I wouldn't mind more medieval drama. This seems to be about the conquest of Byzantine southeast Europe, looking at it from the angle of the Turks with Mehmet as the central character. That would be interesting considering Mehmet was one of history's great conquerors. I must check it out, but I would need subtitles unfortunately. The second episode was screened last week and seems, for now, to be well received by the Turkish public. If interest continues I'm pretty certain some episodes will turn up on youtube with subs. You're right, Mehmet was a great conqueror, but, I do not know if the series will survive long enough to show the Conquest of Constantinople in 1453 - there's an awful lot of competition, with several historical dramas set in the Ottoman era these days with Ertuğrul: Resurrection leading the pack. Here's a teaser trailer for episode 111 of Ertuğrul (I forgot to mention that Ertuğrul was the father of Osman, founder of the Ottoman Empire. Wikipedia link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ErtuğrulWith Ertuğrul facing off against Byzantines, Crusaders and Mongols you know its going to be good viewing. Seems that there is lately a lot of good historical drama coming out of the Turkish TRT television. I will be looking into these shows. Thanks. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 15:28:43 GMT -5
The Xianbei and Wuhuan of the Donghu Confederation: according to Chinese Chronicles.I have kinda neglected lesser known tribes of Eastern Mongolia and Manchuria recently. Time to sort that out, a bit   The Donghu (translates as Eastern Barbarians in Chinese) were the eastern neighbors of the Hunnu (Xiongnu) and by 155 AD the Xianbei, an offshoot of the Donghu, crushed the Northern Hunnu, becoming masters of the Mongolian steppe. By the 4th century, the Xianbei supplanted the Hunnic Dynasties of Northern China establishing their own rule and dominance of Northern China till the late 6th Century. The Xianbei probably spoke a Mongolic language, some linguists attribute a Turkic language to the Xianbei rulers of Northern China, especially to the Tuoba (Tabgach in Turkic) clan, they founded the Northern Wei Dynasty (386–535). Some Xianbei/Tuoba words are extant and preserved in Chinese transcription and seem to demonstrate that they spoke a Turko-Mongolian language, basically words common to both of these Altaic languages, but, there are also a few words that can only be found in the Mongolian languages. So, a probable Mongolian origin is more likely. The horde probably, also consisted of another significant Altaic language; and that was probably Tungusic, the linguistic ancestors of the Manchurians. Below I have added English translations concerning the early Donghu tribes from the following sources: Wei shu of Wang Shen (c. 255 AD), as found in the San guo zhi of Chen Shou (285–297 AD) Hou Han shu of Fan Ye (early 5th century) San guo zhi zhu of Pei Songzhi (429 AD) There are obviously similarities with the Hunnu (Xiongnu). And interestingly, there are some differences with the Hunnu: The first concerns agriculture among the Donghu. In contrast, the Hunnu knew no agriculture, according to Chinese sources. And also the Matrilineal nature of the early Donghu tribes. It is their mother who possesses the ancestral lineage.The Early Donghu Wuhuan and Xianbei: according to Chinese Chronicles. They excel at mounted archery, and hunting birds and beasts with arrows is their [main] occupation. They follow the rivers and grasslands to pasture their herds, and they do not have a permanent dwelling. They shelter in yurts, which open to the east, facing the sun. They eat meat and drink kumiss, and use wool for clothing.
The animals [of the Xianbei] are different from those of the central states, and include wild horses, plains sheep, and horn-tip cows, the horns of which are used to make bows, customarily called “horn bows.” They also have sable, na, and hunzi-rodents, whose pelts are soft and supple. These are known throughout the world as famous furs. ... the women are able to pierce leather to make embroidery and weave felted wool. The men are able to make bows, arrows, and bridles, and to smelt metal into weaponry.
..their land is suitable for millet and eastern qiang, which resembles fleabane (pengcao), its seeds like millet, ripening in the tenth lunar month. They observe the gestation and birthing among the birds and beasts in order to differentiate the four seasons.Their custom is to know the gestation and birthing among birds and beasts, and thereby calculate time according to the four seasons, and when planting they always use the bugu bird (literally, the “grain-disseminating bird”) for timing. They are able to make distilled liquor but don’t know how to make fermented. They depend on the central states for rice.
... the strong eat the richest and finest [foods], while the old eat and drink what is left over, as [they] esteem the strong and healthy, and debase the old and weak.In their custom, if their father or elder brother dies, they marry their stepmother or sister-in-law. If they do not have a sister-in-law, then their own sons become familial to their second wife’s uncles, and if she dies then they return to their original home.
