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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2018 12:15:22 GMT -5
Yeah, the Uygurs got 'Civilized' real quick unfortunately. True, maybe great for the people of the time needing a little peace and equilibrium in their lives, but when the tribes settle down too much it starts to bore us nomad history buffs reading about them centuries later. Thanks for making us aware of some of the movies and tv shows out there Hun. Here is a new Russian movie, I included it because it contains Mongols, and of course I have always associated the Russians with the whole warriors of the steppe tradition, although they have a European medieval streak about them. I agree, the symbiotic nature between the Altaic peoples and the Russian/Slavic peoples is fascinating and also very ancient with a history stretching way back to at least the Hunnic migration.
Kolovrat was initially gonna be a historical movie about the Mongol invasion. For some unknown reason it became a Fantasy movie. The Kazakh Stunt team NOMAD STUNTS worked on Kolovrat, as well as the Russian Viking movie, Conan 2011, Mongol, 47 Ronin, Marco Polo and they even worked on the Ertuğrul Resurrection. Nomad Stunts Demo. I do not think the ancient Uygurs were any more warlike or peaceful than the preceding nomadic tribes of Mongolia. They were sacking the cities of Tang China when the Kaghan converted to Manichaeism. The Uygurs established their capital Ordu-Balik along the Orkhon River in Mongolia (around 20 km north of Karakorum, the later capital of the Mongols). Ordu-Balik proved to be too far from the main trade routes, and the Uygurs fell for the oldest trick in the book when facing an adversary like China; they moved in closer, south of the Gobi leaving the envious tribes north of the Gobi on the steppes of Mongolia to fill the vacuum. By 840 the Kırgız ousted the Uygurs from Mongolia establishing their own nomadic Empire, just like the Uygurs did to the Türks (Gök Türks). I should add, to their credit, the Uygurs were incredibly resilient and adapted to sedentary life well enough. Link for nomad stunts: nomadstunts.com/en/Thanks Kemp. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2018 11:32:10 GMT -5
These Asian hunter-gatherers may have been the first people to domesticate horses
By Michael Price. A documentary reconstruction shows Botai riders, who may have galloped across Kazakhstan about 3500 B.C.E. (NIOBE THOMPSON)
The horse revolutionized prehistoric living, allowing people to travel farther and faster than ever before, and to wage war in yet-unheard-of ways. But who first domesticated horses is a hotly debated question. One leading hypothesis suggests Bronze Age pastoralists called the Yamnaya were the first to saddle up, using their fleet transport to sweep out from the Eurasian steppe and spread their culture—and their genes—far and wide. But a new study of ancient DNA suggests that wasn’t the case in Asia, and that another culture, the Botai, domesticated the horse first.
“This is a really exciting paper,” says Priya Moorjani, a geneticist at the University of California, Berkeley, who notes that the field of ancient DNA is moving so quickly that every study reveals something new. Yet other researchers caution that the debate isn’t anywhere near settled.
The first signs of horse domestication—pottery containing traces of mares’ milk and horse teeth with telltale wear from a riding bit—come from the Botai hunter-gatherers who lived in what is now Kazakhstan from about 3700 B.C.E. to 3100 B.C.E. Yet some researchers thought the isolated Botai were unlikely to have invented horse husbandry because they kept to their hunting and gathering ways long after their neighbors had adopted farming and herding.
A documentary reconstruction shows Botai riders, who may have galloped across Kazakhstan about 3500 B.C.E. NIOBE THOMPSON
These Asian hunter-gatherers may have been the first people to domesticate horses
By Michael PriceMay. 9, 2018 , 1:00 PM
The horse revolutionized prehistoric living, allowing people to travel farther and faster than ever before, and to wage war in yet-unheard-of ways. But who first domesticated horses is a hotly debated question. One leading hypothesis suggests Bronze Age pastoralists called the Yamnaya were the first to saddle up, using their fleet transport to sweep out from the Eurasian steppe and spread their culture—and their genes—far and wide. But a new study of ancient DNA suggests that wasn’t the case in Asia, and that another culture, the Botai, domesticated the horse first.
“This is a really exciting paper,” says Priya Moorjani, a geneticist at the University of California, Berkeley, who notes that the field of ancient DNA is moving so quickly that every study reveals something new. Yet other researchers caution that the debate isn’t anywhere near settled.
The first signs of horse domestication—pottery containing traces of mares’ milk and horse teeth with telltale wear from a riding bit—come from the Botai hunter-gatherers who lived in what is now Kazakhstan from about 3700 B.C.E. to 3100 B.C.E. Yet some researchers thought the isolated Botai were unlikely to have invented horse husbandry because they kept to their hunting and gathering ways long after their neighbors had adopted farming and herding.