 Those who are brave, strong, and capable of arbitrating grievances are promoted as chieftains, and there is no [tradition of] succession in rulership. Within each encampment is a lower-level leader, and several hundred thousand encampments form one tribe. When the chieftain has an order, it is carved on wood as a letter, and although they lack writing, the tribesmen do not dare defy it. They do not have constant clan names and surnames, and instead take the name of their chieftain strongman as their surname. From the chieftain down, each cares for his own herds and goods, and they do not provide corvée labor. ... On their norms and laws: if someone disobeys the words of a chieftain, [the penalty is death]. For stealing, [the penalty is] not death. In cases of massacres [between encampments], the camps are ordered to compensate each other. If compensation is not attainable, it is reported to the chieftain to pacify. If the guilty gives up their herds of cows and sheep as recompense for the deaths, it then is resolved. If one kills one’s own father or elder brother, it is not a crime. If one [attempts to] defect, he is captured by the chieftain, none within the tribe will accept him, and everyone chases him into a remote area in the middle of the desert. Their nature is fierce and obstinate. If angered, [they will] kill their father or elder brothers, but will never harm their mothers. It is their mother who possesses the ancestral lineage (zulei), so there is no reason for their father or elder brothers to avenge enmity on behalf of each other.When they take a wife, they first assess mutual affection with the woman, and some wait half a year or one hundred days, then send cows, horses, goats, livestock as betrothal gifts. The husband returns with his wife to her family, and each morning he must pay obeisance to them without respect to a hierarchy within the family, but does not pay obeisance to his own parents. He acts as a servant to his wife’s family for one or two years, and then his wife’s family then generously gives their daughter, and the wealth of the dwelling is managed together. According to their custom, when a high-ranking fighting man dies, as they prepare the body for the coffin, there are tearful lamentations, and when they near the tomb they then sing and dance to send off [the body]. They fatten a dog, and harness it with colorful tassels, and along with the deceased’s riding clothes, they burn it all and send it off. They use a special succession of dogs in order to protect the soul of the deceased as it returns to Chi Mountain. Chi Mountain is several thousand li northwest of Liaodong, and [this practice] is similar to that of the souls of the people in the central states returning to Mount Tai. When the day of the burial arrives, relatives gather to sit through the night, and harness the dogs into position with horses, some singing and lamenting, and others giving them meat. Two people speak incantations, to summon the soul of the deceased to come, as it passes through obstacles, and when the soul reaches Chi Mountain, they then kill the dogs and riding clothing and burn it all. [They] revere ghosts and spirits, and worship heaven, earth, the sun, the moon, the stars, mountains, and rivers, as well as the strong and well known among their
former chieftains. In their worship they use cows and sheep as sacrifices, in the end burning them. Whenever they eat or drink they must first worship.If they have an illness, they know how to do moxibustion; sometimes they apply a heated stone or lay on the heated earth; sometimes they use a knife to cut through the blood vessels for bloodletting, by tracing the source of the pain, and supplicating to the gods of heaven, earth, mountains and rivers, and they do not have acupuncture.
Source for translations: Nina Duthie, Origins, Ancestors, and Imperial Authority in Early Northern Wei Historiography, Columbia University, 2015
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Post by kemp on Apr 5, 2018 9:55:56 GMT -5
The Xianbei and Wuhuan of the Donghu Confederation: according to Chinese Chronicles.I have kinda neglected lesser known tribes of Eastern Mongolia and Manchuria recently. Time to sort that out, a bit The Donghu (translates as Eastern Barbarians in Chinese) were the eastern neighbors of the Hunnu (Xiongnu) and by 155 AD the Xianbei, an offshoot of the Donghu, crushed the Northern Hunnu, becoming masters of the Mongolian steppe. By the 4th century, the Xianbei supplanted the Hunnic Dynasties of Northern China establishing their own rule and dominance of Northern China till the late 6th Century. The Xianbei probably spoke a Mongolic language, some linguists attribute a Turkic language to the Xianbei rulers of Northern China, especially to the Tuoba (Tabgach in Turkic) clan, they founded the Northern Wei Dynasty (386–535). Some Xianbei/Tuoba words are extant and preserved in Chinese transcription and seem to demonstrate that they spoke a Turko-Mongolian language, basically words common to both of these Altaic languages, but, there are also a few words that can only be found in the Mongolian languages. So, a probable Mongolian origin is more likely. The horde probably, also consisted of another significant Altaic language; and that was probably Tungusic, the linguistic ancestors of the Manchurians. Below I have added English translations concerning the early Donghu tribes from the following sources: Wei shu of Wang Shen (c. 255 AD), as found in the San guo zhi of Chen Shou (285–297 AD) Hou Han shu of Fan Ye (early 5th century) San guo zhi zhu of Pei Songzhi (429 AD) There are obviously similarities with the Hunnu (Xiongnu). And interestingly, there are some differences with the Hunnu: The first concerns agriculture among the Donghu. In contrast, the Hunnu knew no agriculture, according to Chinese sources. And also the Matrilineal nature of the early Donghu tribes. It is their mother who possesses the ancestral lineage.The Early Donghu Wuhuan and Xianbei: according to Chinese Chronicles. They excel at mounted archery, and hunting birds and beasts with arrows is their [main] occupation. They follow the rivers and grasslands to pasture their herds, and they do not have a permanent dwelling. They shelter in yurts, which open to the east, facing the sun. They eat meat and drink kumiss, and use wool for clothing.
The animals [of the Xianbei] are different from those of the central states, and include wild horses, plains sheep, and horn-tip cows, the horns of which are used to make bows, customarily called “horn bows.” They also have sable, na, and hunzi-rodents, whose pelts are soft and supple. These are known throughout the world as famous furs. ... the women are able to pierce leather to make embroidery and weave felted wool. The men are able to make bows, arrows, and bridles, and to smelt metal into weaponry.
..their land is suitable for millet and eastern qiang, which resembles fleabane (pengcao), its seeds like millet, ripening in the tenth lunar month. They observe the gestation and birthing among the birds and beasts in order to differentiate the four seasons.Their custom is to know the gestation and birthing among birds and beasts, and thereby calculate time according to the four seasons, and when planting they always use the bugu bird (literally, the “grain-disseminating bird”) for timing. They are able to make distilled liquor but don’t know how to make fermented. They depend on the central states for rice.
... the strong eat the richest and finest [foods], while the old eat and drink what is left over, as [they] esteem the strong and healthy, and debase the old and weak.In their custom, if their father or elder brother dies, they marry their stepmother or sister-in-law. If they do not have a sister-in-law, then their own sons become familial to their second wife’s uncles, and if she dies then they return to their original home.
Those who are brave, strong, and capable of arbitrating grievances are promoted as chieftains, and there is no [tradition of] succession in rulership. Within each encampment is a lower-level leader, and several hundred thousand encampments form one tribe. When the chieftain has an order, it is carved on wood as a letter, and although they lack writing, the tribesmen do not dare defy it. They do not have constant clan names and surnames, and instead take the name of their chieftain strongman as their surname. From the chieftain down, each cares for his own herds and goods, and they do not provide corvée labor. ... On their norms and laws: if someone disobeys the words of a chieftain, [the penalty is death]. For stealing, [the penalty is] not death. In cases of massacres [between encampments], the camps are ordered to compensate each other. If compensation is not attainable, it is reported to the chieftain to pacify. If the guilty gives up their herds of cows and sheep as recompense for the deaths, it then is resolved. If one kills one’s own father or elder brother, it is not a crime. If one [attempts to] defect, he is captured by the chieftain, none within the tribe will accept him, and everyone chases him into a remote area in the middle of the desert. Their nature is fierce and obstinate. If angered, [they will] kill their father or elder brothers, but will never harm their mothers. It is their mother who possesses the ancestral lineage (zulei), so there is no reason for their father or elder brothers to avenge enmity on behalf of each other.When they take a wife, they first assess mutual affection with the woman, and some wait half a year or one hundred days, then send cows, horses, goats, livestock as betrothal gifts. The husband returns with his wife to her family, and each morning he must pay obeisance to them without respect to a hierarchy within the family, but does not pay obeisance to his own parents. He acts as a servant to his wife’s family for one or two years, and then his wife’s family then generously gives their daughter, and the wealth of the dwelling is managed together. According to their custom, when a high-ranking fighting man dies, as they prepare the body for the coffin, there are tearful lamentations, and when they near the tomb they then sing and dance to send off [the body]. They fatten a dog, and harness it with colorful tassels, and along with the deceased’s riding clothes, they burn it all and send it off. They use a special succession of dogs in order to protect the soul of the deceased as it returns to Chi Mountain. Chi Mountain is several thousand li northwest of Liaodong, and [this practice] is similar to that of the souls of the people in the central states returning to Mount Tai. When the day of the burial arrives, relatives gather to sit through the night, and harness the dogs into position with horses, some singing and lamenting, and others giving them meat. Two people speak incantations, to summon the soul of the deceased to come, as it passes through obstacles, and when the soul reaches Chi Mountain, they then kill the dogs and riding clothing and burn it all. [They] revere ghosts and spirits, and worship heaven, earth, the sun, the moon, the stars, mountains, and rivers, as well as the strong and well known among their
former chieftains. In their worship they use cows and sheep as sacrifices, in the end burning them. Whenever they eat or drink they must first worship.If they have an illness, they know how to do moxibustion; sometimes they apply a heated stone or lay on the heated earth; sometimes they use a knife to cut through the blood vessels for bloodletting, by tracing the source of the pain, and supplicating to the gods of heaven, earth, mountains and rivers, and they do not have acupuncture.
Source for translations: Nina Duthie, Origins, Ancestors, and Imperial Authority in Early Northern Wei Historiography, Columbia University, 2015 Well researched. So the Xianbei might have spoken a Mongolian language to begin with, perhaps picking up a significant number of Turkic loan words over time, hence the reference to a Turco Mongolian language. Seems probable, even in English we use words such as yogurt, horde, quiver and Mammoth which have a Turkic origin, albeit to a much lesser extent than say the Turkic borrowings from some of the peoples from eastern Europe and Eurasia. The description of the early Donghu Wuhuan and Xianbei by the Chinese chroniclers paints a very nomadic and clannish image of these so called eastern barbarians. Their worship seems animist, but I also understand that the early Turks worshipped Tengri the sky god, as their chief deity, Tenri even used these days by many Turkic peoples as a generic for any god, or God in the monotheistic sense, and 4th century Chinese annals attest to the usage of Tangi/Cheng-Li, but in relation to the Xiongnu. Interestingly enough, Tengri was known as yüce or yaratıcı tengri after the Turks began to migrate and leave middle Asia, and Turkish mythology may be closer to the proto Indo European religion than say near eastern or Mediterranean religious beliefs. Tengri might be similar to the Indo European Dyeus, also associated with the sky. Khan Tengri mountain  |
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Post by deuce on Apr 6, 2018 12:27:54 GMT -5
The art of Timur Dairbaev.   Cool! I hadn't seen his work before. Thanks. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2018 14:02:51 GMT -5
The Xianbei and Wuhuan of the Donghu Confederation: according to Chinese Chronicles.I have kinda neglected lesser known tribes of Eastern Mongolia and Manchuria recently. Time to sort that out, a bit The Donghu (translates as Eastern Barbarians in Chinese) were the eastern neighbors of the Hunnu (Xiongnu) and by 155 AD the Xianbei, an offshoot of the Donghu, crushed the Northern Hunnu, becoming masters of the Mongolian steppe. By the 4th century, the Xianbei supplanted the Hunnic Dynasties of Northern China establishing their own rule and dominance of Northern China till the late 6th Century. The Xianbei probably spoke a Mongolic language, some linguists attribute a Turkic language to the Xianbei rulers of Northern China, especially to the Tuoba (Tabgach in Turkic) clan, they founded the Northern Wei Dynasty (386–535). Some Xianbei/Tuoba words are extant and preserved in Chinese transcription and seem to demonstrate that they spoke a Turko-Mongolian language, basically words common to both of these Altaic languages, but, there are also a few words that can only be found in the Mongolian languages. So, a probable Mongolian origin is more likely. The horde probably, also consisted of another significant Altaic language; and that was probably Tungusic, the linguistic ancestors of the Manchurians. Below I have added English translations concerning the early Donghu tribes from the following sources: Wei shu of Wang Shen (c. 255 AD), as found in the San guo zhi of Chen Shou (285–297 AD) Hou Han shu of Fan Ye (early 5th century) San guo zhi zhu of Pei Songzhi (429 AD) There are obviously similarities with the Hunnu (Xiongnu). And interestingly, there are some differences with the Hunnu: The first concerns agriculture among the Donghu. In contrast, the Hunnu knew no agriculture, according to Chinese sources. And also the Matrilineal nature of the early Donghu tribes. It is their mother who possesses the ancestral lineage.The Early Donghu Wuhuan and Xianbei: according to Chinese Chronicles. They excel at mounted archery, and hunting birds and beasts with arrows is their [main] occupation. They follow the rivers and grasslands to pasture their herds, and they do not have a permanent dwelling. They shelter in yurts, which open to the east, facing the sun. They eat meat and drink kumiss, and use wool for clothing.