These researchers assumed the Botai must have learned to handle horses from the Yamnaya, their neighbors to the west who were already herding sheep and goats. As part of the “steppe hypothesis,” the Yamnaya also migrated east and west during the Bronze Age, mixing with locals and spreading genes found in ancient and modern European, Central Asian, and South Asian populations. Some researchers hypothesize that they also spread early branches of the hypothesized Proto-Indo-European (PIE) language, which later diversified into today’s Indo-European languages, including English, Italian, Hindi, Russian, and Persian.
To explore the Yamnaya’s legacy in Asia, a team led by geneticist Eske Willerslev of the University of Copenhagen and the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom sequenced the whole genomes of 74 ancient Eurasians, most of whom lived between 3500 B.C.E. and 1500 B.C.E. Bodies included people from both the Botai and Yamnaya cultures, among others. The researchers devised a rough family tree, which they extended using samples from modern and ancient people. Artifacts and DNA from skeletons in Central Asia suggest that horse domestication happened first in that region. (NURBOL BAIMUKHANOV)Surprisingly, the team found no Yamnaya DNA in the three Botai individuals, suggesting the two groups hadn’t mixed, the team reports today in Science. That implies the Botai may have tamed horses on their own, following something called the “prey path” to domestication: hunting, then managing herds for food, and finally—riding. “It’s an extremely important achievement from a group of people we all think of as being pretty simple,” Willerslev says.
The new work fits well with a recent study of ancient horse DNA, says zooarchaeologist Sandra Olsen at the University of Kansas in Lawrence, a co-author on that study. Her work showed that Botai horses were not related to modern horses, hinting at separate domestications by the Botai and Yamnaya. Yet certain practices of the Botai—specifically the way in which they ritually buried slaughtered horses—are shared by other cultures in Asia, hinting that perhaps the hunter-gatherers weren’t as isolated as most have thought, she says.
Whatever happened in the early days of horse husbandry, it’s clear the Yamnaya took advantage of the beasts in ways the Botai never dreamt of. Beginning in the early Bronze Age, the pastoralists used their horses to migrate far and wide.
Traces of west Eurasian genes in Asian populations has been taken as evidence the Yamnaya left a large genetic legacy east of the steppe. Yet Willerslev’s team found little Yamnaya DNA in Central and South Asia—and none in Anatolia. Instead, their data suggest the Namazga, a group of herders living south of the steppe around 3300 B.C.E., before the great Yamnaya migration, were the ones who first contributed west Eurasian genes to Asian populations.
That lack of a genetic legacy may put leading theories for the spread of PIE at risk. The ancient people of Anatolia in modern Turkey, for example, likely spoke Hittite, a very early branch of PIE. But the lack of Yamnaya DNA among the Hittites suggests some other group brought Indo-European to the region—and to Central and South Asia.
The findings are impressive in some ways and frustrating in others, notes Paul Heggarty, a historical linguist at the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History in Jena, Germany. On the one hand, he credits the authors for reconsidering the origins of Hittite in light of the new data. “This is the first time I’ve seen people who have supported the steppe hypothesis … saying, ‘Look, it doesn’t work for Anatolia,’” Heggarty says. Other researchers should take the next step, he adds, and continue searching for the origins of PIE beyond the steppe.
Link: www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/05/these-asian-hunter-gatherers-may-have-been-first-people-domesticate-horses
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2018 16:58:46 GMT -5
Photos from the upcoming Kazakh TV series based on RED SONJA the Hyrkanian!    Sonja and sister Temulin.  Red Sonja training for the Naadam Festival next month.   Erlik! Is that a Cimmerian?  'That way, Red! Quick! He's getting away! What's the matter with you?' "Oh, shut up Temulin." Pics from the Smithsonian TV Series Epic Warrior Women: The Amazons.
Here's a link with some info and video: www.smithsonianchannel.com/videos/the-significance-behind-ancient-scythian-tattoos/60347
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2018 17:11:02 GMT -5
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Post by Von K on May 12, 2018 2:27:32 GMT -5
Awesome pics Hun. Makes me want to revive my Saka Rauka campaign in Total War.
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Post by buxom9sorceress on May 12, 2018 4:08:11 GMT -5
Dear Hun, thanks for all the pics and info in your topics. thats a huge steppe for any warrior.  |
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Post by Char-Vell on May 12, 2018 7:14:09 GMT -5
Cute girls.
That bow looks a little weird, how accurate is that?