The animals [of the Xianbei] are different from those of the central states, and include wild horses, plains sheep, and horn-tip cows, the horns of which are used to make bows, customarily called “horn bows.” They also have sable, na, and hunzi-rodents, whose pelts are soft and supple. These are known throughout the world as famous furs. ... the women are able to pierce leather to make embroidery and weave felted wool. The men are able to make bows, arrows, and bridles, and to smelt metal into weaponry.
..their land is suitable for millet and eastern qiang, which resembles fleabane (pengcao), its seeds like millet, ripening in the tenth lunar month. They observe the gestation and birthing among the birds and beasts in order to differentiate the four seasons.Their custom is to know the gestation and birthing among birds and beasts, and thereby calculate time according to the four seasons, and when planting they always use the bugu bird (literally, the “grain-disseminating bird”) for timing. They are able to make distilled liquor but don’t know how to make fermented. They depend on the central states for rice.
... the strong eat the richest and finest [foods], while the old eat and drink what is left over, as [they] esteem the strong and healthy, and debase the old and weak.In their custom, if their father or elder brother dies, they marry their stepmother or sister-in-law. If they do not have a sister-in-law, then their own sons become familial to their second wife’s uncles, and if she dies then they return to their original home.
Those who are brave, strong, and capable of arbitrating grievances are promoted as chieftains, and there is no [tradition of] succession in rulership. Within each encampment is a lower-level leader, and several hundred thousand encampments form one tribe. When the chieftain has an order, it is carved on wood as a letter, and although they lack writing, the tribesmen do not dare defy it. They do not have constant clan names and surnames, and instead take the name of their chieftain strongman as their surname. From the chieftain down, each cares for his own herds and goods, and they do not provide corvée labor. ... On their norms and laws: if someone disobeys the words of a chieftain, [the penalty is death]. For stealing, [the penalty is] not death. In cases of massacres [between encampments], the camps are ordered to compensate each other. If compensation is not attainable, it is reported to the chieftain to pacify. If the guilty gives up their herds of cows and sheep as recompense for the deaths, it then is resolved. If one kills one’s own father or elder brother, it is not a crime. If one [attempts to] defect, he is captured by the chieftain, none within the tribe will accept him, and everyone chases him into a remote area in the middle of the desert. Their nature is fierce and obstinate. If angered, [they will] kill their father or elder brothers, but will never harm their mothers. It is their mother who possesses the ancestral lineage (zulei), so there is no reason for their father or elder brothers to avenge enmity on behalf of each other.When they take a wife, they first assess mutual affection with the woman, and some wait half a year or one hundred days, then send cows, horses, goats, livestock as betrothal gifts. The husband returns with his wife to her family, and each morning he must pay obeisance to them without respect to a hierarchy within the family, but does not pay obeisance to his own parents. He acts as a servant to his wife’s family for one or two years, and then his wife’s family then generously gives their daughter, and the wealth of the dwelling is managed together. According to their custom, when a high-ranking fighting man dies, as they prepare the body for the coffin, there are tearful lamentations, and when they near the tomb they then sing and dance to send off [the body]. They fatten a dog, and harness it with colorful tassels, and along with the deceased’s riding clothes, they burn it all and send it off. They use a special succession of dogs in order to protect the soul of the deceased as it returns to Chi Mountain. Chi Mountain is several thousand li northwest of Liaodong, and [this practice] is similar to that of the souls of the people in the central states returning to Mount Tai. When the day of the burial arrives, relatives gather to sit through the night, and harness the dogs into position with horses, some singing and lamenting, and others giving them meat. Two people speak incantations, to summon the soul of the deceased to come, as it passes through obstacles, and when the soul reaches Chi Mountain, they then kill the dogs and riding clothing and burn it all. [They] revere ghosts and spirits, and worship heaven, earth, the sun, the moon, the stars, mountains, and rivers, as well as the strong and well known among their
former chieftains. In their worship they use cows and sheep as sacrifices, in the end burning them. Whenever they eat or drink they must first worship.If they have an illness, they know how to do moxibustion; sometimes they apply a heated stone or lay on the heated earth; sometimes they use a knife to cut through the blood vessels for bloodletting, by tracing the source of the pain, and supplicating to the gods of heaven, earth, mountains and rivers, and they do not have acupuncture.
Source for translations: Nina Duthie, Origins, Ancestors, and Imperial Authority in Early Northern Wei Historiography, Columbia University, 2015 Well researched. So the Xianbei might have spoken a Mongolian language to begin with, perhaps picking up a significant number of Turkic loan words over time, hence the reference to a Turco Mongolian language. Seems probable, even in English we use words such as yogurt, horde, quiver and Mammoth which have a Turkic origin, albeit to a much lesser extent than say the Turkic borrowings from some of the peoples from eastern Europe and Eurasia. The description of the early Donghu Wuhuan and Xianbei by the Chinese chroniclers paints a very nomadic and clannish image of these so called eastern barbarians. Their worship seems animist, but I also understand that the early Turks worshipped Tengri the sky god, as their chief deity, Tenri even used these days by many Turkic peoples as a generic for any god, or God in the monotheistic sense, and 4th century Chinese annals attest to the usage of Tangi/Cheng-Li, but in relation to the Xiongnu. Interestingly enough, Tengri was known as yüce or yaratıcı tengri after the Turks began to migrate and leave middle Asia, and Turkish mythology may be closer to the proto Indo European religion than say near eastern or Mediterranean religious beliefs. Tengri might be similar to the Indo European Dyeus, also associated with the sky. Khan Tengri mountain Yeah, good ol' Tengri is still alive and kicking among the Turkic and Mongolian peoples. Yüce yaratıcı roughly translates as Great Creator in modern Turkish. I agree, there probably is a very ancient connection between the Altaic and Indo-Europeans, some scholars suggest there is a linguistic connection between the Altaic, Uralic and Indo-European groups. The language of the Xianbei can be a tricky one. The original Donghu (circa 200 BC) probably consisted of tribes of Turkic, Mongol and Tungusic descent and other, as yet unidentified groups. Fortunately, in the 4th century, the language of the ruling Touba clan preserved in Chinese transcription appears to be, again probably, Mongolian. But, then again, Turkologists seem to find Turks everywhere and Mongolists seem to find Mongols everywhere And to make things a little more confusing some scholars claim the Hunnu (Xiongnu) spoke a Yeniseian language, the only extant representatives of the Yeniseian group being the Kets - they live along the Yenisei river in Russia! Furthermore, the possible connection between the Yeniseian and the Na-Dené language group (Dené–Yeniseian theory) of North America is fascinating! That means, potentially, the language of the Hunnu coulda been related to the Athapaskan language of the Navajo and Apache - now that'd be really cool. |
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Post by kemp on Apr 8, 2018 0:48:43 GMT -5
The early Indo European peoples were influenced by Turks ( and vice versa ). From a linguistic stand point that might have occurred at different times as far back as when the first Proto Indo Europeans began to migrate from their original homelands north and east of the Black Sea.
Considering that modern Europe has three nations where a Uralo Altaic language is the main national language (Hungary, Finland and the European part of Turkey ), not to mention the fact that Europe was settled at different times by waves of Turkic and Mongol peoples such as the Huns, Avars, Bulgars, Pechenegs, Khazars, Mongols, Magyars, Finns, Sami, Cumans, Ottomans, Seljuks and Tartars just to name a few, it would be natural to say that these people played an important part in forming the cultural, linguistic and ethnic component of Europe ( notably central and eastern Europe ) and greater Eurasia.
The Yeniseian language of the Kets is a hard one to pin down in terms of language family relationship. It is commonly referred to as a Siberian language, and there are linguists that also hold that the tonal system of the Ket language is closer to Vietnamese than the native Siberian languages, also a connection to some of the native American languages as you have pointed out.
It could mean that the language of the western moving Huns might have had a relationship with some of the above, or formed from Turkic and Mongolian influences, at least before the influences of the subject Germanic, Iranian and Slavic speakers.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 13:40:15 GMT -5
Ergun Cagatay & Dogan Kuban (Editors) ,The Turkic Speaking Peoples: 2,000 Years of Art And Culture from Inner Asia to the Balkans, Prestel, 2006
Description:
This comprehensive study of one of history's most powerful and influential civilizations examines the rich heritage of the Turkic culture.
Since 600 A.D. the Turkic culture has imbued Europe and Asia with a cultural history rich in art and literature. From the first nomadic tribes traveling from central Asia to the Mediterranean, through the rise of the Ottoman Empire, to the present day, this book explores the practices and beliefs of the Turkic-speaking peoples. It compares and contrasts the Turkic peoples' historical and modern social and political significance in the regions they inhabit, and their relationships with neighboring cultures. Representing the work of nearly two decades, this lavishly illustrated volume featuring images from an award-winning photographer allows readers to discover a civilization and to understand its role in the world today.
Dogan Kuban is a professor of the History of Architecture at Istanbul Technical University and the author of numerous publications on the history and culture of Turks and Muslims.
Ergun Cagatay is photographer, who has worked for the Associate Press and later the Gamma Agency in Paris. His photographs have appeared in major international magazines. |
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Post by kemp on Apr 10, 2018 8:41:19 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 11:05:33 GMT -5
Yeah, it's a pretty good book, and very heavy - kinda like the Marvel Omnibus volumes. Your absolutely right, the dealers are asking for an awful lot of money on Amazon, the original price was around £50, that's if I remember correctly, anyways I eventually sold my copy a few years ago. The reviews seem fair on Amazon, the least favorable review of the four makes a valid observation: There is a lack of consistency in transcription and spelling, that's thanks to the various contributers to the book. Also the further you get into the book the more the scholars seem to contradict each other. But, to be fair it's to be expected in undertaking such a monumental task. It's still a fantastic book and well worth picking up from the library or if you can find a cheap copy at Abebooks, or sometimes you can get really lucky and find a copy at a secondhand bookstore, you never know. Thanks Kemp. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 11:26:47 GMT -5
Hello again Kemp. You may also find these volumes of interest and they're not quite as expensive. Christoph Baumer's Epic four volume History of Central Asia.They originally cost £25 - now unfortunately, the price has gone up to £30/$39. Still fantastic value considering the excellent overall design of these volumes, with some stunning photographs, maps and very good bibliography if you wish to pursue a particular subject further. The 1st volume.  The epic plains and arid deserts of Central Asia have witnessed some of the greatest migrations, as well as many of the most transformative developments, in the history of civilization. Christoph Baumer's ambitious four-volume treatment of the region charts the 3000-year drama of Scythians and Sarmatians; Soviets and transcontinental Silk Roads; trade routes and the transmission of ideas across the steppes; and the breathless and brutal conquests of Alexander the Great and Chinghiz Khan. Masterfully interweaving the stories of individuals and peoples, the author's engaging prose is richly augmented throughout by colour photographs taken on his own travels. For all the complexity of the history, Dr Baumer, a noted authority on Central Asia, never loses sight of the sweeping grandeur of its overall setting. Volume 1 focuses on the geography of the area now occupied by present-day Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, northern Afghanistan, western and central Mongolia and parts of southern Russia and northern China.