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Post by kemp on May 12, 2018 9:05:19 GMT -5
True, maybe great for the people of the time needing a little peace and equilibrium in their lives, but when the tribes settle down too much it starts to bore us nomad history buffs reading about them centuries later. Thanks for making us aware of some of the movies and tv shows out there Hun. Here is a new Russian movie, I included it because it contains Mongols, and of course I have always associated the Russians with the whole warriors of the steppe tradition, although they have a European medieval streak about them. I agree, the symbiotic nature between the Altaic peoples and the Russian/Slavic peoples is fascinating and also very ancient with a history stretching way back to at least the Hunnic migration.
Kolovrat was initially gonna be a historical movie about the Mongol invasion. For some unknown reason it became a Fantasy movie. The Kazakh Stunt team NOMAD STUNTS worked on Kolovrat, as well as the Russian Viking movie, Conan 2011, Mongol, 47 Ronin, Marco Polo and they even worked on the Ertuğrul Resurrection. Nomad Stunts Demo. I do not think the ancient Uygurs were any more warlike or peaceful than the preceding nomadic tribes of Mongolia. They were sacking the cities of Tang China when the Kaghan converted to Manichaeism. The Uygurs established their capital Ordu-Balik along the Orkhon River in Mongolia (around 20 km north of Karakorum, the later capital of the Mongols). Ordu-Balik proved to be too far from the main trade routes, and the Uygurs fell for the oldest trick in the book when facing an adversary like China; they moved in closer, south of the Gobi leaving the envious tribes north of the Gobi on the steppes of Mongolia to fill the vacuum. By 840 the Kırgız ousted the Uygurs from Mongolia establishing their own nomadic Empire, just like the Uygurs did to the Türks (Gök Türks). I should add, to their credit, the Uygurs were incredibly resilient and adapted to sedentary life well enough. Link for nomad stunts: nomadstunts.com/en/Thanks Kemp. Impressive, all those horsemanship and fighting skills have been utilised in the movie making industry in a most effective way. That visually cool scene towards the end of the video with the warrior riding into the battle with a drawn saber in each hand and cutting down his enemies left and right, wonder where that appeared in. No argument about the relationship between the Altaic and Slavic peoples, especially given the Eurasian locality of both groups, ( eastern Europe and western Asia ). Interesting the note you made about the power vacuum left in the steppes when one nomadic group movesd away from that most strategic position, Kirgiz ousting the Uyghurs. I could not help but notice when reading about the Avars and Huns, that they were displaced in some way by other more powerful groups in the Mongolian/steppes locality, and of course this was a constant theme for centuries. The Eurasian peoples influenced the peoples directly west of them, and those directly east of them. The Khitans themselves were one Mongolian minority that spoke a language similar to that in western Manchuria after their time, and became the founders of the Liao dynasty, and Khitai came to mean China in Turkic, note Cathay from Khitay. The Uyghurs from the Xinjiang region still use the word in that sense. The modern Han Chinese that make up the majority of Chinese do not like the term so much though. ‘Eurasian Influences on Yuan China’  'This book documents the extraordinarily significant transfers and cultural diffusion between the Mongol Yuan Dynasty of China and Central and West Asia, which had a broad impact on Eurasian history in the 13th and 14th centuries. The Yuan era witnessed perhaps the greatest inter-civilisational contacts in world history and has thus begun to attract the attention of both scholars and the general public. This volume offers tangible evidence of the Western and Central Asian influences, via the Mongols, on Chinese, and to a certain extent Korean, medicine, astronomy, navigation, and even foreign relations. Turkic peoples and other Muslims played particularly vital roles in such transmissions. These inter-civilisational relations led to the first precise Western knowledge of East and South Asia and stimulated Europeans to discover new routes to the East. The authors of these essays, specialists in their respective fields, shine a light on these vital exchanges, which anyone interested in the origins of global history will find fascinating' www.amazon.com/Eurasian-Influences-China-Morris-Rossabi/dp/9814459720 |
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Post by kemp on May 12, 2018 9:56:47 GMT -5
Kazakh (Saka-Scythian) Women Warriors.    Excellent photography. |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 11:20:12 GMT -5
Kazakh (Saka-Scythian) Women Warriors. Excellent photography. Sorry, I forgot to add the name of the Photographer: Nikolay Postnikov of Kazakhstan. Here's another one from the same set of photos.  Here's a link to Nikolay's Photo Gallery: postnikov.fineart-portugal.com |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 11:33:45 GMT -5
Cute girls. That bow looks a little weird, how accurate is that? Is that from the TV series or the photos by Nikolay Postnikov? They seem to be faithful reconstructions of the Scythian recurve/composite bow aesthetically, at least from what I have seen from the previous reconstructions - but, admittedly, I'm no expert. |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 11:36:16 GMT -5
Awesome pics Hun. Makes me want to revive my Saka Rauka campaign in Total War. Thanks Von K. |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 11:37:07 GMT -5
Dear Hun, thanks for all the pics and info in your topics. thats a huge steppe for any warrior. Thank you Bux. |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 12:18:38 GMT -5
I agree, the symbiotic nature between the Altaic peoples and the Russian/Slavic peoples is fascinating and also very ancient with a history stretching way back to at least the Hunnic migration.