Discussing the changing climates of the Palaeolithic, Mesolithic, Neolithic and Bronze Ages, the author explores subjects as diverse as glacial retreat; the invention of the wheel; the legendary Cimmerians and Amazons; Hellenism and Zoroastrianism; and the Oxus Treasure. Future volumes will explore the later historical periods of the region. www.amazon.com/History-Central-Asia-Steppe-Warriors/dp/1780760604/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1780760604&pd_rd_r=FDYNTQF0CK598AGBRE7C&pd_rd_w=eARsP&pd_rd_wg=3o2FB&psc=1&refRID=FDYNTQF0CK598AGBRE7C&dpID=51yk4jv1y8L&preST=_SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=detail The 2nd volume.  The Age of the Silk Roads (c 200 BC- c 900 AD) shaped the course of the future. The foundation by the Han dynasty of an extensive network of interlinking trade routes, collectively known as the Silk Road, led to an explosion of cultural and commercial transactions across Central Asia that had a profound impact on civilization. In this second volume of his authoritative history of the region, Christoph Baumer explores the unique flow of goods, peoples and ideas along the dusty tracks and wandering caravan routes that brought European and Mediterranean orbits into contact with Asia. The Silk Roads, the author shows, enabled the spread across the known world of Christianity, Manichaeism, Buddhism and Islam, just as earlier they had caused Roman citizens to crave the exotic silk goods of the mysterious Far East. Tracing the rise and fall of empires, this richly illustrated book charts the ebb and flow of epic history: the bitter rivalry of Rome and Parthia; the lucrative mercantile empire of the Sogdians; the founding of Samarkand; and Chinese defeat at the Battle of Talas (751 AD) by the forces of Islam.www.amazon.com/History-Central-Asia-Silk-Roads/dp/178076832X/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=178076832X&pd_rd_r=1X31EKFDQTPR918KT657&pd_rd_w=sBrf2&pd_rd_wg=cHUOK&psc=1&refRID=1X31EKFDQTPR918KT657&dpID=51f8ZrIMwHL&preST=_SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=detail The 3rd Volume.  Between the ninth and the fifteenth centuries, Central Asia was a major political, economic and cultural hub on the Eurasian continent. In the first half of the thirteenth century it was also the pre-eminent centre of power in the largest land-based empire the world has ever seen. This third volume of Christoph Baumer's extensively praised and lavishly illustrated new history of the region is above all a story of invasion, when tumultuous and often brutal conquest profoundly shaped the later history of the globe. The author explores the rise of Islam and the remarkable victories of the Arab armies which - inspired by their vital, austere and egalitarian desert faith - established important new dynasties like the Seljuks, Karakhanids and Ghaznavids. A golden age of artistic, literary and scientific innovation came to a sudden end when, between 1219 and 1260, Genghiz Khan and his successors overran the Chorasmian-Abbasid lands. Dr Baumer shows that the Mongol conquests, while shattering to their enemies, nevertheless resulted in much greater mercantile and cultural contact between Central Asia and Western Europe.www.amazon.com/History-Central-Asia-Islam-Mongols/dp/1784534900/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1784534900&pd_rd_r=5P88E493CK6XKFN6X3AG&pd_rd_w=puvcJ&pd_rd_wg=nuHsk&psc=1&refRID=5P88E493CK6XKFN6X3AG&dpID=416rR1OsFQL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=detail The fourth Volume will be released in August this year. I don't know if I'll pick this volume up. It'll break my Hunnic heart reading about the decline of nomadic power.  For more than a hundred years, Central Asia was the heartland of the mightiest military power on the planet. But after the fragmentation of the all-conquering Mongol polity, the region began a steep decline which rendered this former domain of horse lords peripheral to world affairs. The process of deterioration reached its nadir in the second half of the nineteenth century, when the former territories and sweeping steppes of the great khans were overrun by Tsarist Russia.
In the concluding volume of his acclaimed Central Asia quartet, Christoph Baumer shows how China in the east, and Russia in the northwest, succeeded in throwing off the Mongol yoke to become the masters of their own previous rulers. He suggests that, as traditional transcontinental trade routes declined in importance, it was the 'Great Game' – or cold war between Imperial Russia and Great Britain – which finally brought Central Asia back into play as a region of strategic importance. This epic history concludes with an assessment of the transition to modern independence of the Central Asian states and their struggle to contain radical Islamism.www.amazon.com/dp/1788310497/ref=sxts_sxwds-puwylo_rv_1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3534076942&pd_rd_wg=nTlQc&pf_rd_r=QCD7M20867NTXRQTHZKR&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-top-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_i=1788310497&pd_rd_w=H0LWu&pf_rd_i=Christoph+Baumer+The+History+of+Central+Asia&pd_rd_r=366a5c5a-b6da-4228-b870-69d742914663&ie=UTF8&qid=1523377476&sr=1 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 11:52:35 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2018 12:03:25 GMT -5
From the Huns to the Turks. Mounted Warriors in Europe and Central Asia. This looks very interesting... International Conference 25- 26 April 2108 RGZM | Römisch-Germanisches Zentralmuseum im Kurfürstlichen Schloss Ernst-Ludwig-Platz 2 55116 Mainz The European self-perception is mainly based on the «old world», the Greek and Roman cultures of the Mediterranean, which interacted with the ones in the North. In fact, however, Europe has always been in close contact with the Eurasian steppe region, and thus received critical stimuli, technologies and goods of all kinds. Time and again, powerful confederations of equestrian warriors also came to the West, settling here and establishing contacts with European polities. While the «empires» of the Bulgarians, Hungarians and Turks slowly became medieval and early modern states, the Sarmatians, Huns, Avars or Mongols disappeared from the map.
The conference will focus on the horse-powered polities that came from the East to the environs of Europe between the 4th and 15th century, including the Eurasian peoples who directly or indirectly initiated migrations and military expeditions to Europe. The conference aims to identify typical constellations and processes, but also significant differences among the various tribal federations. Some presentations are dedicated to a specific people, others are devoted to overarching topics. The conference is organised by the Römisch-Germanisches Zentralmuseum Mainz in cooperation with the Institute for Medieval Research of the Austrian Academy of Sciences, Vienna. Wednesday, 25th April 9.30–9.40 h Welcome and Introduction Falko Daim Chair: Walter Pohl 9.40–10.20 h Jan Bemmann (Bonn) Climate Change, Natural Disasters and their Impact on Nomadic Polities Huns 10.20–11.00 h Khodadat Rezakhani (Princeton) On the Fringes of the Eurasian Steppe: Horses and Warriors in the World of the ‘Iranische Hunnen’ 11.00–11.30 h COFFEE BREAK 11.30–12.10 h Timo Stickler (Jena) The Impact of the Huns on the Politics of the Late Roman Empire and vice versa Alans 12.10–12.50 h Richard Foltz (Montreal) The Caucasian Alans between Byzantine Christianity and traditional Paganism 13.00-14.30 h LUNCH BREAK Chair: Neslihan Asutay-Effenberger Avars 14.30–15.10 h Walter Pohl (Wien) The Avars in a Central Eurasian Perspective 15.10–15.50 h Tivadar Vida (Budapest) The Settling of the Carpathian Basin by Mounted Warriors in the Avar Period and the Structure of their Power 16.00–16.30 h COFFEE BREAK 16.30–17.10 h Gergely Csiky (Budapest) The Transformation of Horse Riding in the Steppes during the 1st Millennium AD – Considerations on the Spread of Stirrups in Eurasia 17.10–17.50 h Falko Daim (Mainz - Wien) When Cultures meet: Moving Things, changing Motifs Bulgars 17.50–18.30 h Panos Sophoulis (Sofia) The Bulgar Paradox: A Horse powered (?) Elite in the Balkans 19.00 h Reception for Speakers and Guests Thursday, 26th April Chair: Falko Daim 9.30–10.10 h Johannes Preiser-Kapeller (Wien) Capitals and imperial Landscapes of Steppe Empires in medieval Eurasia Khazars 10.10–10.50 h Nick Evans (Cambridge) The Womb of Iron and Silver: Slavery in the Khazar Economy 11.00–11.30 h COFFEE BREAK Hungarians 11.30–12.10 h Stefan Albrecht (Mainz) The Hungarian Invasions as an common European Trauma 12.10–12.50 h Adam Bollók (Budapest) From "Steppe State" to Christian Kingdom, from Árpád's People to national Ancestors 13.00–14.30 h LUNCH BREAK Turks in Central Asia and in Anatolia Chair: Johannes Preiser-Kapeller 14.30–15.10 h Neslihan Asutay-Effenberger (Berlin – Bochum) The „Turkish Triangle“. From the static Element of the Seljuks to the Ornament in Byzantine Art 15.10–15.50 h Sören Stark (New York) Inner Asian Nomadic Elites of the 5th-6th Centuries CE. An old archaeological Puzzle in the Light of recent Discoveries 15.50–16.30 h Rustam Shukurov (Moskau) Becoming a Roman: Barbarians as a Source of Manpower in Byzantium in the 11th–14th Centuries 16.30–17.00 h COFFEE BREAK 17.00–17.40 h Matteo Compareti (Beijing) Huns and Turks in "Sino-Sogdian" Funerary Monuments and Sogdian Paintings Mongols 17.40–18.20 h Marie Favereau (Oxford) The Mediterranean and the Steppe: The Integration of the Italian Traders into the Golden Horde Closing Remarks: Walter Pohl 18. 30 h END OF THE CONFERENCE
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Post by kemp on Apr 12, 2018 11:35:45 GMT -5
Hello again Kemp. You may also find these volumes of interest and they're not quite as expensive. Christoph Baumer's Epic four volume History of Central Asia.They originally cost £25 - now unfortunately, the price has gone up to £30/$39. Still fantastic value considering the excellent overall design of these volumes, with some stunning photographs, maps and very good bibliography if you wish to pursue a particular subject further. The 1st volume. The epic plains and arid deserts of Central Asia have witnessed some of the greatest migrations, as well as many of the most transformative developments, in the history of civilization. Christoph Baumer's ambitious four-volume treatment of the region charts the 3000-year drama of Scythians and Sarmatians; Soviets and transcontinental Silk Roads; trade routes and the transmission of ideas across the steppes; and the breathless and brutal conquests of Alexander the Great and Chinghiz Khan. Masterfully interweaving the stories of individuals and peoples, the author's engaging prose is richly augmented throughout by colour photographs taken on his own travels. For all the complexity of the history, Dr Baumer, a noted authority on Central Asia, never loses sight of the sweeping grandeur of its overall setting. Volume 1 focuses on the geography of the area now occupied by present-day Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, northern Afghanistan, western and central Mongolia and parts of southern Russia and northern China.