Kolovrat was initially gonna be a historical movie about the Mongol invasion. For some unknown reason it became a Fantasy movie. The Kazakh Stunt team NOMAD STUNTS worked on Kolovrat, as well as the Russian Viking movie, Conan 2011, Mongol, 47 Ronin, Marco Polo and they even worked on the Ertuğrul Resurrection. Nomad Stunts Demo. I do not think the ancient Uygurs were any more warlike or peaceful than the preceding nomadic tribes of Mongolia. They were sacking the cities of Tang China when the Kaghan converted to Manichaeism. The Uygurs established their capital Ordu-Balik along the Orkhon River in Mongolia (around 20 km north of Karakorum, the later capital of the Mongols). Ordu-Balik proved to be too far from the main trade routes, and the Uygurs fell for the oldest trick in the book when facing an adversary like China; they moved in closer, south of the Gobi leaving the envious tribes north of the Gobi on the steppes of Mongolia to fill the vacuum. By 840 the Kırgız ousted the Uygurs from Mongolia establishing their own nomadic Empire, just like the Uygurs did to the Türks (Gök Türks). I should add, to their credit, the Uygurs were incredibly resilient and adapted to sedentary life well enough. Link for nomad stunts: nomadstunts.com/en/Thanks Kemp. Impressive, all those horsemanship and fighting skills have been utilised in the movie making industry in a most effective way. That visually cool scene towards the end of the video with the warrior riding into the battle with a drawn saber in each hand and cutting down his enemies left and right, wonder where that appeared in. No argument about the relationship between the Altaic and Slavic peoples, especially given the Eurasian locality of both groups, ( eastern Europe and western Asia ). Interesting the note you made about the power vacuum left in the steppes when one nomadic group movesd away from that most strategic position, Kirgiz ousting the Uyghurs. I could not help but notice when reading about the Avars and Huns, that they were displaced in some way by other more powerful groups in the Mongolian/steppes locality, and of course this was a constant theme for centuries. The Eurasian peoples influenced the peoples directly west of them, and those directly east of them. The Khitans themselves were one Mongolian minority that spoke a language similar to that in western Manchuria after their time, and became the founders of the Liao dynasty, and Khitai came to mean China in Turkic, note Cathay from Khitay. The Uyghurs from the Xinjiang region still use the word in that sense. The modern Han Chinese that make up the majority of Chinese do not like the term so much though. ‘Eurasian Influences on Yuan China’ 'This book documents the extraordinarily significant transfers and cultural diffusion between the Mongol Yuan Dynasty of China and Central and West Asia, which had a broad impact on Eurasian history in the 13th and 14th centuries. The Yuan era witnessed perhaps the greatest inter-civilisational contacts in world history and has thus begun to attract the attention of both scholars and the general public. This volume offers tangible evidence of the Western and Central Asian influences, via the Mongols, on Chinese, and to a certain extent Korean, medicine, astronomy, navigation, and even foreign relations. Turkic peoples and other Muslims played particularly vital roles in such transmissions. These inter-civilisational relations led to the first precise Western knowledge of East and South Asia and stimulated Europeans to discover new routes to the East. The authors of these essays, specialists in their respective fields, shine a light on these vital exchanges, which anyone interested in the origins of global history will find fascinating' www.amazon.com/Eurasian-Influences-China-Morris-Rossabi/dp/9814459720I think the clip with the sabres is from Mongol: The Rise to Power of Genghis Khan (2007). www.imdb.com/title/tt0416044/The Mongols still call the Chinese Khitad, after the Khitan tribe, as do the Russians. The ancient Türks (Gök Türks) and Uygurs of Mongolia knew the Chinese as Tabgach, after the Turko-Mongol Tuoba Dynasty of China. The descendants of the Khitan are still extant in north-eastern China and are represented by the Mongolic Daur people: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daur_peopleThanks for the addition of the Eurasian Influences on Yuan China, edited by Morris Rossabi. I read his biography of Khubilai Khan years ago and another book called ' China among Equals'I think, getting old, starting to forget these things these days. Good ol' Morris Rossabi is a bit of an expert on the Mongols, or now more likely Sino-Mongolian relations. |
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Post by kemp on May 12, 2018 20:45:25 GMT -5
Cheers for the link to Mongol: The Rise of Genghis Khan. So the Daurs are the Khitans. I suppose if any Daur end up on this forum they can definitely point to REH's Hyborian Age Khitai and say 'yeah, that's us', although we can include the rest of China in that context |
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