Discussing the changing climates of the Palaeolithic, Mesolithic, Neolithic and Bronze Ages, the author explores subjects as diverse as glacial retreat; the invention of the wheel; the legendary Cimmerians and Amazons; Hellenism and Zoroastrianism; and the Oxus Treasure. Future volumes will explore the later historical periods of the region. www.amazon.com/History-Central-Asia-Steppe-Warriors/dp/1780760604/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1780760604&pd_rd_r=FDYNTQF0CK598AGBRE7C&pd_rd_w=eARsP&pd_rd_wg=3o2FB&psc=1&refRID=FDYNTQF0CK598AGBRE7C&dpID=51yk4jv1y8L&preST=_SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=detail The 2nd volume. The Age of the Silk Roads (c 200 BC- c 900 AD) shaped the course of the future. The foundation by the Han dynasty of an extensive network of interlinking trade routes, collectively known as the Silk Road, led to an explosion of cultural and commercial transactions across Central Asia that had a profound impact on civilization. In this second volume of his authoritative history of the region, Christoph Baumer explores the unique flow of goods, peoples and ideas along the dusty tracks and wandering caravan routes that brought European and Mediterranean orbits into contact with Asia. The Silk Roads, the author shows, enabled the spread across the known world of Christianity, Manichaeism, Buddhism and Islam, just as earlier they had caused Roman citizens to crave the exotic silk goods of the mysterious Far East. Tracing the rise and fall of empires, this richly illustrated book charts the ebb and flow of epic history: the bitter rivalry of Rome and Parthia; the lucrative mercantile empire of the Sogdians; the founding of Samarkand; and Chinese defeat at the Battle of Talas (751 AD) by the forces of Islam.www.amazon.com/History-Central-Asia-Silk-Roads/dp/178076832X/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=178076832X&pd_rd_r=1X31EKFDQTPR918KT657&pd_rd_w=sBrf2&pd_rd_wg=cHUOK&psc=1&refRID=1X31EKFDQTPR918KT657&dpID=51f8ZrIMwHL&preST=_SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=detail The 3rd Volume. Between the ninth and the fifteenth centuries, Central Asia was a major political, economic and cultural hub on the Eurasian continent. In the first half of the thirteenth century it was also the pre-eminent centre of power in the largest land-based empire the world has ever seen. This third volume of Christoph Baumer's extensively praised and lavishly illustrated new history of the region is above all a story of invasion, when tumultuous and often brutal conquest profoundly shaped the later history of the globe. The author explores the rise of Islam and the remarkable victories of the Arab armies which - inspired by their vital, austere and egalitarian desert faith - established important new dynasties like the Seljuks, Karakhanids and Ghaznavids. A golden age of artistic, literary and scientific innovation came to a sudden end when, between 1219 and 1260, Genghiz Khan and his successors overran the Chorasmian-Abbasid lands. Dr Baumer shows that the Mongol conquests, while shattering to their enemies, nevertheless resulted in much greater mercantile and cultural contact between Central Asia and Western Europe.www.amazon.com/History-Central-Asia-Islam-Mongols/dp/1784534900/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1784534900&pd_rd_r=5P88E493CK6XKFN6X3AG&pd_rd_w=puvcJ&pd_rd_wg=nuHsk&psc=1&refRID=5P88E493CK6XKFN6X3AG&dpID=416rR1OsFQL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=detail The fourth Volume will be released in August this year. I don't know if I'll pick this volume up. It'll break my Hunnic heart reading about the decline of nomadic power. For more than a hundred years, Central Asia was the heartland of the mightiest military power on the planet. But after the fragmentation of the all-conquering Mongol polity, the region began a steep decline which rendered this former domain of horse lords peripheral to world affairs. The process of deterioration reached its nadir in the second half of the nineteenth century, when the former territories and sweeping steppes of the great khans were overrun by Tsarist Russia.
In the concluding volume of his acclaimed Central Asia quartet, Christoph Baumer shows how China in the east, and Russia in the northwest, succeeded in throwing off the Mongol yoke to become the masters of their own previous rulers. He suggests that, as traditional transcontinental trade routes declined in importance, it was the 'Great Game' – or cold war between Imperial Russia and Great Britain – which finally brought Central Asia back into play as a region of strategic importance. This epic history concludes with an assessment of the transition to modern independence of the Central Asian states and their struggle to contain radical Islamism.www.amazon.com/dp/1788310497/ref=sxts_sxwds-puwylo_rv_1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3534076942&pd_rd_wg=nTlQc&pf_rd_r=QCD7M20867NTXRQTHZKR&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-top-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_i=1788310497&pd_rd_w=H0LWu&pf_rd_i=Christoph+Baumer+The+History+of+Central+Asia&pd_rd_r=366a5c5a-b6da-4228-b870-69d742914663&ie=UTF8&qid=1523377476&sr=1The History of Central Asia: The Age of the Steppe Warriors seems more my price range. I like the fact that it actually covers earlier tribes such as the Cimmerians, Scythians and Sarmatians, also the mysterious Amazons. I read this volume by Barry Cunliffe years ago. Contains an interesting chapter on the ancient steppe peoples. 'Thracians, Scythians and Dacian 800 BC - 300 AD'.  |
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Post by kemp on Apr 12, 2018 11:42:23 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 11:05:52 GMT -5
Thanks Kemp. I have seen this volume (now in Trade Paperback) and a couple more by Barry Cunliffe at the book stores up West in London. |
